guns

[Soundline]

I can’t necessarily say I agree with the “combat kills” portion of your comment Frankendat.  Many first wave Millennials have now completed 20 years of service.  Every day of it was during a time of war with multiple combat deployments.  All of my time down range was with 9mm and 5.56.  They get the job done.

 

I won’t knock the 1911 though.  I also don’t talk trash about Korean War, Vietnam Policing Actions, Panama, Hati, Bosnia, Rwanda, Yemen, Libya, Laos, Cambodia, Turkey, Israel, WW 2, or any other blood thirsty conflict.   
 

unfortunately I’m not the biggest badass that’s ever been on the internet.  Hell, I’m not even the baddest mf’er on Ratsun.

[frankendat]

4 hours ago, Soundline said:

I can’t necessarily say I agree with the “combat kills” portion of your comment Frankendat.  Many first wave Millennials have now completed 20 years of service.  Every day of it was during a time of war with multiple combat deployments.  All of my time down range was with 9mm and 5.56.  They get the job done.

 

I won’t knock the 1911 though.  I also don’t talk trash about Korean War, Vietnam Policing Actions, Panama, Hati, Bosnia, Rwanda, Yemen, Libya, Laos, Cambodia, Turkey, Israel, WW 2, or any other blood thirsty conflict.   
 

unfortunately I’m not the biggest badass that’s ever been on the internet.  Hell, I’m not even the baddest mf’er on Ratsun.

It is difficult to discuss history, as lately it is subject to revision. Stats  I found,  claim 85,000,000 dead in WWII making it the deadliest war, but the research was from 1976. Even with more recent numbers and combining all the Middle Eastern wars, numbers dead are far less, it isn’t even close.

However, the ongoing wars in the middle east, have provided a mammoth of data on long distance and close quarters  killing. It even brought my feelings  about the short M4 up to tolerable.  Short M4 5.56mm performance is awful for a rifle, but as a 3 point of contact pistol, I concede, it is not objectively inferior. I believe there are substantially better options, but then I fall victim to the same folly of interpretation of facts and prioritizing what I believe substantial.

[Soundline]

11 hours ago, frankendat said:

It is difficult to discuss history, as lately it is subject to revision. Stats  I found,  claim 85,000,000 dead in WWII making it the deadliest war, but the research was from 1976. Even with more recent numbers and combining all the Middle Eastern wars, numbers dead are far less, it isn’t even close.

However, the ongoing wars in the middle east, have provided a mammoth of data on long distance and close quarters  killing. It even brought my feelings  about the short M4 up to tolerable.  Short M4 5.56mm performance is awful for a rifle, but as a 3 point of contact pistol, I concede, it is not objectively inferior. I believe there are substantially better options, but then I fall victim to the same folly of interpretation of facts and prioritizing what I believe substantial.

Ahhhh, I see. I misinterpreted what you meant by “combat kills”. That’s my bad.  I thought you meant combat kills by individual combatants.  I believe it’s reasonable to assume the average soldier has the ability in 10 years of GWOT to have been in sufficient positions to have needed to use lethal force more than shorter conflicts.  That being said, my Generation doesn’t have an Audie Murphy, John Basilone, or even a Jack Pershing.  
 

I’ve witnessed what we can now do with the volume of fire afforded by the 5.56, and I assure you Gen Patton would have wanted that.  In a firefight it’s become doctrine that the side that fires the most bullets wins.  Right, wrong, or indifferent that’s the position our current military leaders hold.  Each operator carries many more “chances to miss” with the M4/M16 platform than the M14 or M1.  You are 100% correct in your assertion that the .45 ACP and 7.62x51/.308 are more ballistically significant on humans.  
 

