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Cardinal Grammeter

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    East of Pittsburgh PA
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    1974 620

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  1. Time Left: 28 days and 9 hours

    • WANTED
    • USED

    The fan diameter is 35cm, so the opening should be at least 37cm NOTE there is a shroud with an opening of 35cm which probably is used with a 33cm L16 fan. Condition should be used. Shabby condition preferred since for work truck.


    Jeannette, Pennsylvania - US

  2. Grinding is always an option. But if there is only one L16/18 shroud and its opening is 35cm, how can that be proper for the 350mm L18 fan? I've measured my fan and it is basically 14" Are you absolutely sure there is just one shroud for the L16 and l18 - that those 2 part numbers are the same part?
  3. There is a guy selling a "L16/18 Shroud" in Australia (link below) for something like $75 shipped which isn't that bad. However in the description he states the diameter of the opening as 35 cm which results in zero clearance with the L18 350mm fan diameter. But does the fan actually fit in the hole or is it completely "out of the hole?" If the 330mm L16 fan is in the 350mm hole, wouldn't a broken motor mount damage the shroud/fan? It also looks like the shroud is much shorter (stays closer to the radiator than the L20B shroud): Copied and pasted from the ad: BRAND NEW NISSAN DATSUN 620 L16 / L18 ENGINE RADIATOR FAN SURROUND/SHROUD 35cm DIAMETER HOLE 25CM SHORT HOLE CENTRES 47.7CM LONG HOLE CENTRES Here is the link which won't last forever: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144038717886?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Db6e8ec4e1fdc4194bc9b1d3c8f44e845%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D133753324661%26itm%3D144038717886%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A9144f79e-167a-11ec-801b-5a5d18c4898a|parentrq%3Aebbcc47017b0a7b8bc868b3ffffea4f4|iid%3A1
  4. I'll bet they did that to get that fan clutch in there. The fact that they had the Tropical Fan suggests the initial setup was marginal as far as cooling. I wonder if anyone has ever seen a Tropical Fan? Here is a pic of the L20B radiator and shroud in my 74:
  5. Interesting, I put a L20B aluminum plastic tank Advance Auto radiator in my 74 L18 w/o a fan clearance problem. However the L20B shroud had to be notched to clear the distributor and top shaved to not rub on top radiator hose. If they moved the radiator forward, my shroud interferences might have been eliminated?
  6. For the L16 and L18, I found the upper radiator hose under ENGINE > MANIFOLDS where both the INTAKE and EXHAUST were shown. For some reason the L20B ENGINE > MANIFOLDS only shows the exhaust. There are no L and R arrows to click on to show another pic/view. I could not find the Intake Manifold listing. Not under MANIFOLDS?
  7. RADIATOR: 1 for the L16, L18 and 2 for the L20B SHROUD: 1 for each of the engines FAN: 330mm (13") for L16, 330mm* or 360mm (14.2") EDIT: 350mm (13.8") for L18, 2 for L20B * - ambiguity in the parts manual description, see below: Interchange info: *) L20B radiator will bolt to 74 l18 and earlier but must use L20B Top Radiator Hose (Inlet is on other side) *) L20B shroud is too wide for L16/18 radiator but can be made to work, must be notched to clear distributor, and top ribs shaved down which press against Top Radiator Hose. QUESTION: How to tell L16 vs L18 shrouds apart? It appears it is the fan opening diameter which is not specified. 11 SHROUD-RADIATOR 21475-B5500 7309 1 21475-B7900 7310 7408 1 21475-B8010 7409 1 1 ASSY-RADIATOR 21400-B5500 MANUAL 7408 1 21400-B8002 MANUAL 7409 7707 1 21400-B9800 MANUAL 7708 1 And cooling fans for the L16/18: 15 FAN-COOLING (D=330MM) 21060-A4600 L16,L18 7309 1 21060-N0100 TROPICS 7309 1 FAN-COOLING (D=350MM) 21060-U2000 7310 7408 1 9 ASSY-FAN,COOLING (FOR COOLER) 21060-B8001 OP from 7608 1 ASSY-FAN,COOLING 21060-U6000 L20B 1 TOP RADIATOR HOSES: 18 HOSE-WATER 14056-23001 L16 1 16 HOSE-WATER,INLET TO PIPE 14056-23001 L18 1 L20B could not find. L16 & L18 show radiator hose under Manifolds but L20B does not have the Intake Manifold under Manifolds.
