Jump to content

Cuz Merica

Ratwagon1600

By Ratwagon1600
in General Discussion

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 28k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • KoHeartsGPA

    2561

  • datzenmike

    2330

  • Draker

    2054

  • a.d._510_n_ok

    2012

Top Posters In This Topic

paradime Veteran

paradime

Posted
Posted

You know the answer and that why you are asking it. Irrelevant. I have about 3 generations of Life Experience and it tells me that it's wrong to execute people that are unarmed. Police are paid to stand in harm's way and risk their lives, that's their job. If they can't do their jobs without shooting first they should try something else. Seems like in the last while, maybe through a failure of society to care or bad training or the failed judicial system, they resort to killing first and rarely have to answer for it. 

 

Hey if this was a known murderer, rapist, child molester recidivist felon piece of shit armed and shooting at them after killing a grocery store owner he just robbed, fine it's clear cut. This was someone standing up for what he believed (right or wrong) against a crushing oppressive government and couldn't possibly have gotten away. Was no harm to anyone. Wasn't on a shooting rampage, was identified and had no where to go. Didn't he have kids in the car or something? wtf???? Where's the common sense restraint??? Worst thing they could do was to make a martyr. That shit never goes away. They fucked up yet again.

 

  Keep in mind, we view this though our own subjective perspective, and to some degree we always see what we want to see. It's all too easy to forget, the officers were not in the same detached analytical state as us viewers. We have the overhead vantage point from the chopper, and seeing inside the suburban. The cops were waiting on the road to stop an unknown quantity of resistance from a wagon load of people. Now, imagine it's your job to take Lavoy into custody for the crime of seizing public property with other armed militants. The cops didn't know it was a bunch of women and children. BTW, WTF is that about? You've been hold up in an armed standoff with federal agents, you know you're wanted by the law, and you bring a bunch of girls as a cushion to see the Sherif. I have no respect for this man.

 

   An officer/agent was hit when Lavoy attempted to go around the blockade, and that razed the tension level. From then on, Lavoy's words were repeated over and over "You're going to have to shoot me!". he may have approached the agent with his arms up, but he was not surrendering. As soon as he turned and reached into his jacket, it was clear even with my shitty eyes he provoked a lethal response. I think Lavoy framed this in black and white, let me go, or shoot me, and in the end he got what he wanted. With the fire power the cops had, they could have killed everyone in the suburban 10X over. There were sounds of a lot of shots fired, but they were bean bags fired at the glass, and tear gas fired in to flush them out. Again, if any of that fire was live rounds, those people would be dead.

 

If the stupid ass cops need to fuck with the truth to save their skin, obviously they did something wrong. Lock them up. Do I think this was a conspiracy to execute this guy? Not even close to being convinced of that. Is my Government corrupt and oppressive? It is absolutely, but instead of helping the cause, Lavoy will go down in history as an ego maniacal shit stain. You can only hold the higher ground of righteousness with honor. Lavoy was defiant, but he had no honor to back it up.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Mattndew76 Mentor

Mattndew76

Posted
Posted

  Keep in mind, we view this though our own subjective perspective, and to some degree we always see what we want to see. It's all too easy to forget, the officers were not in the same detached analytical state as us viewers. We have the overhead vantage point from the chopper, and seeing inside the suburban. The cops were waiting on the road to stop an unknown quantity of resistance from a wagon load of people. Now, imagine it's your job to take Lavoy into custody for the crime of seizing public property with other armed militants. The cops didn't know it was a bunch of women and children. BTW, WTF is that about? You've been hold up in an armed standoff with federal agents, you know you're wanted by the law, and you bring a bunch of girls as a cushion to see the Sherif. I have no respect for this man.

 

   An officer/agent was hit when Lavoy attempted to go around the blockade, and that razed the tension level. From then on, Lavoy's words were repeated over and over "You're going to have to shoot me!". he may have approached the agent with his arms up, but he was not surrendering. As soon as he turned and reached into his jacket, it was clear even with my shitty eyes he provoked a lethal response. I think Lavoy framed this in black and white, let me go, or shoot me, and in the end he got what he wanted. With the fire power the cops had, they could have killed everyone in the suburban 10X over. There were sounds of a lot of shots fired, but they were bean bags fired at the glass, and tear gas fired in to flush them out. Again, if any of that fire was live rounds, those people would be dead.

