Kirden Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Psh, moar falcon van imo. Give us slowpokes time to catch up on the Datsun projects. Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I shoved the stripped 200SX axle I got from Lonestar under the car today to start grokking how I'm going to do the "four" link suspension. It looks like the lower pickup points line up pretty well with the stock leaf spring mounts. I think the uppers will triangulate forward and down to just shy of the spring mounts making cocked "A" arms which I hope will locate everything without the need for a Panhard bar or Watts link... though a Watts link would be cool as! It also appears as though a set of very short coil springs will work twixt the axle's spring perches and the chassis' bump stop pads. Did I mention VERY short springs? Well, we'll see. 2 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 At lunch today, I went to the local dirt track shop and bought a pair of 18.5" track rods and four Heim joints to play with the suspension a bit more. After work, we got the axle mocked up in almost the right spot. I discovered that 18.5" is a tad too long for the lower rod from the front spring perch to the lower pickup on the axle... and it is a tad too short for the upper rod from the same spring perch to the upper pickup on the axle. I went back to the dirt track shop after work and returned the 18.5's then got two 18" and two 19" rods... and four more Heim joints. I think that this setup is going to work swimmingly. John is not convinced it will triangulate and prevent side to side movement... and I'm beginning to question it myself, but we'll see once we get it all bolted up, nice and solid. I think John took a picture of it before I traded in the 18.5" rods. John? 2 Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 went to the local dirt track shop and bought a pair of 18.5" track rods and four Heim joints to play with the suspension a bit more. got the axle mocked up in almost the right spot. I discovered that 18.5" is a tad too long for the lower rod from the front spring perch to the lower pickup on the axle.... 2 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I made a couple pairs of front hangers today and test fit the track rods. Remember how the 18.5" rods were a tad too long for the bottom links? Yeah, 18" is too long too. I'm debating whether I'm going to trim 1/2" from each end or go trade these for some 17" rods. I'll probably go the trade-in route. Anyhoo, we couldn't really tell if the whole contraption is going to self-triangulate because we need some spacers to keep all the Heim joints steady in the various... clevi? I have the room in the front pickups for a diagonal rod from one chassis point to the opposite axle pickup point, but the angles are wicked tight. We'll see. 2 Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I made a couple pairs of front hangers today and test fit the track rods 3 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 We went back to the circle track shop again at lunch and picked up some really cool Heim joint spacer misalignment thingies... which was not the right thing to do as it turns out. With all of the thingies in place, the upper arms bind up so bad that the thing can NOT be assembled. I wound up swapping a thingy for a... different thingy and got it together, and it does triangulate without the need for a Panhard bar! (So nanny nanny boo boo on John... for the time being.) The thing is still bound up pretty bad, and I may have to ditch my design and replicate the factory setup, but first I'm going to try replacing the "less-misalignment" thingies with "more-misalignment" thingies and see if I can make it work. I am sure I am right dammit! 3 Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I am sure I am right dammit! I can think of no better reason to do something. ^_^ 1 Quote Link to comment
Kirden Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 You know, I bet whatchamacallits would work better than thingies in this setup. If not you could always try doohickeys. I'm very happy that spell check supports both of these words... 3 Quote Link to comment
dukerollo Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 With the front pivots that close to the same plane, you basically have a ladder bar set up (unless the angle of the pic is throwing things off). I say either embrace the ladder bar set up, ditch the triangulation, and run a panhard, or move the upper forward mounts up so that the bars are closer to parallel with the lowers. B310s have a pretty compact triangulated 4 link you could ape. Your car is cool as hell btw.... Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 B310s have a pretty compact triangulated 4 link you could ape. The S110 housing/diff he's using is the same setup as the B310. So that is what it was originally made to do. Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 With the front pivots that close to the same plane, you basically have a ladder bar set up (unless the angle of the pic is throwing things off). I say either embrace the ladder bar set up, ditch the triangulation, and run a panhard, or move the upper forward mounts up so that the bars are closer to parallel with the lowers. B310s have a pretty compact triangulated 4 link you could ape. Your car is cool as hell btw.... Yes, it is essentially a ladder bar setup. I was willing to allow that my design might not triangulate and that I would need a Panhard rod until I forced it all together the other day. I'm going to try one more thing to see if I can't get more misalignment in the Heim joints and the desired triangulation. If that fails, I will abandon this scheme and replicate the factory setup. Surely Sonny at Smiley's can't be sick of me trading in track rods, can he? And thank you on the "cool as hell" bit. I try. 2 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 After removing two of the thingies and replacing them with doohickeys, I was able to bolt everything up. Two Heim joints need a bit of massaging to work out the kinks I put in them, but I think we're on to something here. The upper rods do triangulate the system and the only side to side movement is due to (tee hee, I said "doo doo"!) slack in the threads where the Heim joints need to be lock nutted down... and the bushings in the frame where the front hanger is bolted. I think, once we finger out and install springs and shocks it will be solid as... well, y'know, necessary. Now I just need to decide if I'm going to enter into the arms race with John over who's 1200 is going to be lower or jack it up and finally build that faux rally car I have always wanted. I do have the Lotus Seven as a sporty low slung hoon-a-tronic toy. Time to go rally tire shopping! 4 Quote Link to comment
