GM to shut down Hummer and Saturn

[hughdogz]

Hummer Shutdown

 

Saturn Shutdown

 

I've always disliked those "Yukons in a box". The only Saturn I'd drive is the turbo Sky.

[ppeters914]

Driving a Hummer = small penis. Good riddance.

[sick620]

kinda sad all these car companies are down sizing :( I sure hope nissan and infiniti dont go :(

[MicroMachinery]

It sounds like Toyota may slide into the history books before Nissan will.. which is surprising.

[datzenmike]

I realize that Toyota is having a problem. I get that. Lots of car companies have had recalls, but never have I seen such a one sided attack on a Japanese auto maker, ever. News stories of pregnant women crying and sobbing " I don't even know if it's safe to drive my car!!!" Sound tracks of a cell phone call about their car speeding up and can't stop it. Nothing but negative comments about Toyota. I'll bet the 'Big Three' lobbyists are behind all this. Trying to rip Toyota a new one and ruin it's stellar rep to bolster their own auto sales. GM only made the Hummer because there were people who would buy them. Surely they could have foreseen the economic down turn about two years ago would lead to this and cut it then. They would have looked good doing so as well. I respect Toyota (but am a Nissan guy) and if they offered me a new car to drive I'd have no problem doing so. GM, for years you have been out of touch with what people want. I remember the oil crunch of '72. What we wanted was an economical car. What did we get?? The Chevy Vega and the Pontiac Astre. Ford? The Pinto. Three of the biggest pieces of shit ever made. Is it any wonder I bought a B-210???

 

BTW how bloody hard is it to turn the ignition off if there's a problem? No the steering doesn't lock. Power steering would likely go out but how heavy is a toy anyway? Brakes would loose power assist, but only if repeatedly pumped. It's been suggested to slip it into neutral, right.... a high revving engine belching oil and rods as you try to steer off the highway.

[elmerfudpucker]

HEHEHE good ridance. And Mike, I totaly agree with you about the Big Three. But I look at it this way, Toyota stands behind their product alot better than the Big Three ever did. Not to mention hell yea it is a huge recall, what do you think everyone was buying!! :D

[72240z]

I have been saying that since the get go Mike. It's a blatant tactic but us auto manufacturer lobbyists. Yoda stocks and sales fall and domestics shit boxes skyrocket. If the Japanese were throwing cash at our politicians like ford/GM you can bet coverage would be much more even.

 

There was even a release by ford saying some of their hybrids have the exact same stopping issue as the prius. How many times have you heard about that? I saw it mentioned ONCE in all these weeks. Meanwhile yoda is crucified daily.

 

All that and STILL GM/FORD is running commercials bashing yodas fuel economy. Talk about hitting a man while down.

 

Mr Yoda hasn't helped the issue either, initially refusing to appear to explain the problem. He should have been on his knees like the Nihonjin of old apologizing and asking people to forgive and take note of their near flawless record up to now.... and if he wanted to throw some American auto style in he could have mentioned how ford/GM have been fucking shit up constantly for the same period of time if not longer.

 

 

P.S. Edit - I agree hummer = total small penis ride. Laugh at the male drivers and fear the women ones.

 

Always thought though with real leadership Saturn could have done well.

[fisch]

I have been saying that since the get go Mike. It's a blatant tactic but us auto manufacturer lobbyists. Yoda stocks and sales fall and domestics shit boxes skyrocket. If the Japanese were throwing cash at our politicians like ford/GM you can bet coverage would be much more even.

 

 

Oh man you two are preaching to the choir here. I was talking about this very thing for the last two days. They are totally doing this for the US auto makers in my book. Every time a congressman opens his mouth about it I wonder if he is from Detroit!

[datsunaholic]

The Hummer brand was sold to a Chinese company. Saturn is killed off. Both brands had strayed too far from their original plan, so that they were useless as separate brands.

