Insurance company woes.... Smooshed Dime oics inside

[TheBirdistheWord]

Hopefully I can get some ideas on how to handle this.  At the very least I can vent a little but I'm not looking for pats on the head or poetic waxing about how insurance companies are the worst.  I need practical ideas on how to convince state farm that my car is worth more than what they have totalled it for.

 

the story.....

in August I was rear ended, prior to this the car was essentially ready for minor filler and paint. 

 

R.I.P. pristine $1200 GL tail lights.... Anyway, it took 4 months, an attorney, and a firmly worded letter from an insurance regulatory board just to get state farm to accept liability for their insured rear ending me in broad daylight at 30mph.  They eventually did accept 100 percent liability. 

 

They were claiming that my rear lights didn't work despite me showing them still working with the current damage....  Which most people who have been in a rear end collision in California know, is horseshit...

 

so without ever seeing the car, no photos or shop quote, they are calling it a total loss at approximately $7,400.  They tell me they need receipts for purchased parts or work performed to reevaluate the car, photos of it's current partially restored state (chassis/suspension upgrades and undercoating) are irrelevant at this point unless I provide receipts.  Which is also horseshit considering almost all of the upgrades have been installed by me with parts acquired second hand through swap meets over the years. As well as the fact that anyone that is vested in these cars knows that aside from the upper echelon of the market like show cars and jdm bluebirds the upgrades are what give these cars their respective values. 

 

the only thing I have found receipts for so far are the wheels and think I will be able to substantiate the value of the taillights at $1100 by using old messages from ratsun and a PayPal receipt. But I'm pretty sure that everything else of substantial value was purchased locally with cash and Ive lost the receipts for the machine work on the built L20B that's in it currently.  I took a long shot and asked the machine shops that performed the work if they'd be willing to rewrite a receipt and understandably they did not want to get involved in that way....

 

SO with only those parts I'm almost at 50% of state farms evaluation which I think will help, but don't know if it will be enough. 

 

anyone have any ideas?! Any experience to share?  I'm close to Z-Car Garage, does anyone know if they do evaluations like this? Rebello? Troy ermish?  I haven't been able to get a response from z-car on the phone or through email.  I haven't tried the others yet. Could it help enough to warrant the hassle and expense of towing it?

 

 

as always any input is greatly appreciated. 

 

 

[Ranman72]

you can pay an appraiser to come out and do an evaluation knowing the condition before 

especially if you have pictures 

good luck hope it works out for you the 510s are getting more and more expensive 

[TheBirdistheWord]

18 minutes ago, Ranman72 said:

you can pay an appraiser to come out and do an evaluation knowing the condition before 

especially if you have pictures 

good luck hope it works out for you the 510s are getting more and more expensive 

 

Thanks!  Don't know if you remember, but I bought this car from you!  I think it was 9 or 10 years ago. It had the original L16 and 3 speed and pearl white paint.  I drove it to the bay area from Sac with a ZX 5 speed in the trunk.  I started smelling burning ATF about 20 miles into the trip home!  Good times... 😅

[iceman510]

What's the cost to buy it back?  Consider accepting the offer (or whatever more you can negotiate) then buy it back to keep the valuable usable parts.

[angliagt]

           Never take the first offer,unless it's a good one.Many times they'll

low ball you.

                You should make copies of ads for 510's for sale (including Bring a Trailer),

and maybe eBay,using the "sold" auctions,to show what they actually sold for. 

            Years ago,I dealt with State Farm,when my near perfect '68 Cortina got totaled

by one of their insured.I paid $800 for it,but they offered me $3800 for it.

              You also have 1 year to settle with them,or you have to take whatever they offer.

[TheBirdistheWord]

39 minutes ago, iceman510 said:

What's the cost to buy it back?  Consider accepting the offer (or whatever more you can negotiate) then buy it back to keep the valuable usable parts.

Don't know, haven't even asked since I want it fixed. But that's a good question.  I've already considered buying a shell and transferring the parts.  I'd say worst case scenario the rear X member and diff mount are tweaked. Everything else is fine other than the sheet metal so this idea is intriguing to me since I could get a proper appraisal and insurance afterward.  Problem is 2dr shells are basically unicorns now.  I'm not even talking about untouched ones, if it's not rotted I'll take it but that's a tall order nowadays. 

