Cuz Merica

[Draker]

You Drakar? Whats up with the wiki leakage?

 

Silicone Valley? Are the computer nerds gonna go home?

 

My family wants to know?

 

 

 

[Draker]

[q-tip]

The fact of the matter is that NOTHING in this country isn't fucking you over for profit.

Church=profit.

Gubment=profit.

Doctor=profit.

Truck driver=profit.

Chartity=profit.

Beggar=profit.

 

No matter what it all comes down to money, it's what drives anyone to do anything, the root of all evil.

[DaBlist]

[paradime]

Yeah cause the government is so good at running stuff. Ask the vets how the VA is working out for them. 

 

The budget for VA healthcare comes from a $68.4 billion allocation for discretionary spending in the Department of Veterans Affairs’ $164 Billion over all budget. The VA decides how to spend that money, not congress. That being said, I don't trust the Government, but there are many first world example of very successful single payer healthcare models. Healthcare systems that cost less, and have better outcomes than ours. 

[67_1600]

Honing pigeons, messages in bottles and postcards should be the future of high security clearance.

 

[tr8er]

Yeah cause the government is so good at running stuff. Ask the vets how the VA is working out for them.

"But the longest and most onerous waits are associated with the time it takes to determine if veterans are eligible to receive care at the VA, and at what level. This determination is done precisely because the VA is not a single-payer system. It doesn't cover everyone; it's not accessible to every veteran; it is just one payer among many in our fragmented system. Currently about 2.3 million veterans and their family members are completely uninsured.

In contrast, a single-payer national health program would cover everyone and allow them to choose any provider and source of care in the U.S."

-PNHP

 

It's compelling to use the V.A. as a case in point, but the irony is that fragmenting care in this way, necessarily diminishes the overall capacity.

 

And what is up with this can't do attitude the right keeps agendizing. Perhaps we should have stopped Space exploration in the 50's because our first launch failed. If we are a great nation, we should be able to handle healthcare. Or are we afraid those in government are shocked at how complicated the health care issue is...

[tr8er]

Why is one business not regarded in the same as all others? If we follow your logic then the next business is anything dealing with food which is very predatory after all no one can get by with out food. Food is connected to transportation which is very predatory, and so on down the line. Every business model needs to be destroyed. Hell lets just call ourselves the new USSR.

That's a terrible suggestion for a name by the way. Food is healthcare, and as such the FDA regulates. The method of reembursment for physicians would not play into it though, unless you are talking about "Medical Foods", which are prescribed. Transportation? I think at this point you felt your own logic crumble, so I'll just leave that one.

[Rjawm]

Why is one business not regarded in the same as all others? If we follow your logic then the next business is anything dealing with food which is very predatory after all no one can get by with out food. Food is connected to transportation which is very predatory, and so on down the line. Every business model needs to be destroyed. Hell lets just call ourselves the new USSR.

 

 

The Healthcare industry in particular shouldn't be an industry at all is the issue.  It shouldn't be able to put itself in with the other industries.  They do not churn out a product of any sort in a comparable way.  They provide a service, a service of health maintenance.

 

Unfortunately the current broken political system we have that allows large corporations, in this instance the pharmaceutical industry, to form lobbyist groups with huge cash stockpiles to swing votes in their favor has allowed our "healthcare system" to be bought and owned by the pharmaceutical companies.  We now have drugs fast tracked without proper testing, then pushed by pharma reps to doctors, who in turn prescribe the drug not based on actual need but by kickbacks and "company" policies. 

 

The pharmaceutical industry is who truly currently "runs" our healthcare industry, and they could give 2 shits about your actual health.  You just need there hot new drug, keep their profits high and you are a great patient.  Get healthy and off their drugs, you become the enemy.

 

That is the current "healthcare" problem.  We need a non-industry, non-bottomline profit driven healthcare system.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

stoned honing pigeon stone?

 

[125 CSL]

shemale Clinton sounds exactly like most lib/pro/dem numale politicians!

 

This is actually a huge point or two.

The premise of the play is that Clinton lost for one reason, she was a woman. The play is the debates done with a Woman as Trump same words and mannerism, the Man Clinton words and mannerism.

Instead of getting the results the people wanted, the play(by the way was done in NYC) showed woman with Trump's words and actions came across as honest and won the debate, The man came across as untrustworthy. Even after figuring this for themselves, the people saw how Trump won the election, but still hated him.

[Draker]

"But the longest and most onerous waits are associated with the time it takes to determine if veterans are eligible to receive care at the VA, and at what level. This determination is done precisely because the VA is not a single-payer system. It doesn't cover everyone; it's not accessible to every veteran; it is just one payer among many in our fragmented system. Currently about 2.3 million veterans and their family members are completely uninsured.

In contrast, a single-payer national health program would cover everyone and allow them to choose any provider and source of care in the U.S."

-PNHP

 

It's compelling to use the V.A. as a case in point, but the irony is that fragmenting care in this way, necessarily diminishes the overall capacity.