You’re also correct in the 11.5” and under M4 variants are not great.  I’m going from memory on the barrel length I’m about to quote, but I recall that Eugene Stoner designed the 5.56 AR platform to utilize an 18 or 20” barrel.  Effectively cutting that in half severely limits the ability to maximize the cartridge powder.  In close quarters without a suppressor, you might as well be juggling flash bangs.  If you are running a suppressor, it still sucks and you’re playing “let’s make this fucker malfunction”.  It’s not a question of if the weapon will foul and fail, but when.

 

From my experience, this is a range toy, not a combat weapon.  

[Soundline]

This, now this will get the job done.

 

Winchester Model 1897 > Colt Commando

 

Just ask the German Government.

[frankendat]

5 hours ago, Soundline said:

Ahhhh, I see. I misinterpreted what you meant by “combat kills”. That’s my bad.  I thought you meant combat kills by individual combatants.  I believe it’s reasonable to assume the average soldier has the ability in 10 years of GWOT to have been in sufficient positions to have needed to use lethal force more than shorter conflicts.  That being said, my Generation doesn’t have an Audie Murphy, John Basilone, or even a Jack Pershing.  
 

I’ve witnessed what we can now do with the volume of fire afforded by the 5.56, and I assure you Gen Patton would have wanted that.  In a firefight it’s become doctrine that the side that fires the most bullets wins.  Right, wrong, or indifferent that’s the position our current military leaders hold.  Each operator carries many more “chances to miss” with the M4/M16 platform than the M14 or M1.  You are 100% correct in your assertion that the .45 ACP and 7.62x51/.308 are more ballistically significant on humans.  
 

You’re also correct in the 11.5” and under M4 variants are not great.  I’m going from memory on the barrel length I’m about to quote, but I recall that Eugene Stoner designed the 5.56 AR platform to utilize an 18 or 20” barrel.  Effectively cutting that in half severely limits the ability to maximize the cartridge powder.  In close quarters without a suppressor, you might as well be juggling flash bangs.  If you are running a suppressor, it still sucks and you’re playing “let’s make this fucker malfunction”.  It’s not a question of if the weapon will foul and fail, but when.

 

From my experience, this is a range toy, not a combat weapon.  

We are part of the same gang.  On these issues my thoughts mirror your thoughts. It was a friend of mine who spent time in the Middle East, both as solider and as private operator, who provided  the M4 data. His observations: The military is not spending the time or money training regular soldiers to be tack drivers. The military is and has been mostly successful at bringing young men and women into firearm competency. If he made contact, on patrol training a couple FNG and all three of them returned fire,(auto, clip dumps) more often than not,  threat would be neutralized.  He also agreed that the short M4’s are weak and multiple hits were necessary to stop dedicated combatants.  But, the 5.56 M4 has controllable muzzle rise and almost zero recoil, multiple hits are fast and pretty much SOP. Keys to the effectiveness  of the M4 are large caches of ammo and multiple actors. The same keys that turn the effectiveness of the Military’s engagement policy.

I disagree with the latter and former, but understand the logic, for military use. The problem is this policy has infected our culture. It is pushed by the growing numbers of war veterans in police and Federal Enforcement Agencies, along with inaccurate, exaggerated, incorrect depictions of firearms, that fill the media.

And  I think I remember, but forget, I am GENX, aren’t you?

[Soundline]

18 hours ago, frankendat said:

We are part of the same gang.  On these issues my thoughts mirror your thoughts. It was a friend of mine who spent time in the Middle East, both as solider and as private operator, who provided  the M4 data. His observations: The military is not spending the time or money training regular soldiers to be tack drivers. The military is and has been mostly successful at bringing young men and women into firearm competency. If he made contact, on patrol training a couple FNG and all three of them returned fire,(auto, clip dumps) more often than not,  threat would be neutralized.  He also agreed that the short M4’s are weak and multiple hits were necessary to stop dedicated combatants.  But, the 5.56 M4 has controllable muzzle rise and almost zero recoil, multiple hits are fast and pretty much SOP. Keys to the effectiveness  of the M4 are large caches of ammo and multiple actors. The same keys that turn the effectiveness of the Military’s engagement policy.

