destruction of america

[Mattndew76]

1 minute ago, BrothersGarage said:

Do you ever do research before you say YOUR OPINIONS?
 

https://www.usacarry.com/wisconsin-open-carry.html

What are you doing if you're illegally carrying a weapon? You're brandishing.

 

There is also a Wisconsin legal exemption that is also in play as mentioned in the Colion Noir video.

[Mattndew76]

5 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

Yup, just as I thought. lol I literally provided links to the things that he did and you still wanna stick your fingers in your ears and go "lah lah lah - i don't see it so it doesn't exist". 🤡🤡🤡

 

You are projecting your bad behavior, but that's cool. 

 

Keep up the insults. You are impossible dude.

 

I'm trying to reason with a person who has already made his views concrete. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Mattndew76

[BrothersGarage]

8 minutes ago, Mattndew76 said:

 

There is also a Wisconsin legal exemption that is also in play as mentioned in the Colion Noir video.

Again that is how that attorney would defend Kyle. Not according to the charges he is facing , you know the "Illegal possession of a firearm" so...actually no.

  

7 minutes ago, Mattndew76 said:

You are projecting your bad behavior, but that's cool. 

 

Keep up the insults. You are impossible dude.

Talk about projection lol. You still avoid point blank questions dude. You can't even debate in good faith. And I never insulted you, I called your your clown comments. 

EDit: I take that back, I did say you were being Obtuse. Sorry if you took that as an insult. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by BrothersGarage

[Draker]

4 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

But he wasn't concealed carrying - he was open carrying - in a state where he was a year too young to be doing so, so he was illegally brandishing. 
 

 

The point, you missed it.

 

I'll spell it out for you.

 

When you study this they clearly talk about when you can and can't use force. What to expect when you use force. What to do when you use force. If you have the option to retreat, that should be the #1 option. Depending on the state, and your location you might have other options, for example if you are in your own home. If you believe your life is in danger you have the option to use deadly force. There can not be an escalation of force. If a child comes after you with a plastic bat, you can't pull a gun. Even if you are completely justified, you will likely still go to jail. It doesn't mean you will be convicted, it you may be charged for a crime. If your target does survive, you will be sued.
 

Now, can you draw any parallels to that scenario to what the videos seem to indicate happened in the video?

 

1. Are there any videos of the shooter chasing, harassing, or approaching his victims or any other person on that night?

2. Are there videos of him being chased?

3. Was he under attack in any of the videos?

4. Were any of his attackers armed with same same lethal force?

 

 

Of course, if you are not for 2A you probably don't agree with any of this and that's okay. But that is the root of the case and where the lawyers will battle just as they have for years and years.

[Draker]

13 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

EDit: I take that back, I did say you were being Obtuse. Sorry if you took that as an insult. 

 

Also the clown emoji's don't help your argument.

 

 

[Mattndew76]

2 hours ago, BrothersGarage said:

Doesn't justify his actions, nor does it addresses the fact that he was 17 - illegally brandishing - and fled the scene of 2 shootings in which he caused 2 deaths (what he's being charged for).

Side note: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Three 3 dudes that got shot made dumbass decisions that ended their lives - just like I said in my initial post, bunch of dumb-asses all around. 

 

Brandishing:

 

To wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.

 

Kyle is not being charged for Brandishing under Wisconsin law.

 

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/20

 

If you do a 941.20 word search in the prosecution .pdf filing nothing comes up. 

 

So he didn't commit the crime of Brandishing. 

 

He also doesn't have pending charges dealing with Fleeing the scene. 

 

All his pending charges have to do with the use of the weapon. You even posted the link contradicting your assertion in the quote, and these are the things to which i said are absolutely false statements of conjecture.

 

the only thing you have correct in the quote is that he was involved in the death of 2 people, but under the law he is not the cause.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Mattndew76

[BrothersGarage]

38 minutes ago, Draker said:

 

The point, you missed it.

 

I'll spell it out for you.

 

When you study this they clearly talk about when you can and can't use force. What to expect when you use force. What to do when you use force. If you have the option to retreat, that should be the #1 option. Depending on the state, and your location you might have other options, for example if you are in your own home. If you believe your life is in danger you have the option to use deadly force. There can not be an escalation of force. If a child comes after you with a plastic bat, you can't pull a gun. Even if you are completely justified, you will likely still go to jail. It doesn't mean you will be convicted, it you may be charged for a crime. If your target does survive, you will be sued.
 

Now, can you draw any parallels to that scenario to what the videos seem to indicate happened in the video?

