GM to shut down Hummer and Saturn

[Str8_69]

I see a government trying to divert attention away from it's own follies, a government invested in two automobile manufacturers that would love nothing more than to divert attention towards it's own vested interests and make itself look good in the wake of it's own previous failures. I remember Pintos exploding from rear end collisions, Chevy pickups exploding from side collisions, and Lee Iacocca resurrecting Mopar with shitbox cars. Meanwhile, the Japanese had superior technology and product, built alliances with american companies, and started building here and putting americans to work. Seems the second this administration has the chance to point a finger away from itself, it takes full advantage in the media.

 

I think it sucks that GM has to close divisions to survive, and jobs will be lost. I could give a shit about Hummer and Saturn vehicles, but they were enterprise that represented US business and jobs. Hopefully GM and Chrysler will be able to one day thrive and be great companies again, repay US taxpayers and get out from under government control, but I'm not holding my breath. Apparently our government just took in a deep breath, I hope it can hold it for a long time.

 

Oh, and drive by wire sucks. Why would sheeple drive an automobile that could not be shut down with the flick of the wrist? Too much faith in technology me thinks....

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Good riddance. Hummers suck, and so do alot of the douchey folks who drive them. Now if only we could get rid of all of THEM

[datsunaholic]

I guess I was a day late in hearing that the Chinese purchase of the Hummer brand fell through. It was time anyway. The luxury SUV fad has run its course.

[paradoxx]

I totally agree with mike's and datsunaholic's comment.....

 

I had an experience like the toyota's Magic Accelerator once in the Datsun, I had a broken pin for the gas pedal linkage and stuck down to the bottom, I hit the gas pedal to see if it came back but it didn't, so I simply turned the car off, drove it in neutral until I had a space to pull over. No big science, but you have to know how a car works not only sit and drive!

 

About Hummers, they just lost all the escence when afroamerican guys started to pimp them...... for me a hummer is a car that is indestructible, Milspec designed car. All of the commercial hummers are meant to disappear right away. The hummer is a tough car, not a toy car!

[alleycat]

i say, wanna drive a hummer? enlist.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I like the H3s manual trans

Good hunting rig comes with a rear locker!!! wished it had a 6cly and a straight front axle

[zerow]

i say, wanna drive a hummer? enlist.

Agreed alleycat. They really suck in the military as well. Big elephant ear mirrors and you can see from them anyway; Monocaliper brakes that fail MISERABLY when wet (it actually does rain in Iraq, BTW); Diesel (enough to pull, but not enough to get the f out of harm's way) Top Speed 40MPH (on a good day); and weight characteristics shot to hell when uparmored (I guess canvas doors can't deflect bullets...) And the American public ate them up as a way to "show support for their family members in the Armed Forces". Wanna show me support? Don't bring one of those to an event and ask me how I liked driving one. The are NOT the same vehicle.

 

As for the Crucifixion of Toyota...I own two Corollas, both outside of this recall. I have owned 3 other Corollas before these two (see a pattern...??) and have generously given the Earth 1 million miles (combined) from all 5 of them. Great gas mileage, holds the kid well, damn near indestructable, and when all was said and done, I would still go and buy another. The ONLY downfall to this latest blemish on Toyota is the fact they tried a new technology: Drive by Wire. The moment you take the physical connection from the accelerator pedal (your foot) and the intake manifold (where air goes in), you have a recipe for disaster. This computer technology relies upon the response of your foot and translates it into an electronic signal to make the car go. And Susie Soccer Mom with her jerky accelerating is compunding the problem by not GRADUALLY pressing the pedal every time. so it gets a worn spot in the sensor. Now what? The time she presses the pedal correctly, the car goes and keeps going? (BTW: Drive by Wire on some of these models is in the steering "gear" as well, wait for Round 2 of recalls for that nonsense) I'm going to 32 in a few days - I remember a driver's education course that said if you are accelerating out of control (apparently this *might* have happened to someone before...) to shift to neutral and pull over. What happened to common sense...??

 

 

Oh yeah, thats right, common sense must come in another Cracker Jack box, not the one these idiots keep getting their driver's licenses out of...

