destruction of america

[Logical1]

8 minutes ago, john510 said:

But many idiots are strong and will survive.

Tell that to the Panda's...

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Logical1

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[Duncan]

I wear a mask because it makes me look younger and my hips slimmer...

 

 

[john510]

12 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Farther along in getting over it??? Like it ran rampant and unchecked and 1,500,000 are now dead instead of 230,000, and those above ground already had it and got over it???? That kind of 'getting over it'?? The best reduction in deaths is to slow the transmission down till a vaccine is available.

 

Tell the truth I have no idea about the Wu-Flu but I hear that cars have accidents and using a seat belt helps you survive it. I wear a seat belt.

 

 

Maybe this is the answer to your previous statement about statistics. People would say they followed every guidelines but really they were fondling their masks or just taking them off when they see everyone else doing so.

It has run rampant and unchecked hasn't it ? We also know the death numbers are exaggerated.Some of these Covid victims didn't die from Covid.They died with it.

[Dguy210]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/azar-says-pfizer-very-much-part-of-operation-warp-speed-after-it-distanced-itself-from-trump-program/ar-BB1aUsfE

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/journalists-promoted-the-falsehood-that-pfizer-is-not-part-of-warp-speed-pfizer-says-otherwise

 

"Pfizer is definitely a member of the Trump administration’s Warp Speed program to develop a coronavirus vaccine, despite what certain journalists may say.

Markets surged Monday on the news that the pharmaceutical company is ready to petition the federal government for authorization of a coronavirus vaccine by the end of the month. The vaccine's trial results showed its efficacy as high as 90%.

President Trump cheered the development, saying on social media, “STOCK MARKET UP BIG, VACCINE COMING SOON. REPORT 90% EFFECTIVE. SUCH GREAT NEWS!”

"HUGE NEWS,” added Vice President Mike Pence. “Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by [Trump], [Pfizer] announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers.”

This is where the story takes a weird turn.

On Monday, the New York Times published a report quoting Pfizer head of vaccine research and development Dr. Kathrin Jansen as saying, “We were never part of the Warp Speed … We have never taken any money from the U.S. government or from anyone.”

Though it is true that Pfizer did not take cash from the federal government to develop its vaccine, the company has entered into a $1.95 billion deal with the Trump administration to sell the government 100 million doses of its vaccine if completed by the end of the year.

The New York Times reported in July that Pfizer joined the Warp Speed effort. Pfizer itself announced the partnership in a press release in July.

Pfizer is definitely involved. Jansen’s quote, as presented by the New York Times, is extremely misleading, if not just outright false."

 

https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Pfizer-and-BioNTech-Announce-an-Agreement-with-U.S.-Government-for-up-to-600-Million-Doses-of-mRNA-based-Vaccine-Candidate-Against-SARS-CoV-2/default.aspx

 

 

[datzenmike]

24 minutes ago, john510 said:

It has run rampant and unchecked hasn't it ? We also know the death numbers are exaggerated.Some of these Covid victims didn't die from Covid.They died with it.

 

No it has not. Unchecked would have been doing nothing about it. No closures, no self quarantining, no distancing, no masks, no washing hands. Obviously it could have been worse.

 

Don't know. If you are dying of cancer and are killed by a car accident you died of cancer???? Maybe having cancer weakened your ability to survive the crash?

[Str8jacket]

2 hours ago, Logical1 said:

Myself, I hate wearing a damn mask! However, Doctors, morticians, mechanics😆 ect. wear gloves for a reason... same principal: minimize contact. On a personal note, only the strong should survive. We have too many damn idiots...

Unfortunately lack of intelligence rarely has as big an impact on survival as you'd like. Especially now where we have so many protections in place to save stupid from themselves. 

[dhp123166]

Today is Veterans Day.

 

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

 

Laurence Binyon, " For the Fallen" 1914 

[angliagt]

2 hours ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

           It figures that it's illegal in CA.

[john510]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 

 If you are dying of cancer and are killed by a car accident you died of cancer???? 

Only in an election year.

