Crazy idea...but is it possible?

[Andres131313]

I still say you change your signature .... And buy a Honda

I'll say screw you.

[Andres131313]

1) who knows for a fact it would fail that easly?

2) I want to drive the damn thing not die

3) if I'm spending money on a sc I'm not tuning it down

4) nearest place with a dyno is 30 miles away

5) it's an expirement

6) if you have never experimented or tried something that's way out there then why are you still living?

 

Lastly it was/is a question. Fuck you all jump to criticize when all I asked was it possible just even a little. The question is valid. The pump supplies air, driven of of the crank, and can be connected to the intake. Sounds like the basic description of a sc. Boost pressure wouldn't be high if any. But it can work with better bearings different blades and some hose. All of which I can do. So thanks for the feed back

 

Oh and as for buying a Honda, I've raised a 50' chevy styleline from the dead and made it one of the fastest and most reliable cars around. You really think I wont to work on a peice of shit Honda? Ha I scrap them out of my grill.

[bonvo]

it will fail because it was never designed to generate actual boost even if you had it spinning at 50000rpm the volume of air its moving isnt enough to overcome engine vacuum you have a shit load of people telling you it wont work most who have been working on cars in the driveway for a while a few like myself who went to school and actually have certifications in automotive technology why are you getting so defensive? yes it moves air but my lungs move more air then the smog pump does there is a HUGE difference between moving air and boost if your going to go threw all that work to basicly build a super charger out of a smog pump which even if you did it wouldnt make any boost why not just buy a super charger i thought about this when i was young and stupid till i took a closer look and realized that there is no way it would work 

 

you wonder why we are all "getting on your case" this is ratsun you ask a stupid question be prepared to be brought down a few pegs you need to have tough skin to survive around here 

[datsunaholic]

There's a difference between trying something out of the box as an experiment when the variables aren't known, and experimenting with things that physically won't do what you want them to do.  When I was a little kid, I thought you could make gasoline last forever by piping the exhaust into a big tank, letting the particles settle out, add water, and it'd be gasoline again.  Because, my little kid mind thought liquid=had water in it, ergo tailpipe soot + water = gasoline would be like tang power + water = orange drink.  Of course I learned things don't work that way. 

 

The smog pump simply is not large enough to make a useful supercharger.  You can't turn it fast enough, and its inlets/outlets aren't big enough to handle the airflow generated if you could.

 

In order for forced induction to be effective, the amount of boost produced by forced induction (either a mechanical supercharger or a turbo-supercharger, aka a turbocharger) needs to be fairly significant- it needs to exceed the amount of air moved by displacement alone.  Even then, it then needs to exceed it by enough to provide enough boost to make it worth it, because too low of boost won't provide enough gain to even overcome the power needed to drive the supercharger..  A smog pump simply cannot provide enough volume at a high enough pressure to power itself.  You'd make more power by simply removing the belt off the smog pump.  It probably uses close to 2% of the engine's given HP to drive it anyway.

 

I could make an analogy of piping a smog pump into the intake as being like pissing in the Mississippi river, except even then you're adding volume.  A smog pump plumbed into the air cleaner won't add volume- it's not big enough to provide more air than the engine pulls from natural aspiration, so all that happens is it equalizes.  Whatever air comes in through the smog pump will be subtracted from what came through the main snorkel.  Unless you actually pressurize the intake, the engine will only draw its natural amount.

[Z-train]

Lastly it was/is a question. Fuck you all jump to criticize when all I asked was it possible just even a little. The question is valid. The pump supplies air, driven of of the crank, and can be connected to the intake. Sounds like the basic description of a sc. Boost pressure wouldn't be high if any. But it can work with better bearings different blades and some hose.

I suggest you change your attitude.

[smoke]

I'll weigh in on this as someone who actually boosts just about everything he owns. Your idea is not crazy or even dumb. The issue lies in that your particular engine pumps more air (draws more air) than the little compressor can put out. I could see it working on a very small engine for a slight gain. If you speed it up to try and match your engine size (amount of air) the problem will be in its design, forget about the bearings and all that jazz, the blades themselves, you will get to a point in rpm where they will not put out anymore air, cavitation, where it's not grabbing air and pushing it any longer, but rather just spinning fast in a bubble. Theoretically, if you hooked enough smog pumps to your engine, you might see a very slight gain.

