Cuz Merica

[paradime]

Bullshit ! my rates were only going up a little at a time.Obamacare goes into force and it jumps $100 bucks a month,with less coverage and a higher deductible.Do you have some proof of your claim ? Do you have Obamacare ?

 

You cry Bullshit, and then claim your rate "jumps $100 bucks a month, with less coverage and a higher deductible." once Obamacare went into force... Not even going to ask you to prove that crap. You want to prove me wrong, do your own homework. 

[paradime]

High quality expensive first rate health care is simply not affordable on the large scale. Why do people from countries with single payer health care come here for treatment? Because it is better, but consequently more expensive. Also, realize those countries have much higher tax rates and less military spending and still support a lower quality of care.

 

The simple truth is there is not enough money for everyone to have the best health care. It sucks but your health and life, whether the insurance company or the government has a defined value. And it is much less then you think.

 

Just like there are not enough resources for everyone to live at a first world level. You will always have the haves and the have-nots. If you are poor you will have shittier health care and worse outcomes.

 

So can the situation be made better? Yes, but not at a world class level, you will get a shitty to mediocre single payer, government control of how much is spent on you (aka death panels) and the first rate care will only be avialable as an extra paid service or if you are really lucky as a work benefit; with a "don't like it? Don't be poor/middle class" attitude.

 

Dguy, For most of us folks here in this Datsun forum, we're already getting shitty to mediocre healthcare and paying world class prices for it. Did you know middle class Americans are actually going to Mexico to get affordable healthcare procedures? 

 

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Americans-Heading-to-Tijuana-for-their-Healthcare-Needs-400082601.html

[KoHeartsGPA]

Dguy, For most of us folks here in this Datsun forum, we're already getting shitty to mediocre healthcare and paying world class prices for it. Did you know middle class Americans are actually going to Mexico to get affordable healthcare procedures?

 

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Americans-Heading-to-Tijuana-for-their-Healthcare-Needs-400082601.html

It's not affordable, it's cheap, and you get what you pay for along with poorly sanitized clinics, again, cheaper, don't confuse those as if the quality and level is the same as in the states, been there and done that.

 

You and tr8er are defending the ACA as if it was your religion, what the flying fuck, it is a fucking joke, so much that none of the assholes that rammed it down our throats want in on it, they exempt themselves.

[Jesse C.]

Watching the locals news after work yesterday and they where talking to a woman who signs up folks for the ACA - California Care system. And she just kept on going how cost are going up, but they will find something for you to afford and you should not worry. 

 

Then she was asked about Anthem - Blue Cross leaving and she just went into repeat mode. Everything is fine, no need to panic. 

 

Either the whole things needs to be shut down or reform it. I know, it is like trying to give an angry lion a suppository, but, they wanted to give out suppositories! 

[Dguy210]

Dguy, For most of us folks here in this Datsun forum, we're already getting shitty to mediocre healthcare and paying world class prices for it. Did you know middle class Americans are actually going to Mexico to get affordable healthcare procedures? 

 

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Americans-Heading-to-Tijuana-for-their-Healthcare-Needs-400082601.html

 

 

It's not affordable, it's cheap, and you get what you pay for along with poorly sanitized clinics, again, cheaper, don't confuse those as if the quality and level is the same as in the states, been there and done that.

 

You and tr8er are defending the ACA as if it was your religion, what the flying fuck, it is a fucking joke, so much that none of the assholes that rammed it down our throats want in on it, they exempt themselves.

 

I'm going to agree with KoHeartsGPA here, as I've also been to hospitals in countries with single payer health care and yes it was cheaper but the quality was no where close to the same. I can go into several personal and close relative anecdotes on this.

 

Those people going to Mexico for treatment actually make my point, 1) they are going for a private health care out of their own pocket, and 2) US health care is expensive.  I didn't say that the care in the US was cheaper, it isn't, and god forbid you have to go to county for treatment, but generally the baseline quality of a hospital in the US, the quality of the supplies they buy (real medicine, not fake or watered down), and the quality of the doctors, is way more tightly controlled then in other countries. You can't use the level of a private Mexican hospital as the model for the US, totally different standard of care and personnel, and the related costs to run the hospital are much cheaper in Mexico.

 

You want to know what a completely privatized hospital system without all the regulation looks like in the US? Go check out a veterinarian's office.

[racerx]

If Trumps health care plan passed, would it better than Obamas?

[KoHeartsGPA]

If Trumps health care plan passed, would it better than Obamas?

I don't trust anything with government hands on it, so I'm going to say no, he's trying too hard on a campaign promise, he needs to let the chips fall in place, let the Dems own their shit, the ACA is being crushed under its own weight, he needs to back the fuck off and let it die, he's not helping himself by insisting on replacing it at this point, it is obvious neither the left or right want to "fix it" sorry America, but fuck them both.