[Ooph!]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

No it has not. Unchecked would have been doing nothing about it. No closures, no self quarantining, no distancing, no masks, no washing hands. Obviously it could have been worse.

 

Don't know. If you are dying of cancer and are killed by a car accident you died of cancer???? Maybe having cancer weakened your ability to survive the crash?

 

I went looking for the case fatality and per 100 k population death rates for the US, Canada, UK and Sweden.

Country	Confirmed cases	Deaths	Case fatality rate	Deaths per 100,000 population
United States	10,111,077	238,256	2.40%	72.82
Canada	272,034	10,620	3.90%	28.66
Sweden	146,461	6,022	4.10%	59.14
United Kingdom	1,216,747	49,329	4.10%	74.19

 

Sweden didn't have a lock down like we have, kids stayed in school, no gatherings over 50 people

And then there's this

"Sweden’s top coronavirus expert brands facemasks ‘very dangerous’ and says country will NOT make wearing them compulsory"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12450412/sweden-coronavirus-expert-masks-dangerous-not-compulsory/

 

I’m not a statistics kinda guy but considering how poorly Trump was supposed to have handled the pandemic we aren’t all that bad compared to some other 1^st world countries with Nationalized health care.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Ooph!
readability

[datzenmike]

As I stated before.... would you agree to any surgery if the surgeon and surgical team refused to wear masks because they thought they were useless or dangerous??? Course you wouldn't because you know and take it for granted that surgical masks have been used for a hundred years or more. Probably in that time they have found more than enough instances where they have had a beneficial effect. So just because one idiot Swedish 'expert' on corona viruses spouts off that they are dangerous does not make it true. They may not be perfect, far from it, but they are likely better than nothing. I do not expect to take a plane train or bus ride any time soon for any reason, but if forced to, you can god damned well believe I will be wearing a mask.

 

Now the statement was that in the US it 'ran rampant and unchecked didn't it?'and I disagreed with this and said...

 

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

No it has not. Unchecked would have been doing nothing about it. No closures, no self quarantining, no distancing, no masks, no washing hands. Obviously it could have been worse.

 

 

 

It could have been much worse, it could also have been much better. Just like all engineering... it's all based on past tragedies. If something new is tried and nothing has failed it's just that it hasn't happened yet, but when it does there will be analysis and a solution will be found and added in to the next similar project. If we all get through this, the handling of the Wu-Flu will not all be finger pointing but a lesson learned on how to improve and respond to something similar in the future.

[gene knight]

5 hours ago, john510 said:

It has run rampant and unchecked hasn't it ? We also know the death numbers are exaggerated.Some of these Covid victims didn't die from Covid.They died with it.

hospitals get a bonus everytime they say someone died cuz of covid19 when in fact it was something else

[datzenmike]

Yeah I've heard this. Have to say it's probably an urban myth. Along with having covid when you die from cancer but marked as dying from covid. Look at the political climate we're in and who really benefits from spreading this.

[Dguy210]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

As I stated before.... would you agree to any surgery if the surgeon and surgical team refused to wear masks because they thought they were useless or dangerous??? Course you wouldn't because you know and take it for granted that surgical masks have been used for a hundred years or more. Probably in that time they have found more than enough instances where they have had a beneficial effect. So just because one idiot Swedish 'expert' on corona viruses spouts off that they are dangerous does not make it true. They may not be perfect, far from it, but they are likely better than nothing. I do not expect to take a plane train or bus ride any time soon for any reason, but if forced to, you can god damned well believe I will be wearing a mask.

 

Now the statement was that in the US it 'ran rampant and unchecked didn't it?'and I disagreed with this and said...

 

 

It could have been much worse, it could also have been much better. Just like all engineering... it's all based on past tragedies. If something new is tried and nothing has failed it's just that it hasn't happened yet, but when it does there will be analysis and a solution will be found and added in to the next similar project. If we all get through this, the handling of the Wu-Flu will not all be finger pointing but a lesson learned on how to improve and respond to something similar in the future.

