destruction of america

[datzenmike]

One thing I've learned on Destruction is that bold and 20 size doesn't make it true.

[Steve240z]

But it is TRUE

[wayno]

I think we should concentrate on what the scum bags actually running this country are trying or have been trying to do.

 

This thought came to me after watching 30+ satellites in an almost perfect row go by, this actually kind of scares me if it is true, what if the vaccination or ingredients in it and satellites the scum bags running this country are so intent on getting in orbit have one main purpose, what if the two combined can be or have been turned into a new type of fingerprint?

 

If true, Trump winning that election really screwed up the scum bags plans, by the time they got back control people were questioning the vaccine.

 

If you actually have the brain cells to think about this, the future looks pretty bad, I wonder what other countries would think of it, the scum bags running this shit show knowing where they were 24/7/365?

 

 

[datzenmike]

That's kind of out there wayno. This would require that your individual shot be identified as being given to you and they were not. They just came out of a refrigerator. No way to know mine from the next in line. Like a lot of finger prints but no name to go with it. A foil hat would stop any ID from space I think.

 

 

At my age not much surprises me but I also saw this parade of lights a month ago and was awe struck, for a moment. Pretty cool though.

[Ooph!]

Starlink satellites are small about 5 or 600 lbs and in low earth orbit. They can be seen when they reflect light because they are so close to the ground. The satellites in the train are still being moved into their proper orbit, done that way to navigate them all at once instead of individually. I worked in the industry and it amazes me that with that many up there and as many as they want to add , that we don't see any collisions.

You can also see the International Space Station there is a website to look up its position.

https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/

 

https://www.space.com/starlink-satellite-train-how-to-see-and-track-it

 

 

[jbirds510]

How to tell when a politician is telling the truth? Their mouth isn't moving.

 

[john510]

14 hours ago, dhp123166 said:

1.  Republicans are pro- child, really?

 

https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/       follow the "industry supporters" thread and see who these people are. They are republicans.

 

 

There is a lot that the Republican Party is prepared to do to protect children from the world at large. But there are limits.

 

There are lines the Republican Party won’t cross.

 

The Republican Party will not, for example, support universal school lunch to protect children from hunger. When Minnesota Democrats pushed the measure in the most recent session of the state’s Legislature, for example, one of their Republican colleagues strenuously objected. “I have yet to meet a person in Minnesota that says they don’t have access to enough food to eat,” Steve Drazkowski, a state senator, said. He, like most Republicans in the Legislature, voted against the bill.

 

In the United States Congress, most Republicans will not support a child allowance to keep children, and their families, out of poverty. On the question of health care, there are 10 states — Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, Tennessee, Wisconsin and Wyoming — where Republicans have refused the Medicaid expansion passed under the Affordable Care Act, depriving millions of Americans, including many children, of access to regular medical care.

 

And in the wake of yet another school massacre — in Nashville, where a shooter killed three adults and three children at a private Christian school — Republicans refuse to do anything that might reduce the odds of another shooting or make it less likely that a child dies of gun violence.

 

-New York Times- March 31, 2023

 

So it is better to rely on the " kindness of strangers " than protective legislation for childrens' sake?

 

And here is the truth about your "crisis pregnancy centers:" 

 

CPC is a term used to refer to certain facilities that represent themselves as legitimate reproductive health care clinics providing care for pregnant people but actually aim to dissuade people from accessing certain types of reproductive health care, including abortion care and even contraceptive options. Staff members at these unregulated and often nonmedical facilities have no legal obligation to provide pregnant people with accurate information and are not subject to HIPAA or required by law to maintain client confidentiality. Many CPCs are affiliated with national organizations that provide funding, support, and training to advance a broadscale antiabortion agenda. 

 

-American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists

 

2. I never stated anything about the "entertainment industry" but that assumption is to be expected as that is one of the evangelical rights boogeymen.

 

   I was referring to the consumerism advertising industry which has been sexualizing children for decades, remember a teenaged Brooke Shields telling us that "nothing comes between me and my Calvins?"  That and an endless littany of advertising porn all to separate us consumers from our dollars.

 

   Thanks for the straw man. The day a Republican has the stones to take on big business is the day ( to use a trite aphorism) hell freezes over. 