 

And what is up with this can't do attitude the right keeps agendizing. Perhaps we should have stopped Space exploration in the 50's because our first launch failed. If we are a great nation, we should be able to handle healthcare. Or are we afraid those in government are shocked at how complicated the health care issue is...

 

 

 

 

What specifically is wrong with the VA argument? It's an example of how government has shit the bed running health care top to bottom.

 

 

Now if we want to talk about insurance programs.. well how about medicare? That's going pretty good, right? Current calculations show it will be bankrupt in about 6-7 years. It's funny how a program fails when you design it in a way to spend $3 for every $1 paid into it.

 

The Affordable Care Act, that seems to be going good. So good all the insurance companies are bailing out. So good in fact premiums only climb by triple digits, that keeps it affordable.. And I only get taxed a little bit if I choose NOT to sign up. 

 

Lets face it, government is not good at this stuff. Too many people along the chain of command want to line their pockets with money to appease a lobbyist. 

[tr8er]

The Healthcare industry in particular shouldn't be an industry at all is the issue. It shouldn't be able to put itself in with the other industries. They do not churn out a product of any sort in a comparable way. They provide a service, a service of health maintenance.

 

Unfortunately the current broken political system we have that allows large corporations, in this instance the pharmaceutical industry, to form lobbyist groups with huge cash stockpiles to swing votes in their favor has allowed our "healthcare system" to be bought and owned by the pharmaceutical companies. We now have drugs fast tracked without proper testing, then pushed by pharma reps to doctors, who in turn prescribe the drug not based on actual need but by kickbacks and "company" policies.

 

The pharmaceutical industry is who truly currently "runs" our healthcare industry, and they could give 2 shits about your actual health. You just need there hot new drug, keep their profits high and you are a great patient. Get healthy and off their drugs, you become the enemy.

 

That is the current "healthcare" problem. We need a non-industry, non-bottomline profit driven healthcare system.

Yup. The way free market works is that people essentially vote with their dollar. The Insurance industry has removed the consumer from this free market principle. If there were no insurance companies, we would almost surely be a much healthier society. People would only dish out money to see doctors who were reputed to HEAL. They would go to great lengths to get off prescriptions as soon as possible (again, HEALING). They would live, eat, work, with their health in mind. Currently, we don't give a shit!!! The mentality is, fuck it, I pay insurance for a reason, I'm getting a big mac and eating it in front of a TV. If I get sick, I'll take three pills a day so I can keep eating big macs.

 

That ^^, is why insurance companies are healthy, pharma is healthy, doctors are healthy, med schools are healthy, college lenders are healthy, and why our citizens are sick. The price of care has been driven so high over many generations, that people generally can't afford out of pocket care. That is what insurance companies do. They pay doctors very well with little to no negotiating. They pay pharma well with little to no negotiating. They charge monthly to the sick as well as the healthy so people never get stuck with a big hospital bill they can't cover. They know businesses will pay because a job that offers coverage is more desirable. As well, it's a business write off (see subsidy). Some even cover families. That's a HUGE chunk of customers right there. A large enough percentage of the market to manipulate pricing over time. And once that is done, no one can afford to not have insurance because the cost of care is artificially way too high.

 

The reigns of this market need to be removed from the private sector, or regulated to hell. Regulation fails because of lobbyists and revolving door politics. But a world leading, AMERICAN MADE health care model that we can be proud of and live healthy wealthy life's is where logic takes us.

 

Think more, listen less.

 

By the way. Private insurance is just a clever way of re-branding and fragmenting a levelized cost to a larger group of insurees. Exactly what universal coverage does, except on a larger scale. Any levelized structure is more successful with scale. We could make something great, and the new model would incentivize pharma to make medicine that heals. This is almost worthy in its own right to remove healthcare from private industry.

[125 CSL]

That's a terrible suggestion for a name by the way. Food is healthcare, and as such the FDA regulates. The method of reembursment for physicians would not play into it though, unless you are talking about "Medical Foods", which are prescribed. Transportation? I think at this point you felt your own logic crumble, so I'll just leave that one.

 

Every thing you do is connected to your health. So every business is connected to healthcare. Before 0bamacare it was not perfect, but it was 100% better then day it became law.

[Draker]

In my opinion, the way you tackle health care is to simply make health care cheaper.

 

Why do we pay $1000 for a prescription that is offered in other countries for $250?

 

How come when you go buy a car, tv, house, etc the price is posted? You can look it up online, you can get reviews from others.. but when you go to get surgery you have to wait 2-6 months afterwards to find out what it will cost?

 

Why can't you find out if a doctor killed 50% of his heart surgery patients?

What if you could opt to pay more for a doctor with a higher success rate, even if that would mean you had to travel further away?

 

You know, just like ANYTHING ELSE you'd buy. What specifically makes health care different?

[Draker]

A little late on my response above but it appears we are in agreement. 

