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  1. Ha! Jerry Brown was governor from 1974 to 1982 when prop 13 passed (78). You should thank him for prop 13. I think he’s living on a farm north of Sacramento.
  2. I have no idea, I don’t speak SA. Someone else help.
  3. New topic? Or agreeing that a governor controlling a business owner’s ability to do their own thing is wrong? Not understanding whether you agree that control is control, regardless of whether it is a dem or a publican doing it. Oh, the hypocrisy.
  4. If a governor does not allow a business owner to require masks or vaccination for customers, and proposes fines or penalties if they do, coercing the business owner? Yes. Is the choice being taken away from the business owner? Yes. Fuck that commie bullshit. Copied from above “By your extremely simplistic and pedantic logic if I put a gun to your head and say "do this" you still made the choice. Threatening excessive punishment to achieve compliance but claiming you gave them "a choice" is not something the GOOD GUYS DO, that is what petty tyrants do.” And, “ Even under the law "duress" is recognized as not allowing for a choice to be made.” And, “Stop trying to rationalize your willingness to allow for petty tyrants to control other people just because you happen to agree with them.” And, “WRONG IS STILL WRONG IF EVERYONE IS DOING IT. RIGHT IS STILL RIGHT IF NO ONE IS DOING IT.” Not copied from above. What happened to the business owner’s individual choice? What is the difference between this commie bullshit and the other commie bullshit? One government controlling a person’s actions is another person’s commie bullshit.
  5. Yes - A likely suspect, but maybe called the Cortina Perana in SA.
  6. Not a 510 (vent windows), what is it?
  7. Nope - just the ability to accept that when a scientist is confronted with a new experience, like COVID, understand all of the following: 1) the scientist has to think about something, 2) take a guess as to what might work or what might be happening, 3) tell the public what they think, 4) go determine whether what they said is actually what was happening, 5) understand that the first 4 items were based on a reasoned guess based on training and experience, 6) also understand that the scientist’s reasoned guess could have been flawed and require adjustment based on what they did in item 4. If you don’t have that ability to accept that things get better through study, then you’ll end up calling a scientist a liar because they tested and adjusted what they said at the start, and I’ll understand that you have an inflexible mind.
  8. Some folks have flexible minds and can accept that things change and might be different in the future than what is currently being reported/said. Others do not have flexible minds. I suppose that I misused what you wrote. You indicated that there would be a different reaction from folks if the goal of vaccination was eradication. Of course, but that’s a little silly, as eradication was not proposed as a possible outcome by anyone.
  9. We are using two different definitions of force. One of physical force versus pressure. Our “government” and employers are using pressure or effort force, while you are likening it to being something more. If vaccines and masks are not working, why does California have a lower infection rate? Eradication is kind of a dream that you concocted - don’t think anyone anywhere has proposed that vaccines were intended to eradicate. If you respond that you can’t trust what is being reported, I’ll be forced to ignore you.
  10. And was this a kit or homemade. If a kit, details would be great.
  11. Now you make a valid point, instead of the “No, I’m not” ( yes you are) type of argument. But, still, no change in my rethink. Part of my argument was that we live under laws in society. Some are easy to comply with, while others are not. But we all live under those laws. Yes, others make those laws, but everyone in that society lives under them. Some laws have harsh penalties, like if you were to rape your neighbor; and others have less harsh penalties, like if you were to vote twice in an election. With each law, regulation, policy, you have to make a choice every day with each and every law. Do I do this or do that. Somehow trying to raise this decision to be more morally repugnant than another is what? If he and you are so incensed by this type of behavior by those who are making those decisions, then get involved and support someone who can win an election and make different laws and decisions that are more to your liking. Right now, you have to live with the choices that exist now. So, in this case the penalty for not getting the vaccine is somewhere in between those two prior examples. He can get the vaccine, or he can lose his job. He could also move to one of those two states where the governors have put penalties in place where they can keep schools from vaccinating or masking kids, and are trying their best to blunt any attempt for vaccine mandates. Otherwise, he’s living in a place where he gets no such consideration, and he has to make a very tough choice. I’m kind of surprised that there are so many people who make impassioned arguments about things and decisions like this, appear to make it into a life or death choice - are faced with a less than life or death choice like moving to a state where their choices are much easier on their morals and conscience, yet want society to bend to their impassioned wants. Get the vaccine or don’t - it is a choice.
  12. Now that is such a cogent argument, I’ll have to rethink mine - nah.
  13. This is a false argument. If you don’t want the vaccine, don’t get it. If you don’t want to have your kid get it, don’t. It is a choice that you have and can make. In civilized society, we live under laws made by other people. That has been true for some time. Some laws we like, some we don’t. Home school is a valid option. Get another job, work for yourself, or go be homeless. Nobody (yet) is coming to your residence with a gun to shoot you if you don’t get the shot. Don't conflate getting a vaccine to killing the people who get it - as though there is no choice involved. If you have such strong beliefs, then be true to them and don’t get the vaccine. Go live in the wilderness somewhere where they will never find you. There is no force, there is no gun, so nobody is killing or hurting anyone by force - it is a choice. Make it.
  14. They are saying get ready for much higher natural gas prices this winter too.
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