[JoeinCa]

Fly by wire throttle systems have been on Mercedes vehicles for a long time. I personally don't like the idea. Mercedes uses it mainly for traction control purposes. Even though I never liked the system, I don't recall seeing it fail resulting in acceleration...

Go test drive a new challenger with a manual transmission. Horrific. The fly by wire system doesn't allow for rpm drop between gear shifts. If the clutch is in, the rpms do not drop... how dumb is that if the clutch pedal switch fails?

It MAY not be dangerous, but the whole system makes the car very unpleasant to drive.

 

Joe

[Pumpkn210]

Shouldnt be too long b-fore you can get a H2 at a tow auction for a couple hundred bucks. Talk about the Ultimate Rat Rod!

Saturn is a shame to go! It was a well run/made auto company! Now where are all the high school girls gonna get new cars from?

 

And as far as the recall goes, I didnt hear anyone screaming Bloddy Murder when Every ford with cruse was Lighting on FIRE! They replaced a couple in the work trucks 3 times!

[DanielC]

One of the engineers at GM years ago had a saying, "Parts left off a car cost nothing and create no service problems."

We are now so far from that philosophy. I can remember driving 3/4 ton Ford pickups that had manual steering, manual brakes, and a manual transmission. The windows were on a crank. You had to be smart enough driving it to know that to turn the steering wheel you had to be rolling forward or back, to make it easy to turn.

 

Is throttle by wire the problem? I do not know. It could be. Does the brake system override the throttle on the Toyotas? I am assuming it does, provided everything is working correctly.

 

I have a 1996 Ford Aerostar that is my daily driver. It is still a mechanical throttle, but has cruise control. The cruise control is disengaged when the brake is applied, and this is controlled by the brake light circuit. Twice, the plastic clip that holds wires on the brake light switch broke, leaving me with no brake lights, and the loss of the system of automatically disengaging the cruise control. However, when the brakes were applied, the engine still throttled down to idle, as long as the brake was applied. As soon as I released the brakes, the van would start to resume the set speed. Some engineer decided to put a redundant system that would throttle the engine back with the brakes applied, with the cruise control on, and engaged, even in the absence of a electrical signal from the brake light switch.

 

There have been a fair amount of accidents caused by "uncontrolled acceleration" on all makes of cars, for many years, way before throttle by wire. Most can to be traced to the foot on the wrong pedal.

[hughdogz]

...It is still a bit sick to CELEBRATE their failings, whether it costs jobs OR lives. (Saying thank Gawd, or Wow, I'm glad people cannot buy their penis extensions anymore)...

 

The reason that the plant shut down is that people didn't want to buy the 6,400 pound, $50k+ SUV that gets 8 MPG anymore!

 

GM was trying to sell Hummer to a Chinese company, so the jobs would have been lost in Louisiana plant anyway.

 

GM failed because they refused to see the writing on the wall and didn't react to the situation in time. Then, they asked for bailout money so I'm paying for their stupid, ignorant mistakes.

 

I agree, it's too bad that American workers will lose their jobs, but I was saying thank Gawd that no more of those crap-ass Hummers will be produced and sold in the U.S. I wasn't celebrating the failure. It's too bad GM had to learn the hard way.

 

Good riddence Hummer! ;)

[HRH]

I detest drive by wire, but just to throw this out there: Nissan Titans are drive by wire. I suspect many of the swanky Infiniti versions are now too. I wonder if the new Z car is?

[bonvo]

 

It's been suggested to slip it into neutral, right.... a high revving engine belching oil and rods as you try to steer off the highway.

 

new cars have a rev limiter it would just "bounce off of that not causing any real harm

[thisismatt]

I detest drive by wire, but just to throw this out there: Nissan Titans are drive by wire. I suspect many of the swanky Infiniti versions are now too. I wonder if the new Z car is?

New Z car? Errr, 350z/G35 have been electronic throttle since inception.

[bonvo]

Anyone here ever had uncontrolled acceleration? I had the throttle on one of my Datsuns jam open when merging onto the freeway. You don't notice until you take your foot off the pedal and it keeps speeding up...