[TheBirdistheWord]

13 minutes ago, angliagt said:

           Never take the first offer,unless it's a good one.Many times they'll

low ball you.

                You should make copies of ads for 510's for sale (including Bring a Trailer),

and maybe eBay,using the "sold" auctions,to show what they actually sold for. 

            Years ago,I dealt with State Farm,when my near perfect '68 Cortina got totaled

by one of their insured.I paid $800 for it,but they offered me $3800 for it.

              You also have 1 year to settle with them,or you have to take whatever they offer.

Copy that, I knew they were going to low ball me, I never expected the rest of the theatrics from them though.  There can't be more than 30 or 40 of these for sale in the entire country from what I can tell.  As far as the ads I've already sent, they are dismissing them for reasons like "the ad doesn't have a phone number so it's not eligible." They won't let me speak directly with the "old car" department that is doing the evaluation because " they are outsourced" and they can't or wont provide where they found the 2 adverts they used for a baseline value. 

 

On top of this they devalued the car 4 grand because it has "200,000 miles". All of this was somehow determined before they saw a single photo of the car. Not to mention using mileage as a metric for value on a 52 year old car is absurd especially for an "old car" department. 

 

My attorney says it's 2 years for property damage claims from the date of the claim regardless of the negotiation process.  My other option is to accept their terms minus anything that protects their insured and take him to court directly for the rest ... This is NOT ideal. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by TheBirdistheWord

[angliagt]

      Sorry - that was the time limit back when that happened to me.

I lived in Eureka,& moved a little over 5 years ago.

         I hope things work out for you.

Edited January 24, 2023 by angliagt

[TheBirdistheWord]

46 minutes ago, angliagt said:

      Sorry - that was the time limit back when that happened to me.

I lived in Eureka,& moved a little over 5 years ago.

         I hope things work out for you.

No need to apologize!  I was just relaying the information I had.  I appreciate the input. 

[thisismatt]

I'm sorry I don't have much to contribute on the subject, but what about asking them to find you an equal replacement if they think it's only worth the peanuts they're offering? I mean, it should be no problem, right?!

[Ooph!]

A few years back after an accident I was getting the same BS about my 99 7.3 F250, the insureds insurance Co. wanted to low ball the repairs and when it got to 8k they told me they would total it.

 Someone suggested using my own insurance, I discussed it with my agent and I had to pay my deductible but they forced the other Co. to pay for the repairs according to my policy standards and paid for the rental pickup until the repairs were complete.

[TheBirdistheWord]

1 hour ago, Ooph! said:

A few years back after an accident I was getting the same BS about my 99 7.3 F250, the insureds insurance Co. wanted to low ball the repairs and when it got to 8k they told me they would total it.

 Someone suggested using my own insurance, I discussed it with my agent and I had to pay my deductible but they forced the other Co. to pay for the repairs according to my policy standards and paid for the rental pickup until the repairs were complete.

Thanks for the suggestion!  However in my case that's not an option.  I only had liability through a standard insurance company, I'm sure I'd likely go this route if I had specialty insurance of some sort.  Admittedly I didn't shop around a whole lot, but in my experience if you'd like to avoid mileage restrictions on an old car liability insurance is all you can get. 

 

The goal now is to get it fixed and get it properly insured and worst case I put a few grand into getting the frame rails properly straightened, pound the rest out to get it road legal and build a beast of an engine to drive the piss out of. 

 

[TheBirdistheWord]

State farm sent out a local custom shop that I chose.  Today I received their initial quote to repair at 12k..... Im hoping that was a liberal estimate and they can get it done for less. 

[angliagt]

         I forgot to add that when the Cortina got totaled,the State Farm agent told me

"I collect antiques,& what you paid for it isn't always replacement value".And she

also mention that she used to have a boyfriend (Allen Carter ?) "that used to rally an

Escort with some guy called Millen". She was referring to Rod Millen,& a REAL Escort. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by angliagt

[Jesse C.]