 

1. Are there any videos of the shooter chasing, harassing, or approaching his victims or any other person on that night?

2. Are there videos of him being chased?

3. Was he under attack in any of the videos?

4. Were any of his attackers armed with same same lethal force?

 

 

Of course, if you are not for 2A you probably don't agree with any of this and that's okay. But that is the root of the case and where the lawyers will battle just as they have for years and years.

Again, as I said before, you can argue that the first guy was in self defense. However from there he flees the scene of where he was the shooter making him a criminal. From there on - self defense does not matter, it's self preservation. Check out what his charges are dude but to answer your questions. 

1. Doesn't matter in context of the discussion.
2. Yep. at least 4 of what I saw with 2 different scenarios captured on film.

3. He was surely threatened in the first video where you could argue self defense. Once he was fleeing a scene of the first shooting, there he was clearly under attack but that's also a case of people trying to disarm him - seeing as he just shot someone and fled the scene, so..pretty much everyone there are playing stupid games.

4. Sure, the 3rd person he shot in the arm - after shooting and killing 2 people. 

I am super for 2A - and this kid will only give people excuses to limit guns because of his stupid ass decisions. And the "medic" who had a pistol that got shot in the arm was a felon and should see charges for that too. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by BrothersGarage

[BrothersGarage]

34 minutes ago, Draker said:

Also the clown emoji's don't help your argument.

Probably, but 🤷 the points still stand. 

 

24 minutes ago, Mattndew76 said:

 

Brandishing:

 

To wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.

 

Kyle is not being charged for Brandishing under Wisconsin law.

 

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/20

 

If you do a 941.20 word search in the prosecution .pdf filing nothing comes up. 

 

So he didn't commit the crime of Brandishing. 

 

He also doesn't have pending charges dealing with Fleeing the scene. 

 

All his pending charges have to do with the use of the weapon. You even posted the link contradicting your assertion in the quote, and these are the things to which i said are absolutely false statements of conjecture.

 

the only thing you have correct in the quote is that he was involved in the death of 2 people, but under the law he is not the cause.

 

You're right, he isn't being charged with brandishing, the 1 of the 5 charges that he faces is "Illegal possession of a firearm" which would imply that my statement about him being underage and illegally possession a firearm is correct. Was the weapon in full view? Was presence of the weapon made known? (Sounds like it from the shot that went off before the 3 shots that went off taking the bald dudes life and the guy recording says "oh shit, they shootin' from the Reuters video). Now I don't think he waved it around to intimidate but what would you call a warning shot? 

* First degree reckless murder: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/i/02
- Whoever recklessely causes the death of another human being under circumstances which show utter disregard for human life. Clearly the skateboard dude.

* 2 counts First Degree Reckless Endagement - https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/iv/30

- Whoever reckless endagers another's safety under circumstances which show utter disregard for human life  - Most likely the shot at the guy with the flying kick / and most likely the warning shot

* First degree intentional murder - https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/i/01
- Whoever causes the death of another human being with the intetnt to kill that person or another - I would think this is the bald dude that he shot in the head. This should be a case of self defense.

* First degree attempted murder - https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/i/01
Attempting or causing the death of another while committing or attempting to commit a serious violent crime - Likely The "medic" felon that aimed a gun at him and he shot in the arm. 

* Illegal possession of a firearm - https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/iii/29
In this case it would be a "Violent Felony" Because he was underage and allegedly used it to commit the above infractions. 

Pretty clearly based on the charges in front of him that he is the cause of those deaths. Now it will be up to someone like the youtuble lawyer to see if he doesn't see 80 years in prison for being charged as an adult: https://www.grgblaw.com/wisconsin-trial-lawyers/wisconsin-laws-and-policies-for-juvenile-offenders-charged-as-adults

 

[Draker]

12 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

1. Doesn't matter in context of the discussion.
2. Yep. at least 4 of what I saw with 2 different scenarios captured on film.

3. He was surely threatened in the first video where you could argue self defense. Once he was fleeing a scene of the first shooting, there he was clearly under attack but that's also a case of people trying to disarm him - seeing as he just shot someone and fled the scene, so..pretty much everyone there are playing stupid games.

4. Sure, the 3rd person he shot in the arm - after shooting and killing 2 people.

 

1. no evidence he was the aggressor. At least that we've seen yet.

2. point of agreement.

3. It's not clear if he was fleeing. In the first video he was being chased and shot, ran away, then returned. He was told to call 911 by a person from the media attending to the person who was shot. He got his phone out and then it's not clear if he called 911 or not. I don't think I can render an opinion on this. It's possible he started to call for help and was chased down by others until we saw the second incident. No way to prove this either way without more evidence.