dukerollo Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Slammed rally car? Big driving lights and everything. 2 Quote Link to comment
Kirden Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Woot, glad the doohickeys worked out for you. It was a long shot but you guys always figure it out. I like both ideas, but seeing a rally setup would be pretty awesome. Your seven is amazing, can't believe it didn't sell when you put it up. Guess some people just don't see how practical it is. You guys always give me amazing ideas, and my wallet always shits on them :( So, I'm honestly not familiar with link systems other than those crazy parallel links that were on my mazda. I know for racing twisties they are supposed to be better than the springs, but is it really that noticeable? I never understood how you wouldn't get that dreaded crawl without something like a panhard for competitive driving, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Can't wait to see pictures of the progress :) 1 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Slammed rally car? Big driving lights and everything. No, if I do go the rally car route, it will be jacked up as high as necessary to get some 25-27 inch tall all terrain tires under there... with the big driving lights and everything. We have the push bar off of a Crown Vic cop car sitting in the corner. I imagine that would be put to use as well. I'm not saying I'm going this route... but I'm not saying I'm not either. We'll see what I have to say tomorrow after John either slaps some sense into me or enables my dumbassery. 3 Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Woot, glad the doohickeys worked out for you. It was a long shot but you guys always figure it out. I like both ideas, but seeing a rally setup would be pretty awesome. Your seven is amazing, can't believe it didn't sell when you put it up. Guess some people just don't see how practical it is. You guys always give me amazing ideas, and my wallet always shits on them :( So, I'm honestly not familiar with link systems other than those crazy parallel links that were on my mazda. I know for racing twisties they are supposed to be better than the springs, but is it really that noticeable? I never understood how you wouldn't get that dreaded crawl without something like a panhard for competitive driving, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Can't wait to see pictures of the progress :) Yup, doohickeys seemed to be the answer. I CAN believe it didn't sell! I was asking about twice what it is worth because a) I didn't need to sell it and 2) I didn't really WANT to sell it! I have absolutely no empirical data to back up my desire to make this link system work. I have just been looking at it for at least twenty years wondering, "What if?" and now am finally making it happen... y'know, if it works. 2 Quote Link to comment
Kirden Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Damn guys, that looks pretty neat. Looking at it again it does looks like it would be pretty sturdy. The struts and springs might be enough to hold it in place pretty well. If you go rally are you going to do those underside braces? Something like those Subarus use? That seems like a lifesaver on a 40+ year old vehicle to help keep the body straight, but I'm not sure how often you'll be going airborne either :P 25 inch mudders with a push bar and a high stance, that makes me feel giddy like a school girl. 1 Quote Link to comment
DaBlist Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 It looks like the upper and lower bars share the same front mounting point? If so this will act like a ladder bar suspension used for drag racing and is not designed to articulate, fine for going straight on flat drag strips. On the street the body will be trying to flex and rear axle housing will be trying to twist. The car will act and handle like you have a really really stiff rear sway bar. Edit: I see that a bunch of this has been covered already - reading, not just for the edgejewmaucated anymore 2 Quote Link to comment
Mattndew76 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Do this one. 2 Quote Link to comment
DaBlist Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Maybe those bars should connect to the front wheels Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 It looks like the upper and lower bars share the same front mounting point? If so this will act like a ladder bar suspension used for drag racing and is not designed to articulate, fine for going straight on flat drag strips. On the street the body will be trying to flex and rear axle housing will be trying to twist. The car will act and handle like you have a really really stiff rear sway bar. Yes... all of that what you said. It does want to twist the axle when one side is raised, but I contend that a true four-link does that too. I'm not so pig headed that I won't still consider what Mattndew76 suggested, seeing as how that Is basically replicating the factory setup... with Heim jointed rods. We'll see. Quote Link to comment
dimlight65 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Damn guys, that looks pretty neat. Looking at it again it does looks like it would be pretty sturdy. The struts and springs might be enough to hold it in place pretty well. If you go rally are you going to do those underside braces? Something like those Subarus use? That seems like a lifesaver on a 40+ year old vehicle to help keep the body straight, but I'm not sure how often you'll be going airborne either :P 25 inch mudders with a push bar and a high stance, that makes me feel giddy like a school girl. Hmm, I hadn't really given chassis flex much thought. While I have the thing blown apart, I guess I'll put in a cage. Damn, there's more money down this pit... and time! I guess the fiftieth birthday deadline is out the window for sure now. Quote Link to comment
jrock4224 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 You know what's sad, as a kid I would have considered those cutoffs "too long" ... you know what as a adult i can say this statement made me not only throw up a little in my mouth but also burned a image in my head that will make me uhhhh Quote Link to comment
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