 

keep in mind though, when you are looking for extra power from something of this nature, you are not after flow so much, well, you are, but that is a long topic, what your after is pressure. If you're at sea level, the pressure on the outside of your engine and around you is 14.7 pounds, when you start your engine, the pressure around your intake in lower than the 14.7 because the engine is creating a low pressure area. Think of it this way, the 14.7 pound around you is a pressure force, so your engine (all engines) are having 14.7 pounds pushed into them at this atmosphere. What your after is to make your own little atmosphere inside a charger than is higher than 14.7. If you make it 2 pounds higher, your engine is at 16.7 pounds of pressure and so on.

 

Now, if you cap off the smog pump while turning it at speed, it would probably make some pressure, I don't know, never tried it, but I assume it would. Lets call it 5 psi of pressure. Now drill a hole in that cap so you have an air leak (your engine will act as an air leak) it will drop a pound or two of pressure, then drill another hole and another, will it still make pressure with all the air leaks? soon you will hit a spot of having too much of an air leak for it to make any pressure and this is the case with your particular engine, too much of an air leak for it to make pressure.

 

You could modify the hell out of it and a smart guy could probably even make it work, but at what point of that amount of work could you have just went tothe wrecking yard, grabbed a turbo off an old saab and had itactually boosting and building some real power. I see it as an amount of effort put in to to what you get out of it and the ratio is too high on the effort side.

[Mattndew76]

This question has hit the screen in every car forum I have been to.

 

You are having the same reaction that each one of those guys who asked the same question did.

 

1) Quetion is asked

 

2) friendly and unfriendly answers flood in.

 

3) Good advice is given.

 

4) OP gets offended. Says he has experience with making rockets fly faster and better. (Rockets being a synonym for car)

 

5) OP won't listen to reason or concede to good advice making the basis of his question moot.

 

 

 

Smoke said, I said it, Ratsun said it. Use the right equipment for your desired outcome. An SC or a Turbo can be picked for less than a 100$.

 

If you just want to add a few PSI we know enough to tell you to get an adequate compressing tool and build a system that will compress your intake system.

 

This is not an attack on your question or idea.

[Jesse C.]

Just go read a book or two. Knowledge, unlike smog pumps, is power! 

 

[Dolomite]

1) who knows for a fact it would fail that easly?

2) I want to drive the damn thing not die

3) if I'm spending money on a sc I'm not tuning it down

4) nearest place with a dyno is 30 miles away

5) it's an expirement

6) if you have never experimented or tried something that's way out there then why are you still living?

Lastly it was/is a question. Fuck you all jump to criticize when all I asked was it possible just even a little. The question is valid. The pump supplies air, driven of of the crank, and can be connected to the intake. Sounds like the basic description of a sc. Boost pressure wouldn't be high if any. But it can work with better bearings different blades and some hose. All of which I can do. So thanks for the feed back

Oh and as for buying a Honda, I've raised a 50' chevy styleline from the dead and made it one of the fastest and most reliable cars around. You really think I wont to work on a peice of shit Honda? Ha I scrap them out of my grill.

Someone needs their title changed to butthurt

[john510]

1) who knows for a fact it would fail that easly?

2) I want to drive the damn thing not die

3) if I'm spending money on a sc I'm not tuning it down

4) nearest place with a dyno is 30 miles away

5) it's an expirement

6) if you have never experimented or tried something that's way out there then why are you still living?

 

Lastly it was/is a question. Fuck you all jump to criticize when all I asked was it possible just even a little. The question is valid. The pump supplies air, driven of of the crank, and can be connected to the intake. Sounds like the basic description of a sc. Boost pressure wouldn't be high if any. But it can work with better bearings different blades and some hose. All of which I can do. So thanks for the feed back

 

Oh and as for buying a Honda, I've raised a 50' chevy styleline from the dead and made it one of the fastest and most reliable cars around. You really think I wont to work on a peice of shit Honda? Ha I scrap them out of my grill.

Question #1,watch the two videos that were posted.

[datzenmike]

Someone needs their title changed to butthurt

 

That'll help the hurt...

 

 

 

But I agree research IS knowledge. There's lots of good reference books and sites out there. and free.

 

 

 

5/ & 6/ A little research/knowledge would tell you that this is better addressed as a thought experiment, like on a forum, and not jumped into as mechanical one. At least not until the thought experiment has addressed a few problems first. Criticism is a good thing. It prevents us trying to visit the moon by walking there. Excellent ideas come from criticism so don't get hurt.... they are trying to help, in a round about way.

[mrbigtanker]

I'll weigh in on this as someone who actually boosts just about everything he owns. Your idea is not crazy or even dumb. The issue lies in that your particular engine pumps more air (draws more air) than the little compressor can put out. I could see it working on a very small engine for a slight gain. If you speed it up to try and match your engine size (amount of air) the problem will be in its design, forget about the bearings and all that jazz, the blades themselves, you will get to a point in rpm where they will not put out anymore air, cavitation, where it's not grabbing air and pushing it any longer, but rather just spinning fast in a bubble. Theoretically, if you hooked enough smog pumps to your engine, you might see a very slight gain.