 

I disagree with the latter and former, but understand the logic, for military use. The problem is this policy has infected our culture. It is pushed by the growing numbers of war veterans in police and Federal Enforcement Agencies, along with inaccurate, exaggerated, incorrect depictions of firearms, that fill the media.

 

And  I think I remember, but forget, I am GENX, aren’t you?

I was born waaaaaaay back in the year of Our Lord nineteen-hundred-and-eighty-one.  So I’m a millennial.  Just barely, but it is what it is.

 

When I was a cop the AR-15 requirements drove me insane.  I get it, the biggest issue we had was trying to find a way to get 100% ballistic energy transfer.  For anyone who isn’t a total gun nerd, that means you shoot someone and the bullet doesn’t go through them to hit people behind them.  This is impossible because bullets do weird things when hitting flesh wrapped bone.  For instance I witnessed a man take a 5.56 out of a Colt 6920 16” barrel to the face less than ten feet from the end of the barrel with a Winchester jacked 55 grain hollow point. The bullet impacted just under his left eye.  It deflected off his cheekbone and exited behind his left ear.  It caused his head to turn left.  We made eye contact and then he charged the guy who shot him.  I was on his left side, I saw the entire exchange.  This individual was sober, his toxicology came back completely clean, no drugs.  He’s still alive today, and he’s out of corrections.

 

The military concept of the mag dump is a TERRIBLE CONCEPT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.  I want to make my stance on this abundantly clear.  Police need disciplined, competent, effective fire to minimize civilian casualties.  When I went through the Basic Law Enforcement Academy in WA State after I left contract work in 10’ there was ZERO rifle training.  We had a single afternoon of it at our department after you got out, then you were certified to shoot humans on busy urban streets.  It drove me nuts, but that’s the legal requirement.  At least the pepper spray and taser courses were three days a piece.

[frankendat]

3 hours ago, Soundline said:

I was born waaaaaaay back in the year of Our Lord nineteen-hundred-and-eighty-one.  So I’m a millennial.  Just barely, but it is what it is.

 

When I was a cop the AR-15 requirements drove me insane.  I get it, the biggest issue we had was trying to find a way to get 100% ballistic energy transfer.  For anyone who isn’t a total gun nerd, that means you shoot someone and the bullet doesn’t go through them to hit people behind them.  This is impossible because bullets do weird things when hitting flesh wrapped bone.  For instance I witnessed a man take a 5.56 out of a Colt 6920 16” barrel to the face less than ten feet from the end of the barrel with a Winchester jacked 55 grain hollow point. The bullet impacted just under his left eye.  It deflected off his cheekbone and exited behind his left ear.  It caused his head to turn left.  We made eye contact and then he charged the guy who shot him.  I was on his left side, I saw the entire exchange.  This individual was sober, his toxicology came back completely clean, no drugs.  He’s still alive today, and he’s out of corrections.

 

The military concept of the mag dump is a TERRIBLE CONCEPT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.  I want to make my stance on this abundantly clear.  Police need disciplined, competent, effective fire to minimize civilian casualties.  When I went through the Basic Law Enforcement Academy in WA State after I left contract work in 10’ there was ZERO rifle training.  We had a single afternoon of it at our department after you got out, then you were certified to shoot humans on busy urban streets.  It drove me nuts, but that’s the legal requirement.  At least the pepper spray and taser courses were three days a piece.

You do your generation proud. I have few millennial I would share a foxhole. I would instruct the majority to move out and draw fire. It is well established, that larger slow bullets transfer ballistic energy transfer more efficiently, than small fast bullets. (IN GENERAL, with some exceptions on the extreme ends of the spectrum). Back in the day, I acquired some 12gauge 650gr flat nose slugs from a Russian fellow. In the last few years, I read that a US company began manufacture of the same slug. The Russian made them individually on his lathe. The ones I purchased here look exactly like the Russians. I hope he made money on the design. Anyway, I calculated the energy of those slugs, it was insane. I saw a big black bear hit center mass with one, at about 30 yards and it didn't take a step.

