Fisch's 1959 Datsun 1000 project! Peeking in the oilpan!

[bonvo]

the painless would give you all NEW wiring threwout the whole car no need to worry about tracing shorts or anything of that sort and you also get modern relays and fuses that are more compact and better all around (i would love to ditch my glass fuses) and the best part you can go to a negitive ground which would make your life easier

[67411sss]

I had a friend help me get my roadster going (no spark at the points) last week and while we were working on the car his friend came over, turns out he is a workshop teacher at the local high school. He held the coil lead just off the coil and explained that really increased the voltage resulting in a much stronger spark. I don't really understand it , but my car is now going:) Maybe worth a try?

[Jester]

Scott, I hate to ask this. I have been keeping with this thread from the start. BUT, I don't recall if you put new ignition parts on or not. I am guessing not sence you said you sanded the points. Why not start there?

My thought aside from this is that your condencor is shot. They have been known to go bad with no warning leading to irradic spark.

Perhaps the wires are shot. Try this; At night, spray the ignition wires (plug wires) with a little water. Now try to start it and watch for the spark show. Even a brand new set of cheap wires will give you a cool night time show.

Lets face it, your going to drive this thing all over the place. Give it the good stuff now and eliminate some the possibilities.

[fisch]

At the rate I am going I will get there Jes! The reality is all this chasing is more just because I was curious if it would run as is. And just wanted to see if what it had, worked. Know what I mean?

 

I honestly didn't think it would get this close. I figured it wouldn't work and I would go ahead with the engine swap. But then the compression tested good, then I fixed the solinoid. Now I seem to have fixed the starter. And am suddenly getting some spark with a little sandpaper on the points.

 

Yeah I probably should have just got all new ignition stuff. (Though I have done wires and plugs at least!) But I gotta see if what is in there will work! I mean, wouldn't it be a riot if this car that has been sitting in the desert since 1968 fired with little more than spark plug wires, plugs, and a new bendix for the starter?

 

And I didn't want to put much money into a 37 hp engine that I will more than likely yank, eventually.

 

But now that I am this close, I realize I have to drive it the way it was made, at least a little while, if for nothing else, just to feel the improvement when I do a swap! So if it needs to be replaced I will replace it.

 

Also, there are many more things that will have to be invested in. Brakes, windshield, shocks, windshield wiper... on and on. And if this engine was a lost cause, I didn't want to take resources from other areas.:lol:

[Edz280zx]

Keep chuggin' along man!

[fisch]

Woah dudes I just read some serious scary sh*t about starter fluid! I had no idea as I've never used it before. I am glad it didn't start! I think I got lucky. I have standing fluid in the manifold. I had way too much in there! Though I just used it a few seconds at a time it didn't evaporate with teh throttle closed. Phew.

 

I need to pull the plugs and let that stuff evaporate out of there before I go any further! I will hook up a gas line.

 

(It even takes the lube off of cylinder walls.)

[Jester]

At the rate I am going I will get there Jes! The reality is all this chasing is more just because I was curious if it would run as is. And just wanted to see if what it had, worked. Know what I mean?

 

I honestly didn't think it would get this close. I figured it wouldn't work and I would go ahead with the engine swap. But then the compression tested good, then I fixed the solinoid. Now I seem to have fixed the starter. And am suddenly getting some spark with a little sandpaper on the points.

 

Yeah I probably should have just got all new ignition stuff. (Though I have done wires and plugs at least!) But I gotta see if what is in there will work! I mean, wouldn't it be a riot if this car that has been sitting in the desert since 1968 fired with little more than spark plug wires, plugs, and a new bendix for the starter?

 

I SSOOOOO understand! My first Jeep was a 1948 Willys 2A. When I went to Sherwood High school (class of '87) I use to go bug this poor old boy all the time about selling me his Jeep. He ALWAYS said NO!! IT'S NOT FOR SALE!!