  8. I sure hope you're right but I see you are in CA and not the Rust Belt. I think it's the salt: I know that with cars from WV where they do not use salt, you can remove brake line nuts like they were new even when severely rusted - in Pittsburgh where they use salt, rusted brake lines could never be R&R'd for a wheel cylinder replacement. The combo Studebaker used did not always work as intended. I believe what happened was the stud still rusted and the rust would eat up the clearance between nut and stud and then begin to further expand "locking" the nut. I do remember the studs pulling the threads out of the nuts. My solution in early 70's was Never Seez and steel nuts after a friend of mine turned me on to the product - he used it when maintenancing water treatment plants and raved about it. We'll know one way or another - I plan to do the job first of October when I can tolerate some downtime if things go sideways.
  9. UPDATE: PARTS ORDERED: Ordered the 1.5 304 tubes from Summit. There was an issue that although "free" shipping over $100, they still wanted to charge for Oversize on the tubing. However, Stainless Works which is the manufacturer of that tubing, ships for free, so Summit matched that. Cost me 1 hour on the phone to save $40. $40/hr is not a bad rate (!) haha MUFFLER DECISION: The Walker SS 22266 was 409 and the one on the truck maybe 3-4 years old was showing rust on the case. I quickly gave up trying to find a 1.5" 304 muffler because it was hard enough finding a 1.5" muffler and decided since the 22266 is only $30, just buy another one for this job. So the exhaust will be 100% new. FOUND A SHOP: I found a shop that said $250-300 for the labor and I promised them I would loosen the manifold stud nuts. Mike I like you idea that I'll be the one to break my studs if it comes to that. Will be interesting since there are BRASS NUTS on the studs - only place I ever saw that was on Studebakers which did that from the factory. Oh, there is one other shop that I have not contacted yet that is still in the running, but unless things go swimmingly well with this other shop, I'm going with the shop I found. BRASS NUTS: (Oh yeah? My truck is BadAss, it has Brass Nuts. And 3 of them. OK OK, I quit) I'm thinking heat and paraffin. I seem to recall that when removing brass nuts, their threads can pull out and stay on the studs. Clearly the nuts should be room temp when trying to break free. Would it be too much to hope for that anti-seize was used when they were installed? (Is there a possibility that they are the original nuts???
  10. LOL, that's funny but I'm seriously taking that into consideration. I'm 68 and have really started "slowing down" since 65. So the writing is on the wall. As long as I'm driving, I plan to keep the 620 as my 2nd vehicle. ...and I never want to deal with exhaust again after this job.
  11. I never liked the L20B manifold swap idea, but it was on the table. I was focusing on the time and money spent just to change a perfectly good manifold - the sort of thing I'm really against. While it would be possible to fab a 1.5" system on that LB manifold, the 4-1 config would be different than the 4-2-1 of the l18 and I think there would be a loss of low end torque. So the manifold swap is really not an option. Too many negatives - the only positive is eliminating the Y. It's no so much I want to keep the system original, it's really I don't want to modify it. It's a stock, daily driver, work truck, and I want it to stay that way. Regarding stainless, for a little extra money it can save a lot of money in the long run because the primary expense in a custom exhaust is the labor, not the materials. SS should be the last exhaust system I put on this truck. NOTE: I believe I can order 1.5 12ga in steel which is .109 wall. That should last far better than 16ga. And with a SS muffler and tailpipe, the whole system should have good life.
