paradime Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, datzenmike said: Seems to me that if you stop your own production eventually you have to buy it from somewhere else in the world. Well if the US didn't produce more than twice the oil it uses, that might be the case. The fact is, we produce 14.8 billion barrels annually, and use 6.6 billion. The oil supply isn't the issue at the pump, it's the slow opening of refineries that were taken off line during the pandemic. Quote Link to comment
john510 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, paradime said: Okay, explain how that has anything to do with the price of gas at the pump today. Are you serious ? Quote Link to comment
Cardinal Grammeter Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 I think the State of California is by its existence a monopoly of the prime west coast real estate and should be broken up by the Fed. What if CA was ALL of the west coast? I wonder what kind of shenanigans would go one. In fact, that would be a great premise for a novel. Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 51 minutes ago, paradime said: Well if the US didn't produce more than twice the oil it uses, that might be the case. The fact is, we produce 14.8 billion barrels annually, and use 6.6 billion. The oil supply isn't the issue at the pump, it's the slow opening of refineries that were taken off line during the pandemic. Alright, I'll play. Please provide the source for these numbers "...(W)e (USA) produce 14.8 billion barrels annually, and use 6.6 billion." Quote Link to comment
Dav Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, datzenmike said: Seems to me that if you stop your own production eventually you have to buy it from somewhere else in the world. But - how many of the facts are not fake news? I count one. He stopped keystone. For the other two, stopping fracking is bullshit- he did not do that; and for halting drilling permits, maybe partly true up in the Arctic NWR (but that is a universal black n white statement n he didn’t stop all drilling permits so mostly fake). Last fact - whose oil was running through keystone? You got it - Canadia? So that was not going to be US oil. Was keystone oil going going to be refined in US? No, it weren’t - it were going outside US for that. It was just gonna flow through the US. Go figure. Doing those three things would cause prices to be higher in US. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Why the fuck would you send oil by pipe to send elsewhere???? We could do that ourselves. It was likely heading to the refineries in Texas. WTF knows? Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Dav said: But - how many of the facts are not fake news? I count one. He stopped keystone. For the other two, stopping fracking is bullshit- he did not do that; and for halting drilling permits, maybe partly true up in the Arctic NWR (but that is a universal black n white statement n he didn’t stop all drilling permits so mostly fake). Last fact - whose oil was running through keystone? You got it - Canadia? So that was not going to be US oil. Was keystone oil going going to be refined in US? No, it weren’t - it were going outside US for that. It was just gonna flow through the US. Go figure. Doing those three things would cause prices to be higher in US. You will forgive, if I reiterate the request for source material. I would ask for such confirmation of any claim that flows against common knowledge, not for esteem of common knowledge, which often lacks, rather for a baseline; a fixed point from where to launch. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Who knows. We're arguing over stupid shit. Nothing can be known for sure it's true. Bring on the memes, they are more believable. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, frankendat said: Alright, I'll play. Please provide the source for these numbers "...(W)e (USA) produce 14.8 billion barrels annually, and use 6.6 billion." You'll play? But there's no playing in the destruction of America. We only deal in reality here, right? I realized this flows against what you may hold as "common knowledge", but it's from the US Energy Information Administration. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6 17 hours ago, john510 said: Are you serious ? You sound pretty sure of yourself John. Would you like to explain your position on this? Edited October 7, 2021 by paradime Quote Link to comment
Dav Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 hours ago, frankendat said: You will forgive, if I reiterate the request for source material. I would ask for such confirmation of any claim that flows against common knowledge, not for esteem of common knowledge, which often lacks, rather for a baseline; a fixed point from where to launch. Sure, I’ll forgive. For those of us who don’t follow Ratsun as a main news source, this was and is common knowledge. Oh wait a minut, you were asking me for my source - and not the numbskull who posted that the prez shut down keystone (true dat), stopped drill permits, and stopped fracking. Heres a not true story you’ll never read - “Real estate in all those fracking states (not a slight) has collapsed, house prices are down 85% from last year, all because all the oily covered young men who used to frack with each other no longer do (break my back mountain reference) because the prez has shut down fracking.” Who knew the prez would be against oily young mens - I thought he was a true liberal. See? There was never that story in any news feed, because it did not happen. That’s what they call common sense and mostly common knowledge. Ask that numbskull who posted those three truths for his references and you’ll get nothing, except for the fracking part, which I already agreed was true and correct and he wasn’t crazy about that. Quote Link to comment