In '93 when we bought our first house I was driving by, heading for my parents house, and noticed a for sale sign on the old boys place. (his place is now the smog check in Sherwood) As I drove by there sat the old Willys next to the barn, covered in black berrys. You could hardly even see what it was. I knew, it had been there for YEARS!!! I spun around and pulled in his drive. As he walked out his front door and looked up he got this funny little grin and said, "You stll want that damn Jeep don't you?" I just laughed and said, "what makes you say that?" We had a good laugh over it and for $900 it was the first thing to go to our first house.

Funny thing about Willys. It hadn't been registered since '77. I pulled and flushed the tank, sanded the points, put in a new battery and she fired right up. Thats when I found out it needed a new seal for the old glass bowl on the fuel pump. I drove that Jeep for a almost a year before my Uncle MADE me put new ignition parts on it before he would let me take it to Eastern Oregon for a dear hunting trip.

Wow. Thanks for reminding me. :lol::lol:

[Edz280zx]

^^^good story!

[nukeday]

It sounds like you've got spark where it should be now.

 

Assuming that's the case, I think we might have missed a step or two? Have you checked timing or moved the distributor? Have you checked gap and dwell on the points? When you removed the points for cleaning, how were they reinstalled? Just because it sparks across the points doesn't mean it will send that spark to the plugs at the correct time. That's where timing, dwell and gap come in to play.

 

When Mike helped me with the 521, I struggled with this very scenario. A slight timing adjustment, and a readjustment of the points and it started right up. Sort of, to add insult to injury, I had the plug wires running out of the dizzy in the wrong rotation (clockwise vs. counterclockwise). Forest for the trees sort of thing...

Edited November 20, 2009 by nukeday
...it's easy to forget where I screwed up

[denveratsun]

Hey Fisch...I would say that after over half my life spent working on cars...and several years of that spent above 9000 feet in Colorado winters...that starter fluid is not as bad as some make it out to be. The old stuff was so much worse! They have added "upper cylinder lube" to it in the last couple decades and while it is still far less than an ideal way to start a car...it will work when it needs to.

 

It is a very aggressive cleaner on any petroleum based fluid product. It has been devestating on cylinder walls in the past. I remember how much an engine used to rattle after it finaly fired up on starter fluid...as much from the raw metal friction as from the pre-detonation of the rapidly burning fluid...way more effecient burn than gasoline!

 

It sounds like you did spray way too much in the carb, and it's a good thing it didn't actually fire off...it could have been really bad for several reasons!

 

If the timing was too far off you could have seen a backfire through the carb and potentially into your face...been done more than once before I promise! The potential for an already dry engine to suffer significant start up damage is huge when they have been parked for a long period...that is only compounded when starter fluid is applied.

I have personally heard engines started on starter fluid race..or rev very high...right after start-up occurs. This, of course, is a bad idea...not only for all engines that have sat for a long time...but especially for yours...since it's a sweet az Datsun made in 1959:cool:

Finally I am glad that none of that happened because,as you have testified to...you aren't really a wrench and are just learning about mechanics.

 

That would be a bad time to need to tear down the engine right?

 

I think that if it comes down to it...and there seems to be a need for it...starter fluid in small measure is not the end of the world.......:blink:

 

Like I said before...get an I.V. bottle of gas going on that ole car...I really think it will do the trick...after you get spark of course!:D

 

Lookin good Fisch...I really support you man....GO Fisch Go!:lol:

[Jester]

A great way to static time it would be to set the #1 piston coming up top and set the mark on the pulley to your appropriate timing mark. Now loosen the dist. clamp. With the key to the on position turn the dist. in the the opposite direction of rotor turn until you get a spark. At that point, tighten the dist. clamp and it should be ready to fire. From there you can do your usual checks like oil pressure, idle speed and timing.

 

Good luck Fisch. Everytime I see an answer to this thread lately, I keep expecting to hear of a successfull star up. Keep it up. Your getting close.

 

BTW: You may want to hook up a temp. mechanical oil pressure guage to make sure you have addiquate pressure at start up.

[fisch]

You guys are awesome! I just printed the ignition part of the manual SciFi guy posted and hope to get out there and measure the gap, etc.

 

Hey, is it ok for my coil to get warm? I was out there earlier and had the ignition key on for a few minutes, and felt the coil and it was warm. Not hot. Just warm.