 

If the stupid ass cops need to fuck with the truth to save their skin, obviously they did something wrong. Lock them up. Do I think this was a conspiracy to execute this guy? Not even close to being convinced of that. Is my Government corrupt and oppressive? It is absolutely, but instead of helping the cause, Lavoy will go down in history as an ego maniacal shit stain. You can only hold the higher ground of righteousness with honor. Lavoy was defiant, but he had no honor to back it up.

 

He did give everyone in the vehicle a choice to exit. So the shield scenario is false. Even the women are the ones that said drive off. So they are not victims of the circumstance either or without decision to wager their lives. These are details we will unintentionally ignore because we have come to our opined conclusion or have a soft spot for the "defenseless women". Listen to their dialogue and don't focus on the dead guy. Shit stain is still not accurate. there was no forced situation on any of these people other than the road block.

 

 Regardless of his words as he exited or said from the vehicle gives no merit to end his life. His gesture for a cross conceal was in all essence a shoot-able defense by the LEO's, and standard. The officer who was caught in the snow plow stop was of his own fault for trying to be a meat wall, and shooting at the rig. Lavoy did not aim his vehicle at this man. The video shows the LEO moving into the path and getting blasted with snow. 

 

Was the confrontation pressed to be violent?. Again these guys could have been arrested the day before in the Sheriffs office.  All of the leaders met with the FBI and Sheriff several times before this happened. So tell me who picked the means for the end?

 

 

This was intended to be a show of force to quell the growing numbers of upset people. Hit them hard and scare the rest away.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
paradime Veteran

paradime

Posted
Posted

In this situation, there were local, county, state, and federal agencies working under very different mandates and motivations. Lavoy may have met with the FBI and Sharif earlier, but it was the Oregon State police that put up the road block. I hear what you're saying Matt, and you make very good points, but Lavoy knew he was under inditement and in danger of being arrested. In that situation, is it honorable to bring two kids with you? At that moment, would you ask "does anybody wants to get out?", or would you say "Everybody out, this is my shit storm."? 

Link to comment
Mattndew76 Mentor

Mattndew76

Posted
Posted

The road block was not in their plan when they left the wild life refuge either. This was a variable that was not explored or planned for when the group left. It wasn't a single individual making choices for everyone. 

 

I understand what you are saying, but stop giving blame to a single person. They are all accountable individually for where they ended up. These people didn't know the road block was up ahead as they left. So where would the worry of being shot come from? From behind the vehicle as they had point in the column of cars. Once the road block became Visible Levoy exited the vehicle (under fire) drawing muzzles in his direction.

 

So really why is he a shit stain? He had not a clue about what was ahead, only knowledge of what was behind. He even stated they (LEO's) could follow him all the way into see the Sheriff..... He stated his intent. "I am going to meet the sheriff.  You can either follow me, or shoot me dead. Because I am right here."  Paraphrased before they left the first stop. 

 

Saying he premeditated his intent to use these people as shields is not at all accurate. These are all people who believed in the same cause....Isn't it possible to be culpable in ones own actions? 

 

To plan for what went down as you see it. Would have been like planning to head outside to get struck by lightning, and using everyone around you as protection from it. This was a surprise and caught everyone off guard. He didn't use anyone as collateral insurance.

Link to comment
Mattndew76 Mentor

Mattndew76

Posted
Posted

This is the slippery slope that is only to get worse.

 

 "Its not our fault for being this way, so give us a pass on our transgressions." , "White privilege caused this........." , "The reason this happened is because of ___________."

 

Accountability is a myth.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Jesse C. Mentor

Jesse C.

Posted
Posted

Damn, I could have just robbed people for money instead of working when I was a kid? Why was I not made aware of this right? 

 

What the fuck was wrong with me, working legally since I was 16 to make money to buy things I wanted that my parents where not going to pay for, like cool clothes and shit! 

 

Fuck this, time to go get my fair share! 

 

d21013d7cca1f95a81bca58652163385.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
paradime Veteran

paradime

Posted
Posted

 

 


The road block was not in their plan when they left the wild life refuge either. This was a variable that was not explored or planned for when the group left. It wasn't a single individual making choices for everyone. 
 