bottomwatcher Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just a nit but the keystone pipeline has been in operation since 2012 and still going today. Oil goes from Canada to Texas. The keystone XL was a shortcut section with a larger pipe. Otherwise this has no effect on gas prices. Certain politicians blame prices on this and their followers believe them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 On the internet you can find what ever proof you are looking for. Getting others to believe your truth, well, that's another matter. It's basically a waste of time to think that you can change another's mind or position with argument, even logical argument. We believe what we believe. Change of belief moves at a glacier pace, there is no eureka moment unless your position is already precarious. Who waltzes through life conscious of their precarious beliefs? When our beliefs are questioned we hold on to them even tighter. My beliefs in a lot of things has been sorely shaken in the last 4 or 5 years. Truth, I'm sure is theoretically out there, but a great evil has plastered over it with bullshit to such a depth that for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist except as a theory. 3 Quote Link to comment
Dav Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said: Just a nit but the keystone pipeline has been in operation since 2012 and still going today. Oil goes from Canada to Texas. The keystone XL was a shortcut section with a larger pipe. Otherwise this has no effect on gas prices. Certain politicians blame prices on this and their followers believe them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline That is great news! I suppose I’m watching the wrong news feed. I suppose I should take back what I wrote to show a source two tings n now ask for proof o three. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 My theory on gas prices holds two truths as a constant. 1st, if you want to know what drives an administration's energy policies, look at who's stuffing money into their pockets. 2nd, if you want to know why sheeple hold a fixed position one way or the other, look no further than the BS hyperbolic marketing both parties are using to sell their corporate donor's long term interests. I have no interest in arguing which is right or wrong, because I don't chose to live in Myopia. And yes, I accept full responsibility for my open minded opinion on this matter. Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline. Halting NEW drilling permits is a pointless argument when you consider oil companies have backlogs of existing permits that will keep them busy until dooms day. Granted, Biden's Keystone "XL" shut down may have an impact on oil supplies a decade from now. Oil markets don’t react to potential longterm effects like this in real time, because there's no way of knowing where oil supply/demand will be 10 years from now. Oil markets react when hurricanes disrupt the immediate oil supply, not when meteorologists announce predictions of a 90-150% increase in hurricanes over the next decade. I see it this way, if halting Keystone expansion is why gas prices are stupid high right now, then why did gas almost double in price between May 2020 and Dec 2020 when Trump had KS fast tracked? It's because oil/gas supply doesn't have the ability to bounce back in real time. Oil shipments and refining capacity don't remain a constant, and just like when someone pumps the brakes on the highway, shit backs up to a crawl behind it. Oil markets react sharply to fluctuating demand along with the potential for sags in the supply chain, so prices rose sharply in 2020 when the economy started reopening. That’s also why oil and gasoline prices are so F'n high today, because new demand is outpacing the supply chan's ability to accelerate and meet it. Look and you'll see the same supply and demand issues are pushing up prices in base metals, lumber, cotton, oats, sugar, microchips, etc. And all of it associated with Covid-19's negative impacts on our economy, aka the flow of goods on the US/world economic highway. Why traffic and the markets take so God damned long to recover, your guess is as good as mine. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Dav Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, paradime said: My theory on gas prices holds two truths as a constant. 1st, if you want to know what drives an administration's energy policies, look at who's stuffing money into their pockets. 2nd, if you want to know why sheeple hold a fixed position one way or the other, look no further than the BS hyperbolic marketing both parties are using to sell their corporate donor's long term interests. I have no interest in arguing which is right or wrong, because I don't chose to live in Myopia. And yes, I accept full responsibility for my open minded opinion on this matter. Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline. Halting NEW drilling permits is a pointless argument when you consider oil companies have backlogs of existing permits that will keep them busy until dooms day. Granted, Biden's Keystone "XL" shut down may have an impact on oil supplies a decade from now. Oil markets don’t react to potential longterm effects like this in real time, because there's no way of knowing where oil supply/demand will be 10 years from now. Oil markets react when hurricanes disrupt the immediate oil supply, not when meteorologists announce predictions of a 90-150% increase in hurricanes over the next decade. I see it this way, if halting Keystone expansion is why gas prices are stupid high right now, then why did gas almost double in price between May 2020 and Dec 2020 when Trump had KS fast tracked? It's because oil/gas supply doesn't have the ability to bounce back in real time. Oil shipments and refining capacity don't remain a constant, and just like when someone pumps the brakes on the highway, shit backs up to a crawl behind it. Oil markets react sharply to fluctuating demand along with the potential for sags in the supply chain, so prices rose sharply in 2020 when the economy started reopening. That’s also why oil and gasoline prices are so F'n high today, because new demand is outpacing the supply chan's ability to accelerate and meet it. Look and you'll see the same supply and demand issues are pushing up prices in base metals, lumber, cotton, oats, sugar, microchips, etc. And all of it associated with Covid-19's negative impacts on our economy, aka the flow of goods on the US/world economic highway. Why traffic and the markets take so God damned long to recover, your guess is as good as mine. Fracking is also for oil - from the ever reliable Wikipedia: 2 Quote Link to comment
a.d._510_n_ok Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Suspect in Arlington, Texas School Shooting Released From Jail on $75K Bond https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/suspect-in-arlington-texas-school-shooting-released-from-jail-on-2475k-bond/ar-AAPfvlL Teachers Unions Call on Senate to Pass Gun Legislation After Texas High School Shooting https://www.newsweek.com/teachers-unions-call-senate-pass-gun-legislation-after-texas-high-school-shooting-1636661 Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dav said: Fracking is also for oil - from the ever reliable Wikipedia: All true. However, according to the Independent Petroleum Association of America, since 1947 (84 yr) fracking has produced a grand total of 7 billion barrels of oil, and 600 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. So it's safe to say "Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline." https://www.ipaa.org/fracking/ Edited October 7, 2021 by paradime Quote Link to comment
angliagt Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Gas just went up 15 cents a gallon.It's still under $3 - $2.999. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, angliagt said: Gas just went up 15 cents a gallon.It's still under $3 - $2.999. Shit, it's well over $4.50 a gal for regular here in tax happy NorCal. Is this your observation, or can you define those numbers in terms of a specific location, over what period of time, data to support it? Quote Link to comment
john510 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, paradime said: You'll play? But there's no playing in the destruction of America. We only deal in reality here, right? I realized this flows against what you may hold as "common knowledge", but it's from the US Energy Information Administration. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6 You sound pretty sure of yourself John. Would you like to explain your position on this? You're saying Government policies don't have an effect on oil prices ? I guess you're right.What was i thinking when i believed Newsom's latest gas tax hike increased the cost of a gallon by .12 cents ? Or that underground holding tank fee of .02 cents on every gallon.It's simply just supply and demand.Those great prices we had under Trump were all just coincidence.Biden gets elected and within 2 months we're paying a dollar more,more coincidence.And from the other post ? when did gas almost double in price while Trump was still in office ? How did i miss that ? I fill up a tank twice a week. Edited October 7, 2021 by john510 1 Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, paradime said: All true. However, according to the Independent Petroleum Association of America, since 1947 (84 yr) fracking has produced a grand total of 7 billion barrels of oil, and 600 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. So it's safe to say "Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline." https://www.ipaa.org/fracking/ The first "fracking" that I am aware of occurred in Western Colorado when the AEC lowered an old army [Honest John ?] atomic warhead down a well and detonated it. Atoms for Peace it was called. After a short while to let the cavern settle, they drilled into the site, Good gas flow but it was all highly radioactive. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 I remember a popular Mechanics? Something back in the '50s suggesting a nuclear explosion could maybe used to dampen or destroy hurricanes before they got too destructive. Quote Link to comment
john510 Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, datzenmike said: I remember a popular Mechanics? Something back in the '50s suggesting a nuclear explosion could maybe used to dampen or destroy hurricanes before they got too destructive. No,that was Trump's idea. 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 If...maaaybe, you could take the newcular internally, like inside, the hurricane...it could do good things...great things really. The best things. This is what I've heard...what I've been told, by very smart...the smartest people...really Quote Link to comment
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