When my friends car was damaged by a flying mattress on the freeway, the insurance company just tried pay for an old car. He looked up all the parts he could, on ebay and other sites, and printed it all out. He showed them what it would cost to repair the car with current priced items and they finally relented and paid for the true value of the damage. 

 

Going with original receipts has the downfall of prices being devaluated by time. Everything has gone up, especially the car itself. I insured through Hagerty and had to itemize the car. I was a bit shocked at how much I had spent and how much it was worth. The receipt thing is more in their favor to pay you less, so get current value proof on parts and give them that. 

 

Good Luck and bummer about your car. 

[jbirds510]

I dont know about the insurance but I have a nearly complete 69 2 door sedan I'd let go in the ballpark of what they are offering..is a couple weekends work from being a driver already and I'm close, a couple miles from Randy actually. Something to consider if you can't get the results you want from them.   

[MikeRL411]

14 hours ago, Ooph! said:

A few years back after an accident I was getting the same BS about my 99 7.3 F250, the insureds insurance Co. wanted to low ball the repairs and when it got to 8k they told me they would total it.

 Someone suggested using my own insurance, I discussed it with my agent and I had to pay my deductible but they forced the other Co. to pay for the repairs according to my policy standards and paid for the rental pickup until the repairs were complete.

 

The benefit of comprehensive option on auto insurance!

[TheBirdistheWord]

8 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

When my friends car was damaged by a flying mattress on the freeway, the insurance company just tried pay for an old car. He looked up all the parts he could, on ebay and other sites, and printed it all out. He showed them what it would cost to repair the car with current priced items and they finally relented and paid for the true value of the damage. 

 

Going with original receipts has the downfall of prices being devaluated by time. Everything has gone up, especially the car itself. I insured through Hagerty and had to itemize the car. I was a bit shocked at how much I had spent and how much it was worth. The receipt thing is more in their favor to pay you less, so get current value proof on parts and give them that. 

 

Good Luck and bummer about your car. 

This is likely all I can do, if they can find me a comparable vehicle for the same price it's on them to show it or fix mine..... If it's "totaled" or "total value" are relative terms that they are manipulating to their favor than I'm pretty sure I have the advantage to go for the maximum 10k in small claims. 

 

4 hours ago, jbirds510 said:

I dont know about the insurance but I have a nearly complete 69 2 door sedan I'd let go in the ballpark of what they are offering..is a couple weekends work from being a driver already and I'm close, a couple miles from Randy actually. Something to consider if you can't get the results you want from them.   

This is very intriguing! Thank you for the offer.   Would you mind emailing or messaging me some photos?  

 

3 hours ago, MikeRL411 said:

 

The benefit of comprehensive option on auto insurance!

I appreciate this statement.  Tbh for years I ignorantly thought classic car insurance was unattainable for me.  When I found an option that was reasonable there were mileage restrictions which turned me off to the idea.  Was it worth this hassle I'm currently going through to have the "freedom" to drive my property as much as I wanted, whenever I wanted? 

 

Hindsight says no... But I suppose I should reserve judgment until this is over....  

[Ranman72]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:27 PM, TheBirdistheWord said:

 

Thanks!  Don't know if you remember, but I bought this car from you!  I think it was 9 or 10 years ago. It had the original L16 and 3 speed and pearl white paint.  I drove it to the bay area from Sac with a ZX 5 speed in the trunk.  I started smelling burning ATF about 20 miles into the trip home!  Good times... 😅

i remember you but didnt recognize the car at all 

the test drive where we had to push it off the street then replace the battery LOL good times for sure 

I have all my classics insured with an agreed value some are Hagerty and some are AAA not sure if its someone elses fault how that works but it sets a precedence of the value  

sorry to hear this happened 

depending on the damage it could possibly be fixed with a rear clip 

If i remember correctly this car had a salvage title due to a previous accident before these cars sky rocketed in value 

hope this works out for you and if you need parts text me or call if you still have my# I will give you James # 

 

I tried to send you a message in here but it said you cant receive messages 

916 496 7750

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Ranman72

[john510]

Ask yourself what you could even sell that car for.If they offered you 7400 bucks you might want to take it.In all honesty that thing needed a lot of work cosmetically.Was it flared at some point,the rear wheel wells look cut ? This situation is why you insure cars like that with Hagerty if possible.

