Bluehandsinc/fab shutting down

[mklotz70]

I may come back and explain more later, but I thought I'd put the word out.  I will no longer be making parts or doing work for others.  The rewards are minuscule and the risks are way too high.

 

I've been working up to this decision for quite some time.  I really looked at the numbers this last weekend and decided to pull the trigger.  I thought about ramping up, but that would take even more time and money.  I've had this second job for a lot of years and the numbers I saw prove that it's just not worth it.....and I'm tired, LOL.  I've enjoyed it for the most part and I really, really appreciate all those that have supported me in this over the years!!!  I will still be designing and building for my personal projects, so Instagram(bluehandsvideo) and YouTube(bluehandsvideo) will not see much of a change at all.  I will actually be putting more work into my YT channel.  The fact that I can do the work once and continue to get paid by it, makes it the far better investment of my time and effort. :)  Anyway.....there were a few more reasons and considerations, but that's basically it in a nut shell.  Once the parts sell out on my site, they're gone.  

 

Yes, I still plan on remaining active with Datsuns.....at least as much as I have been. :)  

Mike

[wayno]

That's too bad, this is going to leave a big hole in brake solutions for early Datsun trucks and other early Datsuns.

[Mattndew76]

Mike I have a spot reserved on the Datsun part retirement porch swing waiting .

 

I would like to start a YT channel and need to pick tour brain some time. 

[hobospyder]

Take care of you Mike, it's a big hole but somebody will eventually step up and fill it again

[datzenmike]

All good things come to an end.... eventually. It's regrettable... but a good decision for you, Mike, and I'm sure not made lightly. There's no money in it and only the love of doing it that probably drives you. We're not getting any younger either.

[mklotz70]

Thanks guys!!  Zero time that last couple of days.....I'll try to get back to this by this weekend. :)

[BrothersGarage]

Best of luck on the transition, and well earned retirement.

One thing of note: Youtube has not been fair to it's creators for a long while now and many creators have had their videos demonetized for no reason. Because of this I would also suggest setting up a https://www.patreon.com/ account where people can donate to you to support your channel & content. 

[mklotz70]

Thanks!

I've considered Patreon for some time now.  My personal feeling is that the subscribers should get something special....more than just early access to the same video that will be put on youtube.  I haven't done Patreon because I wasn't in a position to provide that special content for them.  As I settle into this change, I may find that I can provide that and then I'll definitely see about setting that up. :)

 

 

[thisismatt]

Mike, that's too bad.  I've always thought that you had some great potential for some cool parts, but I know there aren't always the buyers to make it worth your while. It seems like you've been taking on a lot of one-off jobs.

[G-Duax]

What I have seen over the years is that for every 10 people on a forum who say "Make them, I'll buy one", that maybe 1  will actually buy.

People who have never made anything from a raw chunk of material just don't understand the work involved, including things like locating material, cutting tools needed, design time, including things that don't quite come out as planned, and having to start over, even when done on CAD.

That's why commercial machine shops charge by the hour to prototype an item, and that gets expensive.

I feel for you Mike.

Thanks for the effort !

[Dguy210]

6 hours ago, G-Duax said:

What I have seen over the years is that for every 10 people on a forum who say "Make them, I'll buy one", that maybe 1  will actually buy.

People who have never made anything from a raw chunk of material just don't understand the work involved, including things like locating material, cutting tools needed, design time, including things that don't quite come out as planned, and having to start over, even when done on CAD.

That's why commercial machine shops charge by the hour to prototype an item, and that gets expensive.

I feel for you Mike.

Thanks for the effort !

 

This so much.

 

Even on relatively easy to assemble low-cost to high-profit items it can be hard to make a decent wage.

 

Also, sometimes you get less than happy feelings if you give someone a good deal or extra parts just to watch them flip it for a quick buck.

 

Turning hobby time into a minimum wage job with responsibilities is just not how most people want to relax. 

 

Thanks for all the stuff you made over the years Mike, I even have one of your 1200 brake adapters I bought a few years ago, I might even get around to installing it at some point.

[Mattndew76]

15 hours ago, G-Duax said:

What I have seen over the years is that for every 10 people on a forum who say "Make them, I'll buy one", that maybe 1  will actually buy.