[125 CSL]

Yup. The way free market works is that people essentially vote with their dollar. The Insurance industry has removed the consumer from this free market principle. If there were no insurance companies, we would almost surely be a much healthier society. People would only dish out money to see doctors who were reputed to HEAL. They would go to great lengths to get off prescriptions as soon as possible (again, HEALING). They would live, eat, work, with their health in mind. Currently, we don't give a shit!!! The mentality is, fuck it, I pay insurance for a reason, I'm getting a big mac and eating it in front of a TV. If I get sick, I'll take three pills a day so I can keep eating big macs.

 

That ^^, is why insurance companies are healthy, pharma is healthy, doctors are healthy, med schools are healthy, college lenders are healthy, and why our citizens are sick. The price of care has been driven so high over many generations, that people generally can't afford out of pocket care. That is what insurance companies do. They pay doctors very well with little to no negotiating. They pay pharma well with little to no negotiating. They charge monthly to the sick as well as the healthy so people never get stuck with a big hospital bill they can't cover. They know businesses will pay because a job that offers coverage is more desirable. As well, it's a business write off (see subsidy). Some even cover families. That's a HUGE chunk of customers right there. A large enough percentage of the market to manipulate pricing over time. And once that is done, no one can afford to not have insurance because the cost of care is artificially way too high.

 

The reigns of this market need to be removed from the private sector, or regulated to hell. Regulation fails because of lobbyists and revolving door politics. But a world leading, AMERICAN MADE health care model that we can be proud of and live healthy wealthy life's is where logic takes us.

 

Think more, listen less.

 

By the way. Private insurance is just a clever way of re-branding and fragmenting a levelized cost to a larger group of insurees. Exactly what universal coverage does, except on a larger scale. Any levelized structure is more successful with scale. We could make something great, and the new model would incentivize pharma to make medicine that heals. This is almost worthy in its own right to remove healthcare from private industry.

damned if I had not seen your name connected to this post I would have thought it was from something I would have said. EXCEPT the market needs to be removed from the private sector(and regulation to hell), which is really the only way it should go. Oh and the health care fields you say that are healthy, well in reality not really.

and on a side note, what doctors and pharma get as payments is set on what medicare/medicaid pay.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has run out of money so more help for the middle class will have to wait

Thu., Feb. 23, 2017

 

So what, in 2017, does getting real about the challenges facing the middle class look like? Maybe not that much. “The problem,” a senior Liberal told me this week, is that substantial measures to help the middle class “don’t match our fiscal framework. We don’t have the money to be that generous. And the populist budget was last year.”

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/02/23/prime-minister-justin-trudeau-has-run-out-of-money-so-more-help-for-the-middle-class-will-have-to-wait-paul-wells.html

 

Justin Trudeau marks International Women's Day with $650M for reproductive rights

Mar 08, 2017

 

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau marked International Women's Day by promising $650 million for reproductive health and rights around the world. The figure represents a doubling of current funding, Trudeau said in Ottawa this morning.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-women-reproductive-rights-1.4014841

 

bonus!!!! the comments section of the second article suggests that Canadians haven't forgotten the first article!

[Mattndew76]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/your-money/dealing-with-doctors-who-accept-only-cash.html

 

Old article but kinda plays into what a true free market clinic would be like. There is an actual Pro/Con argument here.

 

another reasonable article from Time

 

http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/

[paradime]

If I could choose any healthcare plan right now, it would be the Federal Employee Healthcare Plan. It is extremely comprehensive, does not require a referral to see a specialist, all drugs are covered, and zero% of a procedure cost is passed on to the patient. And the fact is, I'm already paying for it. But when I retire, I'm eligible Medicare where I'll have to search for a hospital and Dr. who will see me, I'm stuck with all kinds of passed on costs. And the fact is, I've been paying my whole working life for that shit.

[125 CSL]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/your-money/dealing-with-doctors-who-accept-only-cash.html

 

Old article but kinda plays into what a true free market clinic would be like. There is an actual Pro/Con argument here.

 

another reasonable article from Time

 

http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/

The big problem is no one set aside money. i know some of my co-workers(and we are in the health care field) live in debt from paycheck to paycheck.

Both articles from TIME/NYT shockingly cover the subject very good.

[Rjawm]

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[Mattndew76]

The big problem is no one set aside money. i know some of my co-workers(and we are in the health care field) live in debt from paycheck to paycheck.

Both articles from TIME/NYT shockingly cover the subject very good.

 

Yeah this is the reason I am totally Pro on the healthcare savings account. Tax free dollars set aside to spend on future or current issues without the penalty of losing the money like the current flex spending trap is. 

 

If this idea can be streamlined I think it has potential to do good things for families. As long as it doesn't go the way of the SSI system where politicians can get their greedy fucking pinchers on our health savings.

[tr8er]

It's too late for health savings accounts. Cost are too high and they are entrenched in those costs. It would literally take a generation to slowly moderate insurances previous cost stage. I think this (Health Savings Accounts) is how it always should have been, but the attempt to get there now would honestly just bring us right back into the same trap. They are set. Entrenched. Health savings accounts have been an option for a long ass time. But medical costs are standardized by insurance companies who want healthcare to be unaffordable.

 

You want to fix our healthcare, just pursue the path that the AMA lobbies against with the most veracity. Single Payer.