 

 

Hummer: It was originally conceived by AM General corporation because folks saw the HMMWV during the Gulf War and wanted one. But when GM got ahold of the brand, the H2 and H3 were just standard GM SUVs (Tahoe platform for the H2, Colorado platform for the H3) with different sheet metal. Not the "Extreme Machine" limited production vehicles the H1 was. The H1 was a niche market vehicle and priced as such, just like the gray-market Jeep J8 is now. The H2 and H3 were just soccer-mom vehicles with a premium price, and not worth it.

 

Saturn: Was conceived as an "Import Buster", with completely different parts, assembly, and retail networks from the rest of GM. Not really the best idea to begin with, but what brand loyalty they did gather was torpedoed when they started making cars based off current production GM platforms.

 

GM tried to sell Saturn, and actually had Penske interested but Penske couldn't find anyone willing to supply cars (GM had "reabsorbed" the Spring Hill plant into a normal GM plant) and never intended to produce cars independently. So GM shut it down.

[yellowdatsun]

Did any of you listed to the congressional hearings today about Toyota? Man congress is a bunch of complete idiots. They kept asking the SAME gawdam questions, and the toyota guys were replying "Like I mentioned before.....". Then you have the frickin chairwoman who is the biggest idiot on the planet, no idea how she got that position by being so stupid...........The north American COO tried to inform her that her Camry hybrid was an American made car, and she wouldn't even let him finish what he was saying. She blabbed on about how it has the Toyota name and how that's not American, then insinuates that the Toyota COO was accusing the Americans of the shoddy work and get's all defensive. She had this one-sided-bitchy attitude that was just pissing me off. They were all trying to turn it into a "Japanese" problem. "How come your Japanese cars are hurting our Americans". The Toyota COO later finally got his reply in, stating that her Camry was made here, by Americans, using American parts, and that shut her the hell up.

[72240z]

Ya I saw that and it's a good point. Idk how they can be so stern at this time. I would have been WAY more hard line with congress if I were in Mr yodas shoes. Okay well how about to solve the problem we close all our USA plants and move them back to japan were output was high and costs were lower? (Because Niponjin actually give a shit about their job and company) How would that be for you? Yoda was nice enough to give US plant workers pay while on leaves because production was shut down and then OT when it came to fixing the problem. A USA big 3 would have laid off half them, put the other half on unpaid leave then scabbed in people they could pay less.

[racerx]

This is my 2 cents regarding Toyota. And I think even My Toyoda said this. They got too comfortable. You see this all the time with companies/organizations. They are up and coming then suddenly they take a dump. Toyota, I believed, reached their zenith and they got too comfortable for their own good. Plus, parts are coming from everywhere, GLOBAL MARKET, and how can an organization ensure a 100% accuracy, QA, QC or better yet safety. Combined with sitting in their laurels, they tought they were invincible and could not do anything wrong. Why do you think I've never bought a new car since 1989- I bought a Toyota truck. They are too pricey and once you leave the dealership you already lost money. There are times I think twice because I can't get my car to run right or something else comes up (1975 Celica, 510 Datsun and 65 Shelby Fastback Replica) but these are the times the I am grinning that I can tune my own car and not worry about the sensors and all of these bells and whistles that come with cars today, inc. a seat warmer. Get me a decent 510 that gets me to point A and B and fudge all these new cars.

[JoeinCa]

Thank god so many more people are going to be out of jobs. neato. awesome.

I'm not a fan of the hummer, saturns, or toyotas. but come on... It's a little sick to celebrate the failings of others.

 

Like people complaining about the resale value loss on their toyotas. Talking to hear themselves.

 

Anyhow. As ridiculous as Hummers are, and as crappy as the saturns are to drive... To actually say that you are glad they are gone... That is a little sick.

 

Now if for instance... AIG and co-conspirators were to fail (again) and all of those "creative" people were without jobs...

 

 

Joe

[datzenmike]

but come on... It's a little sick to celebrate the failings of others.