  12. Here is a bending demonstration comparing Compression bending w/ and w/o the Huth Control Wrinkling Die, but check out the 2" pipe comparison @ 2:22 time: all bends to "100 and 125 degrees" according to the narrative but you can see what they did 2"OD tube: .065 wall aluminized steel just fine .049 wall SS had just a few wrinkles in it (@ 2:22 in the video) Why .049? Because .065 would NOT wrinkle at the 100* bend. The .049 would not wrinkle up to some lower bend angle - that is not established. But even so, the amount of .049" wrinkling is more than acceptable for maintenance and inspection work. Those kinks are strictly cosmetic and would have negligible effect on system performance. And that was for 2" OD. Increasing from .049 to .065 would kink less and bend more. decreasing to 1.75" OD would kink even less and bend even more decreasing to 1.5" OD would kink still less and bend still more. From this video it is clear that 1.5"OD .065" wall 304 can be bent for just about any exhaust application and probably bend to the max compression bender limit of about 135 degrees. ...but what do I know.... NOTE: These Wrinkle Die's would allow a shop to bend BIG SS tubing and not have to weld fab using mandrel bends. If I was in business I would get this tech ASAP.
  13. The size isn't the problem. I found 1.5 304 16ga at Summit w/free shipping since over $100. At first, I didn't realize there were issues bending thin wall (16ga) stainless - especially 2.5 and up. So I have no idea what these shops are doing since they don't have mandrel benders and I doubt of they have that ribbed die that lets you bend 4" on a normal bender. The larger the tubing the more likely it will wrinkle. The 1.5 16ga will probably bend, but none of the shops know for sure. No one will do the job if it wrinkles. I've seen you tubes of 2" SS wrinkles and they are not that bad. 1.5" should not be a problem since no big angle bends in the exhaust pipe. Not knowing if 1.5" SS bends means these shops really are not experts. And turning down a "vehicle inspection class job" because of the possibility of a tiny wrinkle doesn't make any sense. The shops that will do the job are quoting prices too low for welded mandrel pieced systems. PITA #1: I'm going to have to contact the full list again and specifically find out how they plan to make the bends. And the one shop that looked like the goto place has had some kind of family emergency and I haven't been able to get a response from them in 10 days. (What ELSE can go wrong????) PITA #2: I'm now looking into 12ga 1.5" steel tube to the SS muffler and a simple SS tailpipe. I'll air dry Cerakote the exhaust pipe if I go this route. ALSO found 2 OEM exhaust pipes (!) One was brand new but laid out in the weather for 20 years, another is very rusty. People universally underestimate rust damage and considering shipping from CA to PA, it's a lot of work for something that may only last a couple years. THE SMART THING might be to change the exhaust manifold to the single outlet. Then any shop could make exhaust pipe cheaply - for the single outlet, I'd have no issue with aluminized steel. This whole stainless thing is because of the y-pipe fabrication cost. Changing the manifold will take Time and Money, so maybe have a stainless (I already have the SS flange) stubby y-pipe made with a single outlet flange. What is really annoying is that I could fab the stubby SS Y but I'm so jammed with the car crash and injuries and backlogs of chores, I really need to pay someone to do it.
  14. UPDATE: Found a couple people that had the OEM exhaust pipe and the entire system is 1.5 inches. Trying to get this done in stainless is turning into a nightmare.
  15. I know that reversion really kills fuel economy and makes an engine pig rich when that happens. It is common at WOT low rpm - as rpm increases, the "reversion cloud" gets sucked into the intake thus eliminating the extra fuel being introduced at the venturies during reverse flow. At low rpm and low throttle, I'm not so sure what happens. When cruising, the engine is at low throttle settings and producing nowhere near its max horsepower rating. So for that condition, the 1.5" exhaust is quite large. I also suspect that the higher velocities of the 1.5 might be more effective during overlap during cruise. But "more effective" might be bad for fuel economy. Too much overlap scavenging might be possible and might harm FE - note the two IF's in that statement. Might post on economodder which I joined many years ago when I was running a 92 Geo Metro and an 87 Chevy Turbo Sprint (which I totaled, R.I.P., murdered one of the last Unicorns.)
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