 

I googled it and a few folks mention their coils getting warm in other cars. So is that ok?

 

I should add that a few minutes prior I have checked for spark from the coil lead to ground numerous times. Getting spark. Then about 5 min after with the key still on, it was still warm.

Edited November 20, 2009 by fisch

[Jester]

I know they are filled with oil to keep them cool. But, I don't know if they get warm by leaving the key on. I guess I could go turn my key on see what mine does. :lol::lol:

[Cuts metal like mad]

With the key on, and the engine not running, the coil will charge, but not discharge. SO, it WILL get warm. Leaving the key on too long can cause it to get hot and even leak, or POP!

[Jester]

I guess when you think about how they work, that makes perfect sense.

[fisch]

Awesome Zuum that is just what happened!

[fisch]

Ok, are you ready for it? I adjusted the points gap. First time I've ever done that and indeed it was off.

 

Then I tried to start it with a line to the fuelpump. Well I swiftly discovered the pump doesn't work. I couldn't get it to suck any gas, tried the priming ring, the starter, and even the handcrank.

 

So I poured gas in the carb. A teaspoon at most. Tried to start it, IT FROZE! Starter would only click. HAnd crank wouldn't move it either. I thought it was a gonner, THEN realized the bendix was stuck. Must have gotten on that bad spot on teh flywheel.

 

Loosened the starter bolts and got released.

 

Went back and tried to fire it again. Check out the video!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doin a dance doin a dance!

 

So how do I sophon feed this bad boy?

[izzo]

is it a mechanical pump like the L series? Just run the gas line to a gas can :D the pump will suck i outta the can...

 

 

Good job :D Cant wait to see a video of it revvin and running for a bit

[fisch]

is it a mechanical pump like the L series? Just run the gas line to a gas can :D the pump will suck i outta the can...

 

Alas, that is what I tried Izzo.:( I couldn't get it to suck up anything. I better start looking for a British one!

[Edz280zx]

Why not electric?? They aren't that expensive.

[Charlie69]

"THAT WAS RUNNIN" That is great Fisch. Throw a Weber on it and a EI distributor and race it!

 

Wow after 41 years of sitting in the New Mexico Desert IT RUNS!:cool::D

[67411sss]

I couldn't get fuel to the glass fuel bulb in my roadster after cleaning the tank and putting it back in, so i got my air compressor and gently pumped air into the tank (careful not to add to much air at a time more of a pulse) forcing fuel up the line into the fuel bowl and on to the fuel pump, it worked for me and has been great ever since. I also thought the fuel pump was shot but turns out it wasn't .

[fisch]

I couldn't get fuel to the glass fuel bulb in my roadster after cleaning the tank and putting it back in, so i got my air compressor and gently pumped air into the tank (careful not to add to much air at a time more of a pulse) forcing fuel up the line into the fuel bowl and on to the fuel pump, it worked for me and has been great ever since. I also thought the fuel pump was shot but turns out it wasn't .

 

Nice idea! I am running gas from a little plastic water bottle for the moment. Since I can't make the pump any worse if it is broken, I will try to presuade a little gas to it tomorrow and see if we can get it to run for more than 2 seconds! Heck, I know air blows through the pump with my mouth. So maybe I will try to syphon some down to the pump with gravity!

 

And electric is certainly an option Ed! I've never installed one so I would have to figure out how. But first I will try to get another mechanical one to keep is all old.:)

[mklotz70]

photobucket seems to be on vacation at the moment.

 

To gravity feed as mentioned...I would have the IV bottle(fuel source) several feet above the carb..not directly over....just higher. The line will hook up to the inlet on the carb. When the float fills up, the float valve should shut it off. If the carb is working, it should work quite nicely. I don't think it would be safe to just let it drip into the barrel of the carb.....couldn't tell if that's what was meant or not.

 

So....did I not put the fuel pump in the box I sent you????? I guess I'll have to check.

[mklotz70]

just got to watch the vid.....that was awesome!!! Congrats!!! Sounded pretty good too!!

 

Do you have the coolant system working? Water in the radiator? That's probably your next step so you can run it for more than 30 sec. Actually....getting constant fuel is probably the next step :)