People who have never made anything from a raw chunk of material just don't understand the work involved, including things like locating material, cutting tools needed, design time, including things that don't quite come out as planned, and having to start over, even when done on CAD.

That's why commercial machine shops charge by the hour to prototype an item, and that gets expensive.

I feel for you Mike.

Thanks for the effort !

 

ha ha ha  this is exactly how it goes. 

 

I know people mean well and have all the intention to buy an item, but generally speak before they can afford anything. For now I will only be putting custom Datsun CNC items on my cars, and if people want what I have then its going to be a premium to make it worth my time to make extra. 

 

Mike make the things that bring you joy. Then make or don't make deals where you want. Charge a minimum of $100 per hour for shop time. You are worth that. 

[Farmer]

What Matt said

[mklotz70]

I'm hoping to have time to come back and address these Sat or Sun morning......working 6 days this week.

 

[Draker]

Man.. too bad. You made great parts. Although, I was never a customer of those parts, you helped me with some other stuff. I appreciate it every time I hop into my 510. I completely understand though. It takes a lot of time and effort, and ultimately your time is worth something. If you are making less than your day job... its just not worth it.

 

Best of luck mike! Now you have more time for your own projects.

 

 

[mklotz70]

On 4/23/2019 at 9:21 PM, wayno said:

That's too bad, this is going to leave a big hole in brake solutions for early Datsun trucks and other early Datsuns.

 

It will leave a hole since they won't be produced, but I'm actually going to continue to follow through on some of the brake designs I've wanted to do for quite some time.  Who knows at this point.....maybe someone else will step up and take over building parts based on my designs.  I'd have to have everything made outside of my shop which would cost a lot more. That's the main reason I doubt it will be me doing that or having that done.  Probably the biggest reason for this change is that I've got everything at risk by doing it at home.  The next reason is the potential to be held liable for failures.  Even if I don't produce the parts, there's still a chance that the design could come back to haunt me.  Since I don't have an LLC, I'm not protected and there's just not enough money in any of this to justify creating one.  I'm still looking to create "one offs" and prototypes as content for you channel.  Since I can't use them all, someone may end up with them.  I'll still be looking for reimbursement on the materials and special tooling....youtube doesn't pay that much!! LOL  ......and I'll probably come up with some kind of liability waiver I'll want signed to prove that they know it's a prototype and that they're taking responsibility for anything arising from it's use.  I still plan to "overbuild" anytime or way that I can, but I need more separation........otherwise, it will become wall art. :)  

 

On 4/24/2019 at 2:20 AM, Mattndew76 said:

Mike I have a spot reserved on the Datsun part retirement porch swing waiting .

 

I would like to start a YT channel and need to pick tour brain some time. 

 

Thanks! I'm only retiring from the production side.....which is the part of this that I never really wanted to do to begin with. lol   You can contact me via pm's on ratsun or there's a contact page on my site....for now.....which will use email....typically a bit nicer for longer conversations.

 

On 4/24/2019 at 4:25 AM, hobospyder said:

Take care of you Mike, it's a big hole but somebody will eventually step up and fill it again

 

Thanks!!  I'll still be around. Heck....I might even have more time to be around a bit more. We'll see.  My designs will have to change, at least some, or the "liability" aspect taken over somehow, but if someone is in a position to have them created elsewhere, I'd consider options to help that happen.

 

On 4/24/2019 at 5:49 AM, datzenmike said:

All good things come to an end.... eventually. It's regrettable... but a good decision for you, Mike, and I'm sure not made lightly. There's no money in it and only the love of doing it that probably drives you. We're not getting any younger either.

 

Thanks Mike.  It's been on my mind for years now.  Every other month....sometimes day, I've considered this.  I'm just finally facing the reality of what has needed to be done.  The drive has always been the excuse to create something new. That's the part I love.....and will continue to do.  The production side was partly to be the "hero" and partly to make it affordable to do.  Anytime I make a part, others want it, so I'd produce some which would cover mine.  But....I hardly have any of my stuff on Paula's truck.....which should change. :)    With the amount of stress that's starting to lift off of me......I think I might actually start feeling a bit younger!! LOL :)

[mklotz70]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:04 PM, thisismatt said:

Mike, that's too bad.  I've always thought that you had some great potential for some cool parts, but I know there aren't always the buyers to make it worth your while. It seems like you've been taking on a lot of one-off jobs.

