guns

[ratpatrol66]

This was my response to the video below. The Sandyhook comment got me. I correspond with two guys on a Pontiac forum who had kids in the school.

 

Hey John Stewart and the rest of anti gun people. Sandyhook would not have happened if the mother who bought the gun and was responsible and it locked up. So here is a different angle for you to rap your head around. There is the black market of guns. You can take away the guns from every guy or gal who bought them legally. You sure as hell can't track every black market gun and this is where you get real stupid. I worked with a guy who had a domestic violence charge against him and owned a gun illegally I called the police, and his pussy posse told me snitches get stitches. Fuck the criminal minded people who carry out these crimes. Anti gun people are living in a Willy Wonka land, good luck protecting yourselves.

 

 

[Fat510]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:21 PM, datsunfreak said:

 

Personally, I am looking for one thing that doesn't jibe with LEO type pistols, and that is a single stack magazine. Those are all excellent options for that particular task, just not me. 

 

I will definitely be looking for something that plays nice with +P ammunition. Thank you for the info! 👍

 

 

 

 

Check out some CZs. Full metal, hammer, g17 and 19 length barrel