Joe

 

It's not a person, it's a huge non human, profit making machine that's poorly run and needs criticism. No car company (or damn few) has ever made a change for the better including safety devices voluntarily. They were always dragged there by the public outrage. Only when it was cheaper to add a safety device than loose profits from lost sales do they change.

[72240z]

I'm not happy about people loosing their jobs nor calibrating it, don't think anyone here was either. The whole you cant criticize or they cant fail etc because of all the jobs at stake is exactly the same bs going on with banks. Company's go out of business and companies are created, people loose jobs and people get jobs, it's a healthy cycle. It's when they become so big they have to be forgiven and can't be criticized, when the gov or people intervene that the real problems come.

 

Stating the 2 companies were failures and deserved to go under is just stating facts. Let new ones grow in their place, hopefully better ones.

[HRH]

BTW how bloody hard is it to turn the ignition off if there's a problem? No the steering doesn't lock. Power steering would likely go out but how heavy is a toy anyway? Brakes would loose power assist, but only if repeatedly pumped. It's been suggested to slip it into neutral, right.... a high revving engine belching oil and rods as you try to steer off the highway.

 

I thought the same thing Mike, but the model that crashed and burned had a push button ignition switch with a safety feature of not turning off or trying to restart the car when it's running. So pushing it once doesn't turn the car off. Pushing and holding for 3 seconds would have worked, but I doubt many owners knew or know that, and the guy who killed his family after it careened off a cliff or whatever certainly didn't know it.

 

On the same note, how many "average drivers" aren't complete fucking morons these days? Can you drive any new car with one foot and one hand, and easily at that. How many of those "average drivers" could even successfully start my 510, let alone figure out 1st gear is in 2nd gear position?

 

As for Toyota, I hate Toyota. I wouldn't drive a new Toyota if it was given to me. Most of them have horrible blind spots, they look ugly, and they're expensive to repair because apparently Toyota parts are like parts made from God's ribs. I have heard the same bullshit arguments for that stupid 22R that makes next to nothing for horsepower because it "runs forever!" Any piece of shit 4 cylinder with a .5:1 compression ratio will run forever. It's not that great. And their V6 parts cost more than God's Armani boxer shorts!

 

On the same token, there's not much I would drive from Nissan either at this moment. Godzilla? Neat, but way too complicated. The Sentra? FWD and ugly as shit, along with the cube shitbox and the rogue craptastic failure. The 370Z isn't horrible, but I still don't like the styling.

 

Fuck me, I'm turning 30 and I'm as disgusted with car choices now as those purists who bought Datsuns in the 70s as opposed to the '76 Monte Carlo or Riviera.

 

I'm tired of fucking couches with wheels! No, you DON'T NEED power windows, power seats, heated seats, dual cupholders, in-dash navigation, 10" LCD screens, drive-by-wire throttles, adjustable pedals, automatic/CVT transmissions, parallel parking assist, quick lane change avoidance, etc. To hell with all of it! Make a car, a car! A simple, visceral, driving experience that actually takes more than 1/1000 effort to operate!

 

Fie on the automotive crapfest that is this nation now! I will continue to rebuild old Datsuns/Nissans as long as I can. If that is ever legislated out, I'm going Mad Max on the conspirators making it happen. (Probably California)

[JoeinCa]

It's not a person, it's a huge non human, profit making machine that's poorly run and needs criticism. No car company (or damn few) has ever made a change for the better including safety devices voluntarily. They were always dragged there by the public outrage. Only when it was cheaper to add a safety device than loose profits from lost sales do they change.

That is true. It is true of many industries, not just the automotive industry. Check out the movie Food Inc.

 

It is still a bit sick to CELEBRATE their failings, whether it costs jobs OR lives. (Saying thank Gawd, or Wow, I'm glad people cannot buy their penis extensions anymore)

 

So while I am not a fan of these cars, and a not a fan of and make fun of many, many, many different cars and manufacturers and the people that drive them...