 

The second incident could have been others trying to neutralize an attacker, which is the point I think you are trying to make. We can't assume their intentions, their lawyers are going to argue this point. You could also view this as him being attacked further, or as an extension of the first incident. I tend to lean this way, but that is opinion. It doesn't look good with felons impersonating medical personal in possession of a weapon in the middle of a riot (as you mentioned). That's not enough though, gotta wait for more facts to come out.

 

4. Same lethal force would back his ability to use his weapon in the situation. Lot of other factors here, but his attackers weren't throwing rocks and he returned fire is the point.

 

 

 

It actually appears we agree on more than I thought. 👍

 

[67_1600]

I think a point that's been missed in all of this discussion is that, at least to me, it seemed as though he was running directly towards the police when he fell down. It looks like there were flashing lights at that intersection he was running towards. Once he got up, he continued in that direction raising his hands when he got closer. With an angry mob around me and knowing where the police were, I'd be running that direction rather than just standing around waiting for them to get to me.

[bottomwatcher]

I feel bad for the kid. He was trying to be helpful and lessen the destruction and chaos in the area. Why were the 3 felons there? I doubt they have a deep seated desire to show there support for Black people. My guess would be to loot and steal in all the chaos. A goofy little fat kid spoiling there fun might be the reason the flaming debris was thrown at him. These guys were scumbags convicted of a jury of there peers or guilty pleas for hurting other people. When it is sexual crimes the victim carrys emotional damage the rest of there life. From this old rednecks view good shooting Kid.

[john510]

14 hours ago, BrothersGarage said:

 

I know, I pointed that out in my comments. There is a better video of the first incident where you see more clearly the bald guy chasing him, and throw something, an then the video gets shaky and the guy gets shot. Then you can hear him on the phone saying "I shot someone" and running away from the scene. 

 

And? He was still underage for open carrying his weapon in Kenosha, fled the scene of one shooting, shot 2 more people and fled the scene of a 2nd shooting.

You keep pointing out how he fled the scene.It looks like he was trying to flee before he even pulled the trigger on anybody.They chased him.He shot,do you then sit and wait for the police to show up ? He also called it in (the shooting).He was attacked again while running.What was he supposed to do ? He'd be dead if he sat and waited for the cops.The others would be alive and not missing a bicep if they wouldn't have chased a guy with a gun.What kind of an idiot does that ? 

[thisismatt]

 

[john510]

Never bring a skateboard to a gunfight.

[BrothersGarage]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

You keep pointing out how he fled the scene.It looks like he was trying to flee before he even pulled the trigger on anybody.They chased him.

Yup, because he fled the scene - it's literally on 2 videos after he shot the guy he was pacing back and forth and then fled the scene. That's literally what happened. Actually, it looks like he was being chased by one person and shot in self defense. Then he fled that scene, yes people chased him, but it's clear that they were trying to stop him from leaving the scene of a shooting. 
 

Quote

He shot,do you then sit and wait for the police to show up ?

YES. That is EXACTLY what you do. You call 911 and report the shooting. When the cops arrive, you lay your weapon down on the ground and listen to their commands, and give your side of the story. You will most likely be released right there and be given your weapon back at the scene. 
 

Quote

He also called it in (the shooting).

We don't know that yet. All we know is he picked up the phone and can be heard saying "I shot someone" as he flees the scene.

Although, I would be willing to bet you are correct - that he was likely calling 911. 
 

Quote

He was attacked again while running.What was he supposed to do ?

One dude in a white shirt can be seen taking a swing at him and it appears that he missed while the kid was running away - from the scene where he just shot someone in the head. He was attacked when he tripped and fell by that dude that did the flying kick, and the skateboard dude he pops in the chest before being actively engaged by an equal threat (felon medic with the pistol that takes one to the arm). People were trying to detain him and take his gun away. At that point there isn't self defense, he's acting for self preservation - he's a criminal who has fled the scene of a shooting which he was involved in. 
 

Quote

He'd be dead if he sat and waited for the cops. The others would be alive and not missing a bicep if they wouldn't have chased a guy with a gun.What kind of an idiot does that ? 

Great deal of conjecture there. Want a little conjecture? If he hadn't of fled the scene and tried to tend to the guy with his stupid little medic pack that he had, or waited for the cops he wouldn't have been chased and shoot more people and be likely able to use self defense on the single shooting instead of facing 5 felony charges so....a pretty big idiot does that.