 

Of course, I just left it in gear, aimed for the shoulder and shut it off. No harm, no foul, no damage done.

 

But it seems like today no one thinks of what to do in emergency situations. Maybe it's my training as a boat engineer in the Navy- you had to learn what the reflexes were supposed to be, train to do those thinks automatically, so that you neither panicked nor had to think what to do. When the emergency happens it's too late to think about what needs to happen.

 

 

when i took my drivers test 5 years ago i passed it without any issues i could have done it with my eyes closed i think the drivers tests are to easy but then again i was taught to drive by my grandmother a towtruck driver from the 70s who insisted that the first vehiclei learned to drive was a 65 chevy 1/2 ton with a three on the tree

 

my point is there is no training anymore people who drive nowadays just puch the gas and brake pedals and when somthing goes wrong they have no clue what to do because no one taught them i was taught and i have surprized even my chp uncle in my responces to emergencys

[bonvo]

New Z car? Errr, 350z/G35 have been electronic throttle since inception.

 

any my first order of busness if i ever bought one would be to remove that bullshit and replace it with a cable

[hang_510]

i love my 02 4runner.

 

Surely they could have foreseen the economic down turn about two years ago would lead to this and cut it then.

mike this is the first time you let me down... :(

they have NEVER seen it! ever!

they have been bailed out so many times the G should be for Government. :rolleyes:

[hang_510]

any my first order of busness if i ever bought one would be to remove that bullshit and replace it with a cable

dunno if thats possible.

 

this is a concern when i get to a VQ swap.

[thisismatt]

any my first order of busness if i ever bought one would be to remove that bullshit and replace it with a cable

Not with the nissan ECU you won't. Pony up the $1500 give or take for a standalone and then perhaps...and then perhaps you'll also lose the variable valve timing as well :P

[ppeters914]

was taught to drive by my grandmother a tow truck driver from the 70s who insisted that the first vehicle i learned to drive was a 65 chevy 1/2 ton with a three on the tree.

Ha! Bet most folks under 30 (not real car folks) wouldn't have a clue what that phrase means.

 

Floor shift was a 'thee by the knee'.

[paradoxx]

Shouldnt be too long b-fore you can get a H2 at a tow auction for a couple hundred bucks. Talk about the Ultimate Rat Rod!

Saturn is a shame to go! It was a well run/made auto company! Now where are all the high school girls gonna get new cars from?

 

And as far as the recall goes, I didnt hear anyone screaming Bloddy Murder when Every ford with cruse was Lighting on FIRE! They replaced a couple in the work trucks 3 times!

 

thats true......maybe this is a dirty trick to save GM??

[HRH]

Ha! Bet most folks under 30 (not real car folks) wouldn't have a clue what that phrase means.

 

Ha, yeah. I'm 30 and I know what it is, but then I'm a car guy. I had the good sense to get rid of any of those I ever had. Only one in the 63 F100. It was converted to floor shift. Although I'm not sure the linkage was really much better, just less easy to jam.

[motavated]

The reason ford didnt have so much media problems is because most of the cars were JUNKED by then. My 98 windstar only lasted... Hmmm... 3-4 years? Peice of shit! Junked that shit... I BET THAT IS WAY!!!

[FoxyRoadster]

if I remember penksy's tire bought Saturn, so we might see a rebadged brand in their place

[Skib]

 

I'm tired of fucking couches with wheels! No, you DON'T NEED power windows, power seats, heated seats, dual cupholders, in-dash navigation, 10" LCD screens, drive-by-wire throttles, adjustable pedals, automatic/CVT transmissions, parallel parking assist, quick lane change avoidance, etc. To hell with all of it! Make a car, a car! A simple, visceral, driving experience that actually takes more than 1/1000 effort to operate!

 

Fie on the automotive crapfest that is this nation now! I will continue to rebuild old Datsuns/Nissans as long as I can. If that is ever legislated out, I'm going Mad Max on the conspirators making it happen. (Probably California)

 

 

hear hear