 

On 4/25/2019 at 1:31 PM, G-Duax said:

What I have seen over the years is that for every 10 people on a forum who say "Make them, I'll buy one", that maybe 1  will actually buy.

People who have never made anything from a raw chunk of material just don't understand the work involved, including things like locating material, cutting tools needed, design time, including things that don't quite come out as planned, and having to start over, even when done on CAD.

That's why commercial machine shops charge by the hour to prototype an item, and that gets expensive.

I feel for you Mike.

Thanks for the effort !

 

On 4/25/2019 at 8:15 PM, Dguy210 said:

 

This so much.

 

Even on relatively easy to assemble low-cost to high-profit items it can be hard to make a decent wage.

 

Also, sometimes you get less than happy feelings if you give someone a good deal or extra parts just to watch them flip it for a quick buck.

 

Turning hobby time into a minimum wage job with responsibilities is just not how most people want to relax. 

 

Thanks for all the stuff you made over the years Mike, I even have one of your 1200 brake adapters I bought a few years ago, I might even get around to installing it at some point.

 

I haven't had that happen with parts I've made, but definitely with used parts!  

I agree.....not how I want to relax......had it been even in the ball park of minimum wage, I might have been a lot happier! LOL  If you count all the CAD/CAM time, prep work, time answering questions and correspondence, packing and shipping time........I seriously doubt I even made $2/hr over the time I've done this.  BUT......I don't think I actually lost any either.  I don't count the equipment or tooling costs.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 5:16 AM, Mattndew76 said:

 

ha ha ha  this is exactly how it goes. 

 

I know people mean well and have all the intention to buy an item, but generally speak before they can afford anything. For now I will only be putting custom Datsun CNC items on my cars, and if people want what I have then its going to be a premium to make it worth my time to make extra. 

 

Mike make the things that bring you joy. Then make or don't make deals where you want. Charge a minimum of $100 per hour for shop time. You are worth that. 

 

I've had a few issues with that over the years. Heck, one guy promised he was buying a brake kit.....I told him since he was, I'd let him have a couple of other parts for dirt cheap.....he showed up to buy the dirt cheap parts and then at that time told me he couldn't get the brake kit.......I will NOT miss that kind of crap!! LOL  I've also had exactly what you're talking about....had at least 6 guys contact me about wanting a certain part.....once I made them at my expense, I contacted them.....got ghosted by 3 of them and the other 3 said they couldn't. lol  They eventually sold, but it tied up a chunk of my "play" money while they sat on the shelf.  

 

I have enjoyed most of the parts I've made.....at least the first couple.  Once I've made a couple of the same, then it gets tedious!!  That's when I want someone else to babysit the machine so that I can move on to the next design.

 

Thanks!! I'd love to charge that.  I've been trying to get $50/hr for the machining time, but even when I get that, I rarely make anything on the hours and hours of design time.  Even on parts that take 2-3hrs of machining time, I end up with 2-3x's that on the CAD/CAM time.  Do you charge the same on the design end of things?  It's just for future info.  I would like to start up a shop again down the road some time, but it's just not an option right now.

 

 

On 4/26/2019 at 10:37 PM, Draker said:

Man.. too bad. You made great parts. Although, I was never a customer of those parts, you helped me with some other stuff. I appreciate it every time I hop into my 510. I completely understand though. It takes a lot of time and effort, and ultimately your time is worth something. If you are making less than your day job... its just not worth it.

 

Best of luck mike! Now you have more time for your own projects.

 

 

 

Thank you!!!  I appreciate that!  I always wanted to make some 510 parts, but I never had the time to get to them.  I only have my wife's 521 now, so it's really unlikely that I'll be designing any 510 parts.  Making less than my day job........... LOL.....yep.....my daughter makes more at her new part time job at the arcade. :)  It wasn't completely about the money for most of the time....but it had to be a factor in deciding to continue or quit. 