Lots of people try to play hero, which is what I think they were trying to do. They fucked around and found out real quick that if someone is can shoot someone, they can do that shit again. If someone is shooting you're supposed to run to escape, if you can't escape you take cover and hide, if you can't do that then you defend yourself. As I've said multiple times, those 3 dudes that got shot were dumbasses, but so was the kid. Series of bad decision after bad decision after bad decision by everyone involved. Best case scenario for this kid is to end up like George Zimmerman - off on all charges but his life is ruined but good luck with the charges he faces. 

[thisismatt]

40 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

they were trying to stop him from leaving the scene

 

 

[john510]

38 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

Yup, because he fled the scene - it's literally on 2 videos after he shot the guy he was pacing back and forth and then fled the scene. That's literally what happened. Actually, it looks like he was being chased by one person and shot in self defense. Then he fled that scene, yes people chased him, but it's clear that they were trying to stop him from leaving the scene of a shooting. 
 

 

Now assume he stays at the scene,those that were trying to stop him would have done what ? Peacefully place him under citizens arrest or beat him to death with the various weapons these protesters carry with them ? My guess is he'd be dead from massive trauma to his whole body.

[BrothersGarage]

6 minutes ago, john510 said:

Now assume he stays at the scene,those that were trying to stop him would have done what ? Peacefully place him under citizens arrest or beat him to death with the various weapons these protesters carry with them ? My guess is he'd be dead from massive trauma to his whole body.

Couldn't tell you, because it didn't happen.

But no they couldn't place him under citizens arrest. They could if he fled though. Various weapons the protesters were carrying with them? What are you even talking about? The plastic bag with junk in it that the first guy threw at him or the skateboard one person had? Be more sensational? 

[Mattndew76]

Jesus........

[BrothersGarage]

16 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

 

Maybe the felon medic that drew the pistol. 

[gene knight]

the media is corrupt and are fueling the fires to incite more violence. they don't care about america, they only care about ratings

Edited August 30, 2020 by gene knight

[a.d._510_n_ok]

16 hours ago, BrothersGarage said:

Doesn't justify his actions, nor does it addresses the fact that he was 17 - illegally brandishing - and fled the scene of 2 shootings in which he caused 2 deaths (what he's being charged for).

Side note: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Three 3 dudes that got shot made dumbass decisions that ended their lives - just like I said in my initial post, bunch of dumb-asses all around. 

 

 

well, at least one legal eagle of note disagrees :)

[BrothersGarage]

Just now, a.d._510_n_ok said:

 

 

well, at least one legal eagle of note disagrees 🙂

So that negates the charges that he will face? An attorney willing to do what they see as pro-bono? 

[wayno]

OK, lets look at this video.

 

Let us start with the headline, "Video shows Kenosha shooting suspect running with rifle, shooting into crowd", this is already shown to not be true, Kyle was not shooting into a crowd, he was shooting people attacking him, you can hear other shots going off also in this video that are not coming from Kyle, yet the title stands that whoever originally posted the video on the internet is trying to make people think he was shooting into crowds, this person should be held accountable for posting misinformation, why would they do that, maybe they hate guns because of misinformation that they were spoon fed, it's amazing how easily some people can be brain washed being spoon fed.

 

Let us look at the people attacking Kyle this night during this video, 3 of them appear are felons, how many more are felons, did these 3 know each other(Organized group?), were any of them the ones that were telling the crowds in the area that he shot that guy and to get him trying to incite others into action with half truths so that they didn't get shot, yes Kyle did shoot a guy that was attacking him, maybe they were pissed off that one of their own(friend) was shot, again how many others were felons as it appears only felons got shot.

 

It was said that after Kyle shot Rosenbaum he stopped and called the police and told them he had shot someone, this appears to be confirmed by the video, I can see him in the video with him holding something to the side of his head, then it has been said that someone yelled he had shot that guy(Rosenbaum) and to get him, that is when Kyle appears to have started running again(it appears he started running towards the police lights down the road), they were chasing him saying to get that guy, one person hit him from behind(was that one a felon?), soon after Kyle tripped and ended up on the ground and then the shit storm happened, it appears only felons were shot, of which Gaige(last one shot) had a handgun which could put him back in custody, it appears only vermin were shot or killed and I expect them vermin would not have stuck around for the police to arrive if they had killed Kyle.

 

There are people(tainted media sources) that would have you believe things using misinformation, they have no use for courts or judges as it does not promote their agenda

 

[Mattndew76]

2 minutes ago, BrothersGarage said:

So that negates the charges that he will face? An attorney willing to do what they see as pro-bono? 

Did he say it negates anything?