 

When some headline reads, police fire XXX rounds in shoot out. suspect in custody and charged with this and that. The next lines should read, Officer A, Officer B, and Officer C terminated for negligence of duty. For standard patrol officers "cover fire" should be extremely limited or banned. I understand lack of training and adrenaline might bring missed targets, but if you do not have a sight picture of what is intended destroyed--don't shoot. 

 

A good argument  can be made, that standard patrol should return to the double action  revolver. With more resources dedicated to marksmanship and special teams. If outgunned an officer is to retreat and/or take cover and call special teams. Special teams arrive with snipers and all the military toys, their job to eliminate the threat by whatever methods necessary. Special teams would not negotiate.

 

 

[Dave 240Z]

Years ago in Palm Beach County, Police were chasing a bad guy on the expressway and shooting at his vehicle. After numerous miles, of that they chased him on city streets. On his way past, he shot a meter maid. He finally crashed, got out of the car and shot himself in the head. They justified the 88 bullets fired by the police. Only 3 hit the man’s car. None hit him.

[Soundline]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

You do your generation proud. I have few millennial I would share a foxhole. I would instruct the majority to move out and draw fire. It is well established, that larger slow bullets transfer ballistic energy transfer more efficiently, than small fast bullets. (IN GENERAL, with some exceptions on the extreme ends of the spectrum). Back in the day, I acquired some 12gauge 650gr flat nose slugs from a Russian fellow. In the last few years, I read that a US company began manufacture of the same slug. The Russian made them individually on his lathe. The ones I purchased here look exactly like the Russians. I hope he made money on the design. Anyway, I calculated the energy of those slugs, it was insane. I saw a big black bear hit center mass with one, at about 30 yards and it didn't take a step.

 

When some headline reads, police fire XXX rounds in shoot out. suspect in custody and charged with this and that. The next lines should read, Officer A, Officer B, and Officer C terminated for negligence of duty. For standard patrol officers "cover fire" should be extremely limited or banned. I understand lack of training and adrenaline might bring missed targets, but if you do not have a sight picture of what is intended destroyed--don't shoot. 

 

A good argument  can be made, that standard patrol should return to the double action  revolver. With more resources dedicated to marksmanship and special teams. If outgunned an officer is to retreat and/or take cover and call special teams. Special teams arrive with snipers and all the military toys, their job to eliminate the threat by whatever methods necessary. Special teams would not negotiate.

 

 

Here’s the thing, where I worked as a cop in central Washington the “sanctuary state” situation had allowed a large number of Sinaloa Cartel and Knight’s Templar Cartel (former Los Zetas) who fought over the meth and pill trade over the I-90 corridor.  These individuals were heavily armed and could/would instantly open fire with fully automatic AK’s.  Later, after the Fast & Furious debacle from Presidents Bush & Obama armed them with additional fully automatic weapons.  This setup ambushes between these factions.  They even ambushed police at different times. These ambushes wouldn’t allow for the revolvers to be feasible, nor would you be able to provide protection because of the fire power differential.

 

This disparity in firepower is why I’m retired at 40.  Six of us were shot in about 18 months.  We had a team from Rampart division of LAPD come up to help train us in deal with this. We started receiving indirect small arms fire from a rolling gun battle a block over as we walked out to our car.  There were more than 300 shell casings collected from that specific gunfight. We could clearly see that the 7.62x51 rounds used had been fired through a belt fed weapon.  The connectors were in the street and the sound of the cycling rate were clear.  Less than an hour into my shift we’d had shots fired all around us and the LAPD officer with me had me return him to the station and he left.

 

The profession of arms was good to me.  Now I just do case reviews as a civilian.  I’m grateful for my time on the job, in the service, and as a contractor.  I’m thankful for the kind words on here, and for people reading my rants.  I only post in here to help.  There’s a lotta good people on this forum, and I’d like to see them carry competently to be able to defend their own.