Thanks!!!  I'm definitely looking forward to working on some new projects.  Some will be because I need/want them.....some will be simply because I've wanted to do them all these years and never got to them.  Since I was involved with Fineline(Brandon) on his very first iteration of the big brakes with the passport rotor, I've always wanted to create my own version of the bracket.  That's one part that I'll probably design/build just "because" and will become wall art.  It's pretty low on the list right now, so we'll see if it happens. :)

[Mattndew76]

““Thanks!! I'd love to charge that.  I've been trying to get $50/hr for the machining time, but even when I get that, I rarely make anything on the hours and hours of design time.  Even on parts that take 2-3hrs of machining time, I end up with 2-3x's that on the CAD/CAM time.  Do you charge the same on the design end of things?  It's just for future info.  I would like to start up a shop again down the road some time, but it's just not an option right now.“”

 

if i I have an established part and I know button to button load times I charge $60.00 per hour + cost of tools + cost of material + cost of mileage for material pickup. 

 

First time (complex) setup and machine work is $100.00 per hour with secondary costs.

 

CAM design work is $125.00 per hour. No secondary since it’s mostly ass time. 

[]2eDeYe]

5 hours ago, mklotz70 said:

 

 

Thanks!! I'd love to charge that.  I've been trying to get $50/hr for the machining time, but even when I get that, I rarely make anything on the hours and hours of design time.  Even on parts that take 2-3hrs of machining time, I end up with 2-3x's that on the CAD/CAM time.  Do you charge the same on the design end of things?  It's just for future info.  I would like to start up a shop again down the road some time, but it's just not an option right now.

 

 

 

 

Matt covered it, but ya Engineering time is about the same per hr as machining when broken down.
At least at a CAD/Machine shop level, and not all engineering time is seat time at a CAD machine :)

[mklotz70]

Thanks guys! That's awesome info.  With a bit of luck....and if I start up again.....I'm hoping to be good enough to charge those kinds of rates....I guess it partly depends on overhead costs.  I don't really have any right now.  That and I'm still pretty slow at it....that's why I was only charging what I did. :)

 

[69srl311]

Thanks Mike for the Altima vented rotor kit I put on my Roadster.  It now stops with no brake fade!!

[opalbeetle]

Good luck to you as you travel the next fork in the road!  I am lucky to have been able to get the brake kit for my 710 that you figured out a while ago (though the car still isn't mobile...yet) and looking forward to knowing that I will stop easily!  Thanks for your curiosity, cleverness and willingness to get stuff done for this community.

 

All the best!

 

 

[mklotz70]

7 hours ago, 69srl311 said:

Thanks Mike for the Altima vented rotor kit I put on my Roadster.  It now stops with no brake fade!!

You're more than welcome!!  I've still got a bunch of them left.  :(  I think I've only sold one....maybe two in the last couple of years.  Maybe that guy in Canada that copied my setup has sold a bunch more? LOL  

[mklotz70]

1 hour ago, opalbeetle said:

Good luck to you as you travel the next fork in the road!  I am lucky to have been able to get the brake kit for my 710 that you figured out a while ago (though the car still isn't mobile...yet) and looking forward to knowing that I will stop easily!  Thanks for your curiosity, cleverness and willingness to get stuff done for this community.

 

All the best!

 

 

Thanks!! :)  
I still have a box of these too! LOL  I never got around to doing anything with them after we got yours done.  Might have to pull them out and see if I can sell a few of them before I shut the site down. :)

Are you going to the "new" Canby at Powerland this year?  

[opalbeetle]

6 minutes ago, mklotz70 said:

Thanks!! 🙂
I still have a box of these too! LOL  I never got around to doing anything with them after we got yours done.  Might have to pull them out and see if I can sell a few of them before I shut the site down. 🙂

Are you going to the "new" Canby at Powerland this year?  

Well, as much as I'd love to go to a show in June,  I'm an educator and cannot take the time off at that time of the year as it's kinda busy around here making decisions and planning for next year!  But, I am not far from retirement and if it's still a thing when I am done...It's on my bucket list.

 

But, I am currently planning on being in Portland next February for a conference and perhaps I could look you up while I'm there!?