 

Ah screw it, Pontiac should have died the day they produced the AZTEC. Hummer the H2, and Saturn was pretty still born.

 

 

On the subject of the Toyotas recall. The Detroit FBI just raided two Toyota parts suppliers. Puttin g the CEEO in front of congress... This is like a communism tribunal.

 

There should be a toyota commercial that outlines what people should do if they have an unexpected acceleration problem. Darwinism or not, that is the absolute LEAST they could do, atop the recall repairs. Throw it into neutral, let the engine bounce off of the rev limiter until you have safely stopped then shut the engine off.

 

It's common sense for car guys. But a lot of people out there don't even know how to open the hood of their car. Most people do not even touch the gear selector unless they are stopped, and almost nobody ever puts their car in neutral on purpose.

[JoeinCa]

I'm not happy about people loosing their jobs nor calibrating it, don't think anyone here was either. The whole you cant criticize or they cant fail etc because of all the jobs at stake is exactly the same bs going on with banks. Company's go out of business and companies are created, people loose jobs and people get jobs, it's a healthy cycle. It's when they become so big they have to be forgiven and can't be criticized, when the gov or people intervene that the real problems come.

 

Stating the 2 companies were failures and deserved to go under is just stating facts. Let new ones grow in their place, hopefully better ones.

 

I totally agree. I had a moment of weakness. I'm really just a die hard chevy fan. and even then there are only a few chevys that I even like. the 57 bel air, 68 chevelle, 68 camaro and firebird, the 50-60s chevy trucks, 70 chevelle, and the new camaro, and a smattering of corvettes, other than that its pretty ford(shitty) to me...

 

Oh yeah, and fuck the banks and credit card companies, fuck them in their red asses.

 

Joe

[datzenmike]

Are cars that different, am I so out of touch???? I know there were some push button starts, thought it was a fad... are they all doing this now???? Where's the driving experience gone?

 

I meant Toyots don't scare me if there was a problem.... now I find out you're not even in control of the ignition???? W in TF???? I love my Datsun. I can find and fix problems on it . I can describe problems and chat with others about them. I guess the Toyota/Nissan/Honda owners of today will never have forums to chat about their cars because no one can understand them let alone fix. Trannys and motors sealed so you can't even check fluids???? CVT?

[Guest 510kamikazifreak]

New cars are good for one thing,

Renting them and "driving" them :devil:

Just ask me I know :ninja:

Hyundai something or other, a week and a bit ago :w00t:

A buck and a half on the coke :thumbup: :w00t: :hyper:

Only shut the thing off to get fuel!!

Not my car :hyper:

[datsunaholic]

Anyone here ever had uncontrolled acceleration? I had the throttle on one of my Datsuns jam open when merging onto the freeway. You don't notice until you take your foot off the pedal and it keeps speeding up...

 

Of course, I just left it in gear, aimed for the shoulder and shut it off. No harm, no foul, no damage done.

 

But it seems like today no one thinks of what to do in emergency situations. Maybe it's my training as a boat engineer in the Navy- you had to learn what the reflexes were supposed to be, train to do those thinks automatically, so that you neither panicked nor had to think what to do. When the emergency happens it's too late to think about what needs to happen.

[izzo]

I thought the same thing Mike, but the model that crashed and burned had a push button ignition switch with a safety feature of not turning off or trying to restart the car when it's running. So pushing it once doesn't turn the car off. Pushing and holding for 3 seconds would have worked, but I doubt many owners knew or know that, and the guy who killed his family after it careened off a cliff or whatever certainly didn't know it.

 

On the same note, how many "average drivers" aren't complete fucking morons these days? Can you drive any new car with one foot and one hand, and easily at that. How many of those "average drivers" could even successfully start my 510, let alone figure out 1st gear is in 2nd gear position?