[Soundline]

19 minutes ago, Dave 240Z said:

Years ago in Palm Beach County, Police were chasing a bad guy on the expressway and shooting at his vehicle. After numerous miles, of that they chased him on city streets. On his way past, he shot a meter maid. He finally crashed, got out of the car and shot himself in the head. They justified the 88 bullets fired by the police. Only 3 hit the man’s car. None hit him.

Well mate, I’ll say this, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to pursuit drive and put rounds on target.  
 

When I was contracting I took a training course on this.  I tried it I fuuuuuuuucked it up.  I’m admittedly no Travis Haley, but with a pistol, as the driver, I didn’t hit a single man sized target on the first day.  As a policeman, we did zero days of training on this.  Absolutely none.  This is something that would take several thousand hours to master if you have a gift for it.  
 

Honestly, I never did it as a cop. I’d rather use a technique to force them off the road if possible.

 

It’s like trying to use these.

[bananahamuck]

I sometimes carry a old colt .32 ACP out to get the mail if facebook chatter puts a bear or cougar  in the neighborhood.. i don't care if it does any good,,, i'm still here,  so those scary bastards must know that i'm a god damn killing machine. 

 

 

..

[Soundline]

6 minutes ago, bananahamuck said:

I sometimes carry a old colt .32 ACP out to get the mail if facebook chatter puts a bear or cougar  in the neighborhood.. i don't care if it does any good,,, i'm still here,  so those scary bastards must know that i'm a god damn killing machine. 
 

I’ve used small caliber handguns to startle off predators.  When it comes to dealing with predators, nothing that works is stupid.

[frankendat]

5 hours ago, Soundline said:

Here’s the thing, where I worked as a cop in central Washington the “sanctuary state” situation had allowed a large number of Sinaloa Cartel and Knight’s Templar Cartel (former Los Zetas) who fought over the meth and pill trade over the I-90 corridor.  These individuals were heavily armed and could/would instantly open fire with fully automatic AK’s.  Later, after the Fast & Furious debacle from Presidents Bush & Obama armed them with additional fully automatic weapons.  This setup ambushes between these factions.  They even ambushed police at different times. These ambushes wouldn’t allow for the revolvers to be feasible, nor would you be able to provide protection because of the fire power differential.

 

This disparity in firepower is why I’m retired at 40.  Six of us were shot in about 18 months.  We had a team from Rampart division of LAPD come up to help train us in deal with this. We started receiving indirect small arms fire from a rolling gun battle a block over as we walked out to our car.  There were more than 300 shell casings collected from that specific gunfight. We could clearly see that the 7.62x51 rounds used had been fired through a belt fed weapon.  The connectors were in the street and the sound of the cycling rate were clear.  Less than an hour into my shift we’d had shots fired all around us and the LAPD officer with me had me return him to the station and he left.

 

The profession of arms was good to me.  Now I just do case reviews as a civilian.  I’m grateful for my time on the job, in the service, and as a contractor.  I’m thankful for the kind words on here, and for people reading my rants.  I only post in here to help.  There’s a lotta good people on this forum, and I’d like to see them carry competently to be able to defend their own.

Sounds like War. Before I respond, would you elaborate on this statement, "(t)hese ambushes wouldn’t allow for the revolvers to be feasible, nor would you be able to provide protection because of the fire power differential."

[bananahamuck]

5 hours ago, Soundline said:

I’ve used small caliber handguns to startle off predators.  When it comes to dealing with predators, nothing that works is stupid.

We live just after a blind corner and box is across road and use headlights to judge cars coming , so I usually only go out to mailbox way after dark.. Most times ,, like 10:30-11 so if something is lurking I’ll most likely be shoving gun into its mouth to scare it away . 
 

 

These pictures were taken 3 houses south of us. Maybe 1/8th mile of brush connecting properties. 