[angliagt]

I'm going to agree with KoHeartsGPA here, as I've also been to hospitals in countries with single payer health care and yes it was cheaper but the quality was no where close to the same. I can go into several personal and close relative anecdotes on this.

 

Those people going to Mexico for treatment actually make my point, 1) they are going for a private health care out of their own pocket, and 2) US health care is expensive.  I didn't say that the care in the US was cheaper, it isn't, and god forbid you have to go to county for treatment, but generally the baseline quality of a hospital in the US, the quality of the supplies they buy (real medicine, not fake or watered down), and the quality of the doctors, is way more tightly controlled then in other countries. You can't use the level of a private Mexican hospital as the model for the US, totally different standard of care and personnel, and the related costs to run the hospital are much cheaper in Mexico.

 

You want to know what a completely privatized hospital system without all the regulation looks like in the US? Go check out a veterinarian's office.

 

                And what about recourse for botched health care?You think that Americans

have any rights in Mexico?

[angliagt]

Watching the locals news after work yesterday and they where talking to a woman who signs up folks for the ACA - California Care system. And she just kept on going how cost are going up, but they will find something for you to afford and you should not worry. 

 

Then she was asked about Anthem - Blue Cross leaving and she just went into repeat mode. Everything is fine, no need to panic. 

 

Either the whole things needs to be shut down or reform it. I know, it is like trying to give an angry lion a suppository, but, they wanted to give out suppositories! 

 

                They soon forgot Nancy Pelosi's statement - "You can read the bill after you pass it",

[tr8er]

You and tr8er are defending the ACA as if it was your religion, what the flying fuck, it is a fucking joke, so much that none of the assholes that rammed it down our throats want in on it, they exempt themselves.

I'm surprised as well. It's not a great system. I just don't want the new versions being proposed to take hold. Insurance companies going unregulated at the cost of People's health. We need to bury those giants who prey on us.

 

 

 

Also, I don't think US medical care is all that. I do agree that we have incredible facilities and doctors, but we all know we also have terrible hospitals and doctors. Hospitals in other countries are the same. For instance, we often see friends and family fly to Thailand for medical procedures because the facilities and doctors are great (you go to the best they have) and the costs are way lower. So the best care abroad, for far less than US average costs, and far better than US average facilities and doctors. I'd be curious to see how the average care in the US rates. I'm guessing pretty low. Not many can afford to fly to Rochester Minnesoda every time they need the best care. I've also read that Dubai has a disproportionate amount of the best doctors these days.

[KoHeartsGPA]

I agree tr8er, but the root of the problem is big pharma, insurance is just the benefactor, insurance wouldn't be so expensive if meds weren't so expensive

[Jesse C.]

One easy way to lower cost. Kill the Lawyers

[Mattndew76]

I agree tr8er, but the root of the problem is big pharma, insurance is just the benefactor, insurance wouldn't be so expensive if meds weren't so expensive

 

I think insurance companies have a lot to do with costs. I posted the Investopedia page link. If companies are beholden to investor profits then they ultimately push for higher profits or larger enrollments increasing the value of the company.

 

Its this big composite profit driven goliath pushing for an ever growing margin. Free Market Consumerism and True Single Payer will never happen. The system will shift and move toward investor profit systems but never a system that truly benefits the consumer.

[tr8er]

The major insurance carrier here HMSA, just retailoered their insurance program. The new system pays doctors a flat rate monthly for every patient they have. They might see that patient 5 times that month, they may see them 0. Either way, same pay. So there are some good sides to this structure. Doctors are incentivized to heal. The more healthy patients they have, the more they make proportionate to time working. The shit part comes when you hear the pay. $35/ month per patient. People pay $300-$400/ month, and the insurance pays $35/month... The rest goes to surgery, emergency, medication, and most importantly, the fat fuck insurance companies who make way the fuck too much money for essentially operating as a national wallet. The only company in the state who match 401K contributions. They get praises for that, those who run companies know it just means they make too much profit, and they need to dump money into employees 401K's if they want to get executive bonuses. Which holy shit do they...

[tr8er]

I agree tr8er, but the root of the problem is big pharma, insurance is just the benefactor, insurance wouldn't be so expensive if meds weren't so expensive

Big pharma is not excused. I've got just as much hate for those murderous fucks.

[Mattndew76]

Here on another topic. 

 

Man is detained for stopping a world wide malware issue and  then disappears without duprocess.

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywp8k5/researcher-who-stopped-wannacry-ransomware-detained-in-us-after-def-con  

[q-tip]

One easy way to lower cost. Kill the Lawyers

To quote Cliff Burton on that subject "fuck those guys, kill 'em all!"