I understand what you are saying, but stop giving blame to a single person. They are all accountable individually for where they ended up. These people didn't know the road block was up ahead as they left. So where would the worry of being shot come from? From behind the vehicle as they had point in the column of cars. Once the road block became Visible Levoy exited the vehicle (under fire) drawing muzzles in his direction.
 
So really why is he a shit stain? He had not a clue about what was ahead, only knowledge of what was behind. He even stated they (LEO's) could follow him all the way into see the Sheriff..... He stated his intent. "I am going to meet the sheriff.  You can either follow me, or shoot me dead. Because I am right here."  Paraphrased before they left the first stop. 
 
Saying he premeditated his intent to use these people as shields is not at all accurate. These are all people who believed in the same cause....Isn't it possible to be culpable in ones own actions? 
 
To plan for what went down as you see it. Would have been like planning to head outside to get struck by lightning, and using everyone around you as protection from it. This was a surprise and caught everyone off guard. He didn't use anyone as collateral insurance.
 

 

We are viewing this through our own perspective, but I will concede my use of the word cushion was extreme. From what I understand, Lavoy was on his way to the Sharif to negotiate being taken into custody by county law enforcement so he could evade Federal custody. We don't know what they planned or didn't plan for, but I believe Lavoy knew his lot, and was trying to manipulate the situation to get his way. I will be the first to admit Matt, as a parent, I am bias here. Once the car was stopped by State Police, those kids should have been out of the car right there and then. After the adults talked about drive away, more than once you can hear a scared kid saying "They'll shoot the tires out!". That was a voice of dissent that was ignored. Lavoy was diving, and by doing so, he assumed responsibility for his passengers. He could have ordered them out at any time, but didn't. He could have stopped at the road block, but instead he chose to evade custody buy trying to go around. If there is culpability for one's actions in that situation, I believe Lavoy holds the greatest responsibility in this event. As for the shit stain in history comment, only history will tell, but I sure don't see any heroes here. 

Link to comment
tr8er Rookie

tr8er

Posted
Posted

I truly appreciate how oppositional, yet civil this thread remains.  Thank you to all the folks who I disagree with for sharing your opinions.  The ones I agree with too, but mainly the wrong people I disagree with.  

 

And the robbery:  The interviewed people really didn't help.  At all.  I do mourn the death of a kid learning lessons, and I wish he had a hard lesson that corrected him, but he fucked up and got caught wetted.  If cops were faster to respond, and tried to catch these types of criminals, people wouldn't feel obligated to take these measures.  But perhaps we shouldn't rely on them to deal with these small criminals either.  This shouldn't be Black/White.  This is theft.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
KoHeartsGPA Newbie

KoHeartsGPA

Posted
Posted

I truly appreciate how oppositional, yet civil this thread remains.  Thank you to all the folks who I disagree with for sharing your opinions.  The ones I agree with too, but mainly the wrong people I disagree with.  

 

And the robbery:  The interviewed people really didn't help.  At all.  I do mourn the death of a kid learning lessons, and I wish he had a hard lesson that corrected him, but he fucked up and got caught wetted.  If cops were faster to respond, and tried to catch these types of criminals, people wouldn't feel obligated to take these measures.  But perhaps we shouldn't rely on them to deal with these small criminals either.  This shouldn't be Black/White.  This is theft.

 

Agreed 100%, unfortunately the media doesn't agree with us,they are driven by sensationalism ....

Link to comment
datzenmike Grand Master

datzenmike

Posted
Posted

I truly appreciate how oppositional, yet civil this thread remains.  Thank you to all the folks who I disagree with for sharing your opinions.  The ones I agree with too, but mainly the wrong people I disagree with.  

 

 

 

I agree. I used to just close these because.... they always went south. I've had great fun here trolling, semi trolling and trading comments and views back and forth. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
RatVonDude Apprentice

RatVonDude

Posted
Posted

I agree. I used to just close these because.... they always went south. I've had great fun here trolling, semi trolling and trading comments and views back and forth. 

 

 

5e0b713b-5c96-462c-9aba-b7e887db3117_zps

 

 

these used to be pyrimids, destroyed by the British

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.

  I accept