 

As for Toyota, I hate Toyota. I wouldn't drive a new Toyota if it was given to me. Most of them have horrible blind spots, they look ugly, and they're expensive to repair because apparently Toyota parts are like parts made from God's ribs. I have heard the same bullshit arguments for that stupid 22R that makes next to nothing for horsepower because it "runs forever!" Any piece of shit 4 cylinder with a .5:1 compression ratio will run forever. It's not that great. And their V6 parts cost more than God's Armani boxer shorts!

 

On the same token, there's not much I would drive from Nissan either at this moment. Godzilla? Neat, but way too complicated. The Sentra? FWD and ugly as shit, along with the cube shitbox and the rogue craptastic failure. The 370Z isn't horrible, but I still don't like the styling.

 

Fuck me, I'm turning 30 and I'm as disgusted with car choices now as those purists who bought Datsuns in the 70s as opposed to the '76 Monte Carlo or Riviera.

 

I'm tired of fucking couches with wheels! No, you DON'T NEED power windows, power seats, heated seats, dual cupholders, in-dash navigation, 10" LCD screens, drive-by-wire throttles, adjustable pedals, automatic/CVT transmissions, parallel parking assist, quick lane change avoidance, etc. To hell with all of it! Make a car, a car! A simple, visceral, driving experience that actually takes more than 1/1000 effort to operate!

 

Fie on the automotive crapfest that is this nation now! I will continue to rebuild old Datsuns/Nissans as long as I can. If that is ever legislated out, I'm going Mad Max on the conspirators making it happen. (Probably California)

 

 

Matt, im down with the mad max. Shit ever ends up like that, track me down! :rofl:

[thisismatt]

Anyone here ever had uncontrolled acceleration? I had the throttle on one of my Datsuns jam open when merging onto the freeway. You don't notice until you take your foot off the pedal and it keeps speeding up...

 

Of course, I just left it in gear, aimed for the shoulder and shut it off. No harm, no foul, no damage done.

 

But it seems like today no one thinks of what to do in emergency situations. Maybe it's my training as a boat engineer in the Navy- you had to learn what the reflexes were supposed to be, train to do those thinks automatically, so that you neither panicked nor had to think what to do. When the emergency happens it's too late to think about what needs to happen.

Sign of the times. Everything is just churned out these days, including people and their educations. Churn churn churn, whether they're competent or not. Just move it along, allow them their god-given drivers licenses!

[izzo]

Anyone here ever had uncontrolled acceleration? I had the throttle on one of my Datsuns jam open when merging onto the freeway. You don't notice until you take your foot off the pedal and it keeps speeding up...

 

Of course, I just left it in gear, aimed for the shoulder and shut it off. No harm, no foul, no damage done.

 

But it seems like today no one thinks of what to do in emergency situations. Maybe it's my training as a boat engineer in the Navy- you had to learn what the reflexes were supposed to be, train to do those thinks automatically, so that you neither panicked nor had to think what to do. When the emergency happens it's too late to think about what needs to happen.

 

 

My floorboard is swiss cheese. there is a replacement chunk down there shitty welded in place. my pedal gets stuck if i punch it too. I dont panic, my brakes work well enough when i hit them they slow the truck down. I just reach down and pull it up by hand, or use my foot to do so.

 

You are right, most people now do not know how to handle emergency situations. I have had no training for any of that shit yet i know i am more skilled then a good chunk of people on the road. Don't get me wrong, i dont think im some super skilled ken block, but better do better than most ppl i see....

[thisismatt]

I thought the same thing Mike, but the model that crashed and burned had a push button ignition switch with a safety feature of not turning off or trying to restart the car when it's running. So pushing it once doesn't turn the car off. Pushing and holding for 3 seconds would have worked, but I doubt many owners knew or know that, and the guy who killed his family after it careened off a cliff or whatever certainly didn't know it.

It has a gear shift with a neutral position, does it not? I mean come on - one of the families that died had a california highway patrol officer driving and they had time to call 911. I'm not too upset about Toyota, though - maybe I won't have to get stuck behind so many moron prius drivers on the freeway.