 

 

I can’t access photobucket but there’s a picture with bear print in mud that ( if I remember correctly) measures over 8 inches across 

 

its like a god damn zoo out back. Haha

[jbirds510]

10 hours ago, bananahamuck said:

We live just after a blind corner and box is across road and use headlights to judge cars coming , so I usually only go out to mailbox way after dark.. Most times ,, like 10:30-11 so if something is lurking I’ll most likely be shoving gun into its mouth to scare it away . 
 

 

These pictures were taken 3 houses south of us. Maybe 1/8th mile of brush connecting properties. 

 

 

I can’t access photobucket but there’s a picture with bear print in mud that ( if I remember correctly) measures over 8 inches across 

 

its like a god damn zoo out back. Haha

Stay back kitty.

[Soundline]

11 hours ago, frankendat said:

Sounds like War. Before I respond, would you elaborate on this statement, "(t)hese ambushes wouldn’t allow for the revolvers to be feasible, nor would you be able to provide protection because of the fire power differential."

Sure, the problem we have is that we equipped these groups and in some cases trained them.  There are members of the Templars/Zetas who are ex-Mexican Special Forces who received training from or SF guys.  These cartel guys would be 2 or more to a rig.  Two guys with AK or semi-auto PDW is too much for one guy with a revolver.  When our guys were faced with this they responded by basically blind firing in return.  I can bore you with horror stories about it if you like but they’re all anecdotal evidence.

 

At my department we had one training day a month.  This meant we typically had one single firearms qualification a year.  This is insufficient to develop and maintain the skills needed in a firefight.  The rest of the trainings were legal updates, mandatory HR stuff, investigation techniques, first/aid, dealing with psych patients, and defensive training.
 

This lack of proper training leads people to resort to their fear instincts instead of falling back on their training.  The do shit they saw in movies.  It becomes more Bad Boyz and less John Wick in a hurry.  When you’re out there, alone, no backup for 4+ minutes in a firefight against a determined attacker that picked time, location, and method of attack it’s a bad day.  You’re lucky to survive with a mild limp and a pension. 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, bananahamuck said:

We live just after a blind corner and box is across road and use headlights to judge cars coming , so I usually only go out to mailbox way after dark.. Most times ,, like 10:30-11 so if something is lurking I’ll most likely be shoving gun into its mouth to scare it away . 
 

 

These pictures were taken 3 houses south of us. Maybe 1/8th mile of brush connecting properties. 

 

 

I can’t access photobucket but there’s a picture with bear print in mud that ( if I remember correctly) measures over 8 inches across 

 

its like a god damn zoo out back. Haha

Fuuuuuuuck that.  I’ve hunted those things, and I used a Remington Model 700 .30-06.  I’d take this to check the mail at your place.  

[Soundline]

And.. here’s some P90’s for good measure.  I actually like these.  Very fun to shoot.

[ratpatrol66]

On 3/23/2022 at 6:54 PM, Soundline said:

Well mate, I’ll say this, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to pursuit drive and put rounds on target.  
 

When I was contracting I took a training course on this.  I tried it I fuuuuuuuucked it up.  I’m admittedly no Travis Haley, but with a pistol, as the driver, I didn’t hit a single man sized target on the first day.  As a policeman, we did zero days of training on this.  Absolutely none.  This is something that would take several thousand hours to master if you have a gift for it.  
 

Honestly, I never did it as a cop. I’d rather use a technique to force them off the road if possible.

 

It’s like trying to use these.

Oh hell yeah the brief case gun. H/K Mp5 mod. don't remember the actual model number.

[Soundline]

14 hours ago, ratpatrol66 said:

Oh hell yeah the brief case gun. H/K Mp5 mod. don't remember the actual model number.

It’s the MP5K.  You ever shoot one Ratpatrol?  It brings “spray and pray” into sharp focus.  I only fired one at a private range once and I was good. 
 