 

keep in mind though, when you are looking for extra power from something of this nature, you are not after flow so much, well, you are, but that is a long topic, what your after is pressure. If you're at sea level, the pressure on the outside of your engine and around you is 14.7 pounds, when you start your engine, the pressure around your intake in lower than the 14.7 because the engine is creating a low pressure area. Think of it this way, the 14.7 pound around you is a pressure force, so your engine (all engines) are having 14.7 pounds pushed into them at this atmosphere. What your after is to make your own little atmosphere inside a charger than is higher than 14.7. If you make it 2 pounds higher, your engine is at 16.7 pounds of pressure and so on.

 

Now, if you cap off the smog pump while turning it at speed, it would probably make some pressure, I don't know, never tried it, but I assume it would. Lets call it 5 psi of pressure. Now drill a hole in that cap so you have an air leak (your engine will act as an air leak) it will drop a pound or two of pressure, then drill another hole and another, will it still make pressure with all the air leaks? soon you will hit a spot of having too much of an air leak for it to make any pressure and this is the case with your particular engine, too much of an air leak for it to make pressure.

 

You could modify the hell out of it and a smart guy could probably even make it work, but at what point of that amount of work could you have just went tothe wrecking yard, grabbed a turbo off an old saab and had itactually boosting and building some real power. I see it as an amount of effort put in to to what you get out of it and the ratio is too high on the effort side.

Look at Smoke getting all in to the 14.7 pounds of pressure and stuff. I felt smart just reading that.

[smoke]

I know it's a shock when I break from being a smartass.

[smoke]

Oh, and.....shark pump.

[datzenmike]

Look at Smoke getting all in to the 14.7 pounds of pressure and stuff. I felt smart just reading that.

 

I feel all our I Qs went up a little....

 

Oh, and.....shark pump.

 

Ooooooooh noooooooooos

[RatVonDude]

 

 

Not to get off subject,..........presently trying to convert my air conditioning unit into a paint ball riffle

 

anyway...............what crazy European thought of this ^^^

 

pink slime air vent cleaner, specifically for a Piaggio Porter

[wayno]

I kinda look at it like this, if it were possible, some crazy Datsun guy would have done it within a year of the smog pump coming out, and it would be a common thing to do, everyone would want one of the rare smog pumps to do the same thing, if it could have been done, it would have been done already.

Hey I've been running this idea in my head for a while now. Smog pumps pump are into the intake and exhaust manifolds. I know on my smog pump pulley is about the same size as the crank pulley. If I were to make a pulley 1/8th the size of the stock smog pulley it would act as a kind of makeshift supercharger right? Not as powerful but still more air into the engine?
I've tried looking it up but I've only seen it done with bikes. Just am idea.

I bet one could get it really spinning fast if they connected to an exhaust pipe, but I don't think it would work much past idle speed though, as you can only force so much air thru a small hole, and one could in theory could blow their muffler up with all the back pressure created.

I would want a concrete wall between me and the unit if I tried it, something to keep me safe when it explodes.

[Mattndew76]

SharkCharger

[Burabuda]

[smoke]

The answer to ALL problems was just posted.

[DanielC]

I have this Nissan manual.

In the manual, it has specifications for the air (smog) pump.  140 CC per revolution.  A l-16 engine wants 800 CC per revolution.   So the air pump would have to run somewhere between 5.5 to 6 times the engine speed just to keep up with the air demands of the engine

[datzenmike]

Good for weed eater, about it.

[ericsb210]

I am glad the question was posted, learned a bit from reading the comments. Hopefully OP has gained some knowledge, too.

[Andres131313]

 Who have been working on cars in the driveway for a while a few like myself who went to school and actually have certifications in automotive technology why are you getting so defensive? 

 

you wonder why we are all "getting on your case" this is ratsun you ask a stupid question be prepared to be brought down a few pegs you need to have tough skin to survive around here 

 

Im going to school for mine. I have a few already. 

 

If the rat in ratsun means what I think it means (rat rod) then Im doing the right thing by using something outside of the box. I grew up in a family of grease monkeys. They all owned rats. A quote from my grandfather

 

"if you buy a kit or some part that bolts straight on or it doesn't take much work to, you're doing it wrong."

 

Thnaks by the way smoke

 

and z-train… not a snowballs chance in hell

[nismo dr]

where is your build thread so i can pull up a seat.....