[racerx]

So if ACA is not much better, for the poor, middle class and the elderly then why was the GOP hell bent on trying to make it pass. Makes you wonder specially if McConnel were having close door meetings and were not allowing, even the repubs time to review it? Don't get me wrong I heard horror stories about Obama care but ehy replace it with something that can be worse for the vulnerable. I read articles and articles about ACA and its not a repeal in its purest form, by 2020 or 2026, depending which article you read, will leave like 20 million or people with out insurance.

[paradime]

It's not affordable, it's cheap, and you get what you pay for along with poorly sanitized clinics, again, cheaper, don't confuse those as if the quality and level is the same as in the states, been there and done that.

 

You and tr8er are defending the ACA as if it was your religion, what the flying fuck, it is a fucking joke, so much that none of the assholes that rammed it down our throats want in on it, they exempt themselves.

 

Please don't read what you want to hear into what I'm saying. I am not pro ACA by any stretch. It was supposed to bring cost down, Dems shoved it down everyone's throat, if FAILED,  and I sure as hell don't want to leave it as it is. I think it's clear the people what to fix what we have in place even if republicans called it Obamacare and the name stuck. The only point to repealing it is purely symbolic, but Trump is hell bent for just that. He'd put people's lives in danger by throwing the entire healthcare system into chaos just to save his own face. The real contention seems to revolve around mandatory enrollment, so let's cut to the chase and talk about that. 

 

Nowhere in my statement am I suggesting Mexico is a better option, in fact my point was how desperate people are to get affordable healthcare they are leaving our country to get it on the OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL. Now that's fucked up. 

[KoHeartsGPA]

So if ACA is not much better, for the poor, middle class and the elderly then why was the GOP hell bent on trying to make it pass. Makes you wonder specially if McConnel were having close door meetings and were not allowing, even the repubs time to review it? Don't get me wrong I heard horror stories about Obama care but ehy replace it with something that can be worse for the vulnerable. I read articles and articles about ACA and its not a repeal in its purest form, by 2020 or 2026, depending which article you read, will leave like 20 million or people with out insurance.

McConnell is a piece of shit as is Paul Ryan, don't ever trust anything coming out from them, they need to be sent into space along with McCain and the Clintons & Bush's open the hatch and float them all.

 

Please don't read what you want to hear into what I'm saying. I am not pro ACA by any stretch. It was supposed to bring cost down, Dems shoved it down everyone's throat, if FAILED,  and I sure as hell don't want to leave it as it is. I think it's clear the people what to fix what we have in place even if republicans called it Obamacare and the name stuck. The only point to repealing it is purely symbolic, but Trump is hell bent for just that. He'd put people's lives in danger by throwing the entire healthcare system into chaos just to save his own face. The real contention seems to revolve around mandatory enrollment, so let's cut to the chase and talk about that. 

 

Nowhere in my statement am I suggesting Mexico is a better option, in fact my point was how desperate people are to get affordable healthcare they are leaving our country to get it on the OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL. Now that's fucked up.

 

News flash, Americans going to Mexico for medical reasons has been going on for decades, mainly due to alternative medicine that has been blocked by big pharma here in the states, like I said, kill big pharma and you begin to fix our healthcare, they have a monopoly on the entire industry and most politicians in their payroll, big pharma is modern day mafia.

[paradime]

McConnell is a piece of shit as is Paul Ryan, don't ever trust anything coming out from them, they need to be sent into space along with McCain and the Clintons & Bush's open the hatch and float them all.

 

 

News flash, Americans going to Mexico for medical reasons has been going on for decades, mainly due to alternative medicine that has been blocked by big pharma here in the states, like I said, kill big pharma and you begin to fix our healthcare, they have a monopoly on the entire industry and most politicians in their payroll, big pharma is modern day mafia.

 

Yes, avocados ripen faster in a paper bag. 

[racerx]

So it will not really benefit the public but big pharma, insurance companies, stocks and hospitals will continue making huge profits. Repeal my ass, puleezzz. Who do they think they are fooling?

[KoHeartsGPA]

So it will not really benefit the public but big pharma, insurance companies, stocks and hospitals will continue making huge profits. Repeal my ass, puleezzz. Who do they think they are fooling?

Exactly.

[240zness]

Canadians come to the US, for advanced care

 

 

Google gives diff results for diff people/devices

[KoHeartsGPA]

Yes, avocados ripen faster in a paper bag.

 

Few years back my uncle was diagnosed with prostate cancer by Kaiser, they had him scheduled for surgery a few weeks later, my uncle could barely walk, my aunt and a friend of theirs took him to an American doctor they've known all their life that's got his private practice in TJ, he ran all the tests and a few days later prescribed my uncle with a drug that is forbidden in the states, couple days later my uncle began to feel better, 10 days later he was walking on his own, he called Kaiser and convinced them to do more tests before surgery, long story short, he is perfectly fine now and didn't need surgery, cancer is gone.

 

Fuck you big pharma!