Here is the key point "would you agree to any surgery if the surgeon and surgical team refused to wear masks because they thought they were useless or dangerous???" Masks (excluding properly fitted n95 or better) don't protect you from catching really anything. Surgical masks make your breathe exit to the sides of your face approximately and keep you from spraying spittle. So they offer protection TO THE PATIENT.

 

Best numbers I saw last time I looked it up for Covid and I mean absolute best numbers for your protection was less than 5% reduction for surgical masks and effectively none for cloth masks. There may be some more current info out there. On the other hand a properly fitted N95 was extremely effective at stopping YOU from inhaling that (or similarly sized particles/viruses), although you still had a route for infection through the eyes. Current surgical prep can get really crazy on the sterility, masks, faceshields, suits, depends a lot on country and type of surgery and general practice, most likely the patient's immune system, following sterile technique, and the shitload of antibiotics given are really what is most effective.

 

THE ONLY THING THE MASKS DO IS KEEP YOU FROM SPITTING ON PEOPLE AND REDUCE YOUR SPRAY OF SPITTLE SLIGHTLY. 

 

LET ME REPEAT: YOUR MASK DOES ALMOST NOTHING TO PROTECT YOU FROM CATCHING COVID.*

 

Masks on healthy people are fucking as useless as tits on a bull. Masks on an asymptomatic person or pre-symptomatic might slightly reduce transmission (and I mean very slightly).

 

Whether asymptomatic people actually spread covid at all, well the data seems to be mixed on that. CDC can't make up its damn mind and no one wants to publish against guidelines. They presented data that they did not spread then backtracked on that with an announcement when it got press attention, I would guess this change of mind was more for political not scientific reasons. Based on how that type of stuff works in general, I would guesstimate if you are asymptomatic you are less likely to spread as you are: 1. not coughing so less spittle spraying, 2. likely have a low viral titer and less virus to spread.  

 

Masks that have exhale vents do absolutely nothing as they don't redirect anything you are spraying and don't protect you either. 

 

*A properly fitted N95 mask is effective at preventing inhalation of viruses the size of Covid, combined with a faceshield, or better a whole head respirator would be the correct way to protect yourself and along with other PPE is what is used in environments where that is needed, ex: BSL3 labs.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Dguy210

[datzenmike]

I have a box of N95 95% filtering down to0.7? micron but my favorite is a P100 which is 99.97%.

[Mattndew76]

 

[Dguy210]

32 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I have a box of N95 95% filtering down to0.7? micron but my favorite is a P100 which is 99.97%.

 

I actually pulled up the original research on mask effectiveness (they used a similarly sized harmless virus) back when this all started. Result was once you hit N95 or better (N99, N100 etc..) the extra effectiveness didn't really make a difference. Only difference was in comfort and airflow for the user. P series is same filtration plus certain chemicals so yeah that is a damn good mask.

 

The BSL3 for certain human pathogens uses fitted N95 respirators (powered usually) and gowns (BSL3+ or higher is the bunny suits for the extremely nasty stuff).

[ratpatrol66]

9 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

Just for the record, I have worn the mask since it was mandated and I other than being annoyed by it at times, I don't care. 

 

But it does suck when you make eye contact with a girl and they can't see you smile. But some can read eyes! LOL! 

 

I don't smile much but I'm just happy they can't see me with my tongue hanging out my mouth flicking around like a snake!

[john510]

7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

As I stated before.... would you agree to any surgery if the surgeon and surgical team refused to wear masks because they thought they were useless or dangerous??? Course you wouldn't because you know and take it for granted that surgical masks have been used for a hundred years or more. Probably in that time they have found more than enough instances where they have had a beneficial effect. So just because one idiot Swedish 'expert' on corona viruses spouts off that they are dangerous does not make it true. They may not be perfect, far from it, but they are likely better than nothing. I do not expect to take a plane train or bus ride any time soon for any reason, but if forced to, you can god damned well believe I will be wearing a mask.

 

Now the statement was that in the US it 'ran rampant and unchecked didn't it?'and I disagreed with this and said...