[Thomas Perkins]

Good luck.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Thomas Perkins

[TheBirdistheWord]

5 hours ago, john510 said:

Ask yourself what you could even sell that car for.If they offered you 7400 bucks you might want to take it.In all honesty that thing needed a lot of work cosmetically.Was it flared at some point,the rear wheel wells look cut ? This situation is why you insure cars like that with Hagerty if possible.

 

The finish isn't as bad as the photos suggest although the metal needed more work than I hoped for.  I was in the process of clearancing the rear fenders for the installed wheels in prep for flares.  It had 4 coats of poorly applied paint when I bought it and I shaved that down over time to it's current state to prep for a proper paint job

 

The way I see it, this is the least I'm going to get and I have about 18 months to try to show them it's worth more before I take it. 

There's a 4dr for sale on ratsun now that isn't running, hast better exterior finish than mine, mostly stock, has rusted out floors and is asking 5k, then another 4 door with an even better exterior but similarly "optioned" chassis to mine and is asking 12k.  My local craigslist is similar my point is that there is no bluebook for these, It is my understanding that one of their only references for value is internet classifieds.  On top of that 2drs historically fetch higher prices

 

I'm not attempting to argue with you, I'm just sharing the logic I'm using with insurance company to try to get my car back. I appreciate the input and I am considering it.

 

4 hours ago, Thomas Perkins said:

Good luck.

Thank you!

Edited January 26, 2023 by TheBirdistheWord

[TheBirdistheWord]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:12 PM, Ranman72 said:

i remember you but didnt recognize the car at all 

the test drive where we had to push it off the street then replace the battery LOL good times for sure 

I have all my classics insured with an agreed value some are Hagerty and some are AAA not sure if its someone elses fault how that works but it sets a precedence of the value  

sorry to hear this happened 

depending on the damage it could possibly be fixed with a rear clip 

If i remember correctly this car had a salvage title due to a previous accident before these cars sky rocketed in value 

hope this works out for you and if you need parts text me or call if you still have my# I will give you James # 

 

I tried to send you a message in here but it said you cant receive messages 

916 496 7750

 

It was salvage when I bought it from you, I have recovered it from a total loss once before 6 years ago.  Which is another reason I'd like to avoid totalling the car, I'm sure California will make it difficult for me to get this back in the road. 

 

Just checked I did still have your number!  I haven't had much luck finding anything in the lane of rollers or body parts on craigslis and Futofab stock of new panels seems hard to come by.  I'll call you soon to talk more thanks!

[john510]

19 hours ago, TheBirdistheWord said:

 

The finish isn't as bad as the photos suggest although the metal needed more work than I hoped for.  I was in the process of clearancing the rear fenders for the installed wheels in prep for flares.  It had 4 coats of poorly applied paint when I bought it and I shaved that down over time to it's current state to prep for a proper paint job

 

The way I see it, this is the least I'm going to get and I have about 18 months to try to show them it's worth more before I take it. 

There's a 4dr for sale on ratsun now that isn't running, hast better exterior finish than mine, mostly stock, has rusted out floors and is asking 5k, then another 4 door with an even better exterior but similarly "optioned" chassis to mine and is asking 12k.  My local craigslist is similar my point is that there is no bluebook for these, It is my understanding that one of their only references for value is internet classifieds.  On top of that 2drs historically fetch higher prices

 

I'm not attempting to argue with you, I'm just sharing the logic I'm using with insurance company to try to get my car back. I appreciate the input and I am considering it.

 

Thank you!

No worries.What happened to you was a big fear of mine when  had my car insured with Allstate.I never could get them to give me a "market value" if something bad were to happen.Hagerty has an agreed value policy.You tell them what you want it insured for and they come up with a yearly cost.I pay $325 a year for a $20,000 guaranteed replacement value.That's full coverages.

[TheBirdistheWord]

Seems i've worn this company down with a firm position, no profanity, and just shy of a power point presentation showing the the modifications I've made.  Don't know what they will end on but total loss dept is on their 3rd re assessment of value.