It’s fun to shoot, but not for me.

 

I prefer these.

[Soundline]

[ratpatrol66]

7 hours ago, Soundline said:

It’s the MP5K.  You ever shoot one Ratpatrol?  It brings “spray and pray” into sharp focus.  I only fired one at a private range once and I was good. 
 

 

 

A good friend had a regular MP5. I was badass!!! He wanted to get one of these briefcase guns. I really wondered what he was up to sometimes.

[Soundline]

I’ve really enjoyed the MP5 and clones I’ve used.  The PTR is the “best” of the clones that I’ve used.  HK has taken care of me over the years.  My sister, who also worked for the government until her death, carried a USP Compact 9mm.  The very first handgun I purchased was a USP 40 full-frame.  
 

I was disappointed the AF didn’t adopt the HK XM8 as our primary weapon system.

[frankendat]

7 hours ago, Soundline said:

I’ve really enjoyed the MP5 and clones I’ve used.  The PTR is the “best” of the clones that I’ve used.  HK has taken care of me over the years.  My sister, who also worked for the government until her death, carried a USP Compact 9mm.  The very first handgun I purchased was a USP 40 full-frame.  
 

I was disappointed the AF didn’t adopt the HK XM8 as our primary weapon system.

A bit "Buck Roger-esy" They must popular in Great Britain, I frequently see them in British television, thought they were AR's with funky furniture, so folks across the pond feel special.

  I have no experience with the HKXM8, I don't even know a guy, who knows a guy. But, I do know a guy with one of, what is pasted below. Built on a 1911 frame, either .45 ACP or .460 Rowland. Why? Additional power from the longer barrel, additional stability from 3 points of contact, same awesome 1911 trigger as found on your pistol, collapsible stock, same as found on your AR platforms. Even before you shoot it, you are familiar with it. The one in the picture just has a "barrel shroud", but with a tax stamp/permit it is ready to be suppressed. Standard .45 230gr hard ball is below the speed of sound, making the rifle prime for suppression.

[jbirds510]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:02 PM, Soundline said:

Sure, the problem we have is that we equipped these groups and in some cases trained them.  There are members of the Templars/Zetas who are ex-Mexican Special Forces who received training from or SF guys.  These cartel guys would be 2 or more to a rig.  Two guys with AK or semi-auto PDW is too much for one guy with a revolver.  When our guys were faced with this they responded by basically blind firing in return.  I can bore you with horror stories about it if you like but they’re all anecdotal evidence.

 

At my department we had one training day a month.  This meant we typically had one single firearms qualification a year.  This is insufficient to develop and maintain the skills needed in a firefight.  The rest of the trainings were legal updates, mandatory HR stuff, investigation techniques, first/aid, dealing with psych patients, and defensive training.
 

This lack of proper training leads people to resort to their fear instincts instead of falling back on their training.  The do shit they saw in movies.  It becomes more Bad Boyz and less John Wick in a hurry.  When you’re out there, alone, no backup for 4+ minutes in a firefight against a determined attacker that picked time, location, and method of attack it’s a bad day.  You’re lucky to survive with a mild limp and a pension. 

 

 

 

Fuuuuuuuck that.  I’ve hunted those things, and I used a Remington Model 700 .30-06.  I’d take this to check the mail at your place.  

Has always blown me away, the tech im familiar with is now nearly 30 years old and by all comparable standards is Surgical compared to what LEO are equipt with. For example real time satellite tracking, and Identification. Why hasnt this tech, that is payed for by tax payers only used when its overseas where acquisition of resources is the goal..public safety seems to be such a low priority in comparison and because of it hero's and innocents suffer and die. If they do manage to get arrested, they get right out even tho the charges are often heinous. Theres NO reason cops should ever be put in that position to begin with.  

[datzenmike]

If you killed all the bad guys and caught all the rest, funds would dry up. Law enforcement want a certain level of crime, a certain level of fear in the public, or they are out of a job.