 

 

It could have been much worse, it could also have been much better. Just like all engineering... it's all based on past tragedies. If something new is tried and nothing has failed it's just that it hasn't happened yet, but when it does there will be analysis and a solution will be found and added in to the next similar project. If we all get through this, the handling of the Wu-Flu will not all be finger pointing but a lesson learned on how to improve and respond to something similar in the future.

Cutting a body open for surgery is a little bit different than breathing air into your lungs.

[Ooph!]

looks like the Destruction and Covid threads are at a merge.

Research is sparse on masking I limited the search time to November 2019 and this result showed up published in 2015.

The gist is masks and shields do stop spittle / sneeze droplets and protect the users face from fluids but other wise they wear them because it's just the way it's always done, seriously they do it because someone believes it helps not because of evidence.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

Edited November 12, 2020 by Ooph!

[Str8jacket]

22 minutes ago, Ooph! said:

seriously they do it because someone believes it helps not because of evidence!

Like voting Democrat? 🤪

[flyerdan]

Hospitals get more for covid deaths....

Imagine if you will, a tire shop gets $6 to fix a flat.  Someone comes along and says they will give them $39 for every flat caused by a porcupine.  They also state that they will take your word for the numbers without checking the stats, and most definitely won't ask about that big fucking bucket of screws and nails between the tire machines.

Also imagine that every tire shop is ran by a cabal that cares only about maximizing profits, and couldn't care less about customer service or community standing.

Statistically, you'll see a marked increase in porcupine related tire failures, but surprisingly no correlating data on why we're not up to our asses in dead porcupines.

[datzenmike]

Wouldn't you also need the participation of a crooked corner and any number of staff and officials???? Getting caught at this would be a disaster. 

 

And just because.... why are they paid more for a Wu-Flu death????

 

13 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

 

I actually pulled up the original research on mask effectiveness (they used a similarly sized harmless virus) back when this all started. Result was once you hit N95 or better (N99, N100 etc..) the extra effectiveness didn't really make a difference. Only difference was in comfort and airflow for the user. P series is same filtration plus certain chemicals so yeah that is a damn good mask.

 

The BSL3 for certain human pathogens uses fitted N95 respirators (powered usually) and gowns (BSL3+ or higher is the bunny suits for the extremely nasty stuff).

 

The P100 is more comfortable and seals way better than the P95 but looks dorky

 

 

7 hours ago, john510 said:

Cutting a body open for surgery is a little bit different than breathing air into your lungs.

 

As entry by co-vid is mostly through the lungs this is pretty much the same.

[Dguy210]

Cutting a body open for surgery is a little bit different than breathing air into your lungs.

 

28 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Wouldn't you also need the participation of a crooked corner and any number of staff and officials???? Getting caught at this would be a disaster. 

 

And just because.... why are they paid more for a Wu-Flu death????

 

 

The P100 is more comfortable and seals way better than the P95 but looks dorky

 

 

 

As entry by co-vid is mostly through the lungs this is pretty much the same.

 

 

Quote

As entry by co-vid is mostly through the lungs this is pretty much the same.

 

Sort of but not exactly.

As far as contact with an internal body surface or mucus membrane and such; yes definitely the same. Contact with the eyes is another infection route. 

The big difference is volume of airflow over the surface and therefore risk of infection. 

 

Think of it like paint drying that you want to keep dust out of (dust=virus and paint=wet tissue surface).  A small puddle of paint sitting in a room with still air has less chance of dust falling into the surface as it is less surface area available and the amount of air moving over the surface is very small. Now compare that to a whole wall covered in paint that you are blowing a fan at. Lots of surface area and lots of air (and therefore dust) moving over that area, so much greater chance.

 

Note: I am ignoring a few minor variables about surgery, i.e., medical staff are less likely to be infected as they get checked regularly and are already observing sterile protocol and dressed to the max (rarely any visible skin, less likely to touch with ungloved hands or breathe on the patient) vs. the outside world which has a ton of other things going on.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Dguy210