 

3. The evangelical right hates homosexuals and transvestites ( i.e. as some humans are prone to be) because they are allegedly sexualizing children and are an "affront against God".

 

The right is trying to create a subclass of these and other marginalized people, homeless, illegal immigrant, mentally ill much like Hitler had his Jews, Communists, Trade Unionists, Bolsheviks etc.

 

We all know what Hitler did to his subclass.  

 

The cancerous heart of MAGA is a punching down coward.

 

 I never hear the right take on the female child pageant industry which most assuredly sexualizes little girls. 

 

I never hear the right taking on F.L.D.S. or I.B.L.P. or any of the other multiple christian denominations ( Latter Day Saints, Southern Baptist) which all have child predators in them. They don't because right wing males are the leadership of these organizations.

 

What kind of a weak impotent God can't even keep children safe in his own houses of worship?

 

There are only nine states in the union that have banned underage marriage; Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Rhode Island, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont and Connecticut. All what one might consider to be "blue" or slightly "purple" states.

 

Now look at the list of states with the highest per capita underage marriage; Nevada, Idaho, Arkansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Utah, Alabama, West Virginia and Mississippi.

 

These seem to be mostly "red" states but please do go on about how republicans have the best interests of children in their hearts at all times.

 

4. "Trump did nothing in office to show any bent towards being a dictator."

 

This is highly laughable and illustrates your membership in the Tre45on cult;

 

Dictatorial tendencies include narcissism, contempt for the truth and the  willingness to run roughshod over long-standing norms.

 

Concrete efforts by Tre45on which are in line with the formation of a dictator;  

 

Systematic efforts to intimidate the media.

 

Building an official pro-Trump media network.

 

Politicizing the civil service, military, National Guard, or the domestic security agencies.

 

Using state power to reward corporate backers. 

 

Enforcing the law for only one side ("Proud Boys, stand back and stand by." All an effort by tre45on to build a homegrown Sturmabteilung.)

 

Really rigging the system.

 

Fearmongering.

 

Demonizing the opposition.

 

Doing everything possible short of fomenting widespread civil war to remain in power.

 

Rereading this list, it shines the light on your original assertion and all can really see that you have drank the Tre45on KoolAid.

 

 

 5. How can one be "pro life" but not wish to exert any control " over hypothetical women".

 

In the pro life right, the foetus takes precedence over the mother. Period. So you wish to force women to bear children " but do not wish to exert control over them." Ummm, okay.

 

We can now see how much cognitive dissonance is in operation in you.  

 

I will never agree that a clump of cells that cannot survive outside the mothers body qualifies as a human being.

 

What is even more f'ed up are the assertions by Tre45on and others on the right "that babies are executed as soon as they are born."  said in 2019, that is a completely insane utterance from the putrid brain of your fearless leader.

 

Notice how you tried to conflate "human being" with "life." Nice try at the semantic drift but it is not going to work.

 

Neither is your "innocent" reference to what I am assuming is unborn life. That is just sentimental mush.

 

And if it is "bad policy to punish the innocent for others' mistakes?" why do 14 states out of 22 that currently allow abortion have no rape or incest exception?

 

You really want to punish a young defenseless girl whose father overpowered her or the young lady out in the park who got attacked by some scumbag , her only crime being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

" Protecting the innocent, huh?"

 

 I remember when republicans had an intellectual and philosophical base; George Will, William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, Wilhelm Roepke, and George Nash are just a few conservative powerhouses who were smart enough to lay a base for modern conservatism. And as a result had a cogent governing ability.

 

 I think the problem began when after 1980 all republicans tried to " out-Reagan", Ronald Reagan, and thus began a downward spiral of intellectual stultification.

 

 That and the incursion by the Evangelical Right, as differentiated by your average dutiful christian whom follows the teachings of Jesus and is more concerned with washing feet than owning a shoe factory in S.E. Asia that employs child labor.

 

 The Evangelical Right is more concerned with domination, an alleged moral manifest, and lust for power that is absent in the teachings of Jesus. They are the spiritual descendants of the original genocidal colonizers of North America.

 

  So now today the republican party of the past has been usurped by such mental luminaries as; Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Jim Jordan, Louis Gohmert etc. etc.

 

MAGA has no governing philosophy other than " owning the libs" and trolling the populace for attention points and a better Q rating. It's the dead end of a nihilistic, apathetic, and entitled group of people.

 

But once these slobs go away there are still some bright republican lights like Chris Sununu, Glenn Youngkin and Phil Scott of Vermont whom all seem to remember sanity and conciliatory deal making that both sides of the aisle used to move this country forward..

 

 

 

I got as far as the part where I saw "New York Times" and stopped wasting my time.That source of bad information exaggerates to extremes.A news source than only picks on one party and ignores the other is never to be trusted.They are very good at brainwashing people into thinking the Democrats have all the solutions to everything.And they don't.

[john510]

15 hours ago, paradime said:

We have a pandemic of the pot calling the kettle black. You'd think that after decades of mindless ideological division we'd have learned by now that beating each other over the head with insults and pathetically cliche stereotypes accomplishes nothing for WE the people. So what's the point of rooting for one side or the other if both are on the corporate dole and serving their interests rather than ours? Dangling red haring issues followed by empty virtue signaling is the rhetorical drug of mass complicity. Instead of judging the other's F'ed up thinking, maybe it's time to consider what WE are willing to overlook just to keep their side from gaining power. 

You have to pick somebody or else these politicians will do whatever they see fit whether it's good or bad for the country.California for example.Look at the unbalanced political climate we have.Our guy does whatever he wants with no resistance.The guy added another gas tax during record high gas prices and nobody cared ? I hear people say they just don't vote because they don't like anybody.My thoughts are you better at least pick somebody that is more closely aligned to what you want than to just say fuck it I'm out.Pick the lesser of two evils.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

16 hours ago, john510 said:

The thing about politics I will never understand are those that flat out refuse to vote for the opposite party they're registered to.The left had to know how fried Biden's brain was yet here we are.It was based on hatred,simple as that.It's kind of scary if you think about it.I have a good friend.Known him since 6th grade,about 47 years now.He lives in East Los Angeles.Complains about homeless,lack of crime fighting,illegal invasion,gas prices,taxes here in Cali etc. Always talking about the things the right supports (which he seems to support) and the left ignores.You would think he was a right wing supporter.Right before the last election we're camping at the sand dunes talking politics and he's complaining about what an ass Trump is.We're telling him Trump is on your side with all of your gripes about what's going in California.Well he's going to vote for Biden because he hates Trump.He just hates him that's it.No other reason at all but "I hate him" Then he tells us he'd like to see Adam Schifforbrains run for President.We're all standing there thinking WTF ? We thought he was kidding,he wasn't.I wish I could understand it.

Many good points here.

 

I would have voted for McCain in 2008 if he didn't bring along that stupid joke of a VP, Palin. I often think about the change in trajectory if McCain had been president. I do feel that there would be much less in-fighting now.

 

Hatred? Not exactly the right word, but yes, we who voted for Biden could not, in good conscience, vote for a man we felt was capable of so much chaos and lying. Fake news, fake news... Now before you jump all over me for that, consider that yes, he certainly shook up the system, but all that resulted was an over-pressurized soda can waiting to pop, which it kinda did on Jan 6th. If Trump had been even remotely successful in rearranging the pieces after he upended the puzzle, I might feel differently. So that answers two of your points. 1- Hate does not equal hatred. It can lead to hatred, but is many steps away. and 2- why we who don't vote for Trump, won't vote for Trump. Give me a good republican candidate to vote for.

 

You're absolutely right about the situation with your friend. I find myself asking those same questions. Why do I vote for a party that no longer supports my ideals? Man, it's hard to admit, but it's because I can't get my head around the manner in which the majority of republican officials behave while in office. Back to what I said about McConnell, his outright display of defiance to the opposition, and his statement of a blockade against them. That's just immature. What good can come from saying "I won't work with you, now or ever"? Totally counterproductive. So unless the GOP changes their attitude, I won't go there. When and if they can learn the meaning of decorum and possibly even diplomacy, I would absolutely be all ears. Because you're right, my party isn't my party anymore. I've outgrown them and they won't listen to me. They don't want me.

 

If you guys want to hear it, I'll tell you about what happened during our fight to keep local off road trails open. To use a hot-button term, elitist environmentalists. I think that fight was the catalyst for my feeling about the democrats ideals and who holds the power to implement change. It's a long story, but I think I could distill it down for you guys.

[dhp123166]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:08 PM, dhp123166 said:

 

 

 

 

 

LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE CHUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Another republican nothingburger.

 

There is no existing audio recording of Biden discussing bribes.

 

 

[john510]

1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Many good points here.

 

I would have voted for McCain in 2008 if he didn't bring along that stupid joke of a VP, Palin. I often think about the change in trajectory if McCain had been president. I do feel that there would be much less in-fighting now.

 

Hatred? Not exactly the right word, but yes, we who voted for Biden could not, in good conscience, vote for a man we felt was capable of so much chaos and lying. Fake news, fake news... Now before you jump all over me for that, consider that yes, he certainly shook up the system, but all that resulted was an over-pressurized soda can waiting to pop, which it kinda did on Jan 6th. If Trump had been even remotely successful in rearranging the pieces after he upended the puzzle, I might feel differently. So that answers two of your points. 1- Hate does not equal hatred. It can lead to hatred, but is many steps away. and 2- why we who don't vote for Trump, won't vote for Trump. Give me a good republican candidate to vote for.

 

You're absolutely right about the situation with your friend. I find myself asking those same questions. Why do I vote for a party that no longer supports my ideals? Man, it's hard to admit, but it's because I can't get my head around the manner in which the majority of republican officials behave while in office. Back to what I said about McConnell, his outright display of defiance to the opposition, and his statement of a blockade against them. That's just immature. What good can come from saying "I won't work with you, now or ever"? Totally counterproductive. So unless the GOP changes their attitude, I won't go there. When and if they can learn the meaning of decorum and possibly even diplomacy, I would absolutely be all ears. Because you're right, my party isn't my party anymore. I've outgrown them and they won't listen to me. They don't want me.

 

If you guys want to hear it, I'll tell you about what happened during our fight to keep local off road trails open. To use a hot-button term, elitist environmentalists. I think that fight was the catalyst for my feeling about the democrats ideals and who holds the power to implement change. It's a long story, but I think I could distill it down for you guys.

I'd like to hear the off road trails story.We had a situation down here years ago in the Imperial sand dunes.Enviro's wanted it all closed to protect a flower that grows everywhere out there.It was fought and the compromise was to close I'd say about half the dunes down.And of course it was the best dunes to ride in closest to the camping areas.Guess where that flower grows now more than anywhere ? Where we're allowed to ride ! That was about one thing and it wasn't the flower.Those enviro nuts just don't want us doing anything in the middle of nowhere.

[john510]

3 minutes ago, dhp123166 said:

 

 

Another republican nothingburger.

 

There is no existing audio recording of Biden discussing bribes.

 

 

You can't possibly know if that's true or not.If there's nothing to hide why the redactions ? Common sense would tell us if there's nothing there then show us the whole thing unredacted.Prove the accusations wrong and it's done.

[john510]

I did some research and accumulated a list of Biden's accomplishments that are a positive for the average hard working American,here they are in no particular order.

[Ooph!]

[yenpit]

14 hours ago, wayno said:

I think we should concentrate on what the scum bags actually running this country are trying or have been trying to do.

 

This thought came to me after watching 30+ satellites in an almost perfect row go by, this actually kind of scares me if it is true, what if the vaccination or ingredients in it and satellites the scum bags running this country are so intent on getting in orbit have one main purpose, what if the two combined can be or have been turned into a new type of fingerprint?

 

If true, Trump winning that election really screwed up the scum bags plans, by the time they got back control people were questioning the vaccine.

 

If you actually have the brain cells to think about this, the future looks pretty bad, I wonder what other countries would think of it, the scum bags running this shit show knowing where they were 24/7/365?

 

 

 

Please no offense, but these are the kinds of "conspiracy theories" that even I sometimes think about!  I run them thru my brain, consider the possibilities, discuss some with my girlfriend (she  too), but I can't discuss with most of my closer friends!  My brother is OFF LIMITS to off the wall discussions like this, which is sad.  I like to keep an open mind, in case something like this DOES come to the surface.  And yes, I FIRMLY believe that the left has/had some massive agenda & Trump rocked the living crap out of that agenda, by getting voted in.  And here we are today, with continuing election fraud, hoaxes, indictments, witch hunting etc...................ANYTHING to stop Trump, or anybody else that would continue to rock their boat, continue to throw a wrench in their f**ked up agenda!!  Do I think there are GOP conservatives involved in this or similar crap........yup.  I do NOT trust any of these people, but I SURELY don't trust the left or this current disaster of an "administration"!!

[paradime]

2 hours ago, john510 said:

You have to pick somebody or else these politicians will do whatever they see fit whether it's good or bad for the country.California for example.Look at the unbalanced political climate we have.Our guy does whatever he wants with no resistance.The guy added another gas tax during record high gas prices and nobody cared ? I hear people say they just don't vote because they don't like anybody.My thoughts are you better at least pick somebody that is more closely aligned to what you want than to just say fuck it I'm out.Pick the lesser of two evils.

 

I'm not saying why vote. My point is why limit your options by taking sides and wasting your vote on their POS candidate. I've lost my appetite for BS political red haring, and I'm disgusted by both over priced greasy spoon dives serving it up. A politician that ran on a platform of taking rotten corporate money out of the electoral process and making accountability and transparency a requirement for federal representatives wouldn't get backing from either party. Ask yourself why and you have my point. When all you have is a choice between the lesser of tow evils, you're being played as a sucker for their red haring of the day. How much are we expected to overlook?

[john510]

15 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

I'm not saying why vote. My point is why limit your options by taking sides and wasting your vote on their POS candidate. I've lost my appetite for BS political red haring, and I'm disgusted by both over priced greasy spoon dives serving it up. A politician that ran on a platform of taking rotten corporate money out of the electoral process and making accountability and transparency a requirement for federal representatives wouldn't get backing from either party. Ask yourself why and you have my point. When all you have is a choice between the lesser of tow evils, you're being played as a sucker for their red haring of the day. How much are we expected to overlook?

Well considering the success of Independents and the Libertarian party candidates I'd say voting for either of them is a wasted vote.What I'd like to see is NO party affiliation allowed on ballots,campaigns or even media reporting.Tell us what you stand for and what your policy goals are so we can decide without being biased towards the party.But that will never happen.I think it would be hilarious if Trump came out and decided to go back to his old party the Democrats.They'd shit their pants.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

15 minutes ago, john510 said:

I'd like to hear the off road trails story.We had a situation down here years ago in the Imperial sand dunes.Enviro's wanted it all closed to protect a flower that grows everywhere out there.It was fought and the compromise was to close I'd say about half the dunes down.And of course it was the best dunes to ride in closest to the camping areas.Guess where that flower grows now more than anywhere ? Where we're allowed to ride ! That was about one thing and it wasn't the flower.Those enviro nuts just don't want us doing anything in the middle of nowhere.

Our local gift to the world was "Jeeping", thanks to Mark Smith and a handful of local guys, back in the early 1950s. Their chosen path became known as the Rubicon Trail. I think everyone here has probably heard of the Rubicon. It's famous 'round the world and we get many foreigners every year to prove it. So famous, that it became the target of...I forget the name of the group, but it's a group who's mission is to protect the wilderness. The leader of the group is named Karen Schambach.

 

Karen's methods of attaining intel were atrocious. She had hikers go along the trial making friends with people in their crawlers and taking pics of them, which she used in her propaganda. At a local hearing, she was quoted saying essentially the same thing as I blame Mitch McConnell saying, that no matter what, she would close the trail. No compromise.

 

One huge thing we had going for us is that technically speaking, the Rubicon is a public highway. That helped a ton, but she was relentless. At another hearing, she would speak about off-roaders as if they hated the wilderness. Why else would someone want to come out and destroy nature, right? A guy I know stood up at that hearing and proclaimed, "Wait a minute. You guys think we hate the nature? No, we love it. That's why we're here trying to keep it open for use!" It was apparently obvious to the environmentalists that our type of people must hate the woods, which is why we like to destroy it.

 

Her coup de grace or her "Rubicon", pardon the pun, was to have us build a bridge over Ellis Creek, instead of driving through it. Ellis Creek is a tiny splash of water that flows year round, but in the summer months, is not much more than a couple feet across. But she persisted. She designed this bridge and said that we had to pay for it. It is a massive structure and cost a cool million to build, which was raised by off-roading groups, including our own Rubicon Trail Foundation. The thing is, she thought we rednecks would never be able to raise the funds, meaning ultimate failure on our part and her victory. The trail would have been closed. Period.

 

In her last press release, she actually commended us on our efforts and said that she was done fighting us. She completely conceded defeat. That was over ten years ago, and they have largely left us alone since then.

 

So that's the story of how I became to fully understand the left wing elite environmentalist. They are pointy headed pedagogues, who sit in an office and apply their incomplete knowledge of a situation to completely deny us of our rights to use our lands. They start off with small requests, which become larger and larger with the hopes that they will roll over us with litigation and paper. Uncompromising.

 

I once saw a bumper sticker that read "when we run out of paper, I'll wipe my ass with a spotted owl." I thought about that for years, and was finally turned by the very group that was supposed to help protect our lands. Ultimately, users are the best protectors, not pencil pushers.

 

Here's a pic of one of my LC builds, sitting on that bridge at Ellis Creek. The million dollar bridge.

 

[john510]

3 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Our local gift to the world was "Jeeping", thanks to Mark Smith and a handful of local guys, back in the early 1950s. Their chosen path became known as the Rubicon Trail. I think everyone here has probably heard of the Rubicon. It's famous 'round the world and we get many foreigners every year to prove it. So famous, that it became the target of...I forget the name of the group, but it's a group who's mission is to protect the wilderness. The leader of the group is named Karen Schambach.

 

Karen's methods of attaining intel were atrocious. She had hikers go along the trial making friends with people in their crawlers and taking pics of them, which she used in her propaganda. At a local hearing, she was quoted saying essentially the same thing as I blame Mitch McConnell saying, that no matter what, she would close the trail. No compromise.

 

One huge thing we had going for us is that technically speaking, the Rubicon is a public highway. That helped a ton, but she was relentless. At another hearing, she would speak about off-roaders as if they hated the wilderness. Why else would someone want to come out and destroy nature, right? A guy I know stood up at that hearing and proclaimed, "Wait a minute. You guys think we hate the nature? No, we love it. That's why we're here trying to keep it open for use!" It was apparently obvious to the environmentalists that our type of people must hate the woods, which is why we like to destroy it.

 

Her coup de grace or her "Rubicon", pardon the pun, was to have us build a bridge over Ellis Creek, instead of driving through it. Ellis Creek is a tiny splash of water that flows year round, but in the summer months, is not much more than a couple feet across. But she persisted. She designed this bridge and said that we had to pay for it. It is a massive structure and cost a cool million to build, which was raised by off-roading groups, including our own Rubicon Trail Foundation. The thing is, she thought we rednecks would never be able to raise the funds, meaning ultimate failure on our part and her victory. The trail would have been closed. Period.

 

In her last press release, she actually commended us on our efforts and said that she was done fighting us. She completely conceded defeat. That was over ten years ago, and they have largely left us alone since then.

 

So that's the story of how I became to fully understand the left wing elite environmentalist. They are pointy headed pedagogues, who sit in an office and apply their incomplete knowledge of a situation to completely deny us of our rights to use our lands. They start off with small requests, which become larger and larger with the hopes that they will roll over us with litigation and paper. Uncompromising.

 

I once saw a bumper sticker that read "when we run out of paper, I'll wipe my ass with a spotted owl." I thought about that for years, and was finally turned by the very group that was supposed to help protect our lands. Ultimately, users are the best protectors, not pencil pushers.

 

Here's a pic of one of my LC builds, sitting on that bridge at Ellis Creek. The million dollar bridge.

 

I'll take a guess that it would be The Sierra Club that forced the bridge to be built ? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Just now, john510 said:

I'll take a guess that it would be The Sierra Club that forced the bridge to be built ? 

No actually, but I hate them too.

 

Hate? ok...loathe.

[Mattndew76]

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2012/03/judge-wont-seize-bill-clinton-taylor-branch-audiotapes-116074

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/old-case-over-audio-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact

 

Perfect example of how the President of the United states has the sole discretion to determine what are his personal documents and declassification powers. NOT THE ARCHIVE. 

 

No other entity within the US government has the power like this over the Executive official.  Trump was and still is innocent of this bullshit. 

 

Justice Amy Berman Jackson adjudicated a ruling of this type in 2012 and the precedence has never been appealed or challenged. 

 

 

[datzenmike]

22 hours ago, john510 said:

  Honestly the only problem I saw with Obama at the time was his healthcare plan

 

What about his choice of Veep??? huh???

[Mattndew76]

3 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

What about his choice of Veep??? huh???

 

Or choice of Secretary of State???? Massive criminal...

[Logical1]

50 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The leader of the group is named Karen Schambach.

 

A annoying, self righteous, whiner named Karen... Coincidence? 

[dhp123166]

1 hour ago, Mattndew76 said:

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2012/03/judge-wont-seize-bill-clinton-taylor-branch-audiotapes-116074

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/old-case-over-audio-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact

 

Perfect example of how the President of the United states has the sole discretion to determine what are his personal documents and declassification powers. NOT THE ARCHIVE. 

 

No other entity within the US government has the power like this over the Executive official.  Trump was and still is innocent of this bullshit. 

 

Justice Amy Berman Jackson adjudicated a ruling of this type in 2012 and the precedence has never been appealed or challenged. 

 

 

 

 

This has to be a troll. You are not even trying anymore.

 

The claim that the President gives a President the right to take any record and declare them personal is a glaring misrepresentation of the law.

 

The law, which took effect in 1981, requires the preservation of White House documents as property of the U.S. government.

Jason R. Baron, a former director of litigation at the National Archives and Records Administration, said that the notion that a president could declare any record as personal goes against the “very reason” the law was created. NARA is the federal record-keeper and the agency that repeatedly sought the documents kept by Trump.

 

Congress passed the act in 1978 in the aftermath of the Watergate scandal, when a collection of secret tapes that President Richard Nixon had considered destroying played a defining role.

 

The law, he and other experts note, clearly distinguishes between “presidential records” and “personal records.”

 

“The definition of ‘personal records’ is narrow, clear, and functional: it includes only records of a ‘purely private or nonpublic character’,” Peter Margulies, a professor at Roger Williams University’s School of Law in Bristol, Rhode Island, wrote in an email. “Any record that touches on information relevant to presidential decisions on foreign policy or national security is a presidential record. Period, end of story.”

Josh Chafetz, a professor at Georgetown Law, agreed, saying there’s “simply no way” the records described in the indictment against Trump could be considered “personal” under the act’s definitions.

 

 AP NEWS

 

The documents Bill Clinton had in his possession were considered "personal" and not "presidential" as they were materials related to the production of his autobiography.

 

The subjects of the Tre45on documents which are all marked "SECRET" or "TOP SECRET" can in no rational way be construed as "personal".

 

Even if by some remarkable leap in logic, these documents were considered "personal" and not "presidential" and the President was found to have been able to declassify while he was president ( which he self admittedly did not do) a number of the documents deal with nuclear weapons

 

Nuclear documents are a whole different ball of wax. Classification of these documents is by statute, not by EO 13526 or its predecessors. Specifically, these are classified directly via the Atomic Energy Act.

 

I stated it before and I will state again that the assertion that Tre45on had a right to keep these documents is, and in the context of this investigation, quite completely insane.

 

What is totally hilarious is that Tre45on is getting this erroneous advice from Tom Fitton who is the President of Judicial Watch and definitely not a lawyer.

 

In the " Politico" article you posted  above here is what Tom Fitton stated in 2012 at the result of Judge Bermans decision;

 

"We respectfully disagree with the Court," Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton told POLITICO via e-mail Thursday. "The idea that a president could spirit official recordings and documents out of the White House and that there is nothing that can be legally done about it is a misreading of the Presidential Records Act.  It is ironic that a law passed in response to the Nixon tapes controversy would allow Bill Clinton to keep tapes of his official actions secret and unavailable to the American people.  And it is shameful that the ‘most transparent administration in history’  would defend this gamesmanship.  We are considering an appeal.”

 

White man speak with forked tongue indeed.

 

DP

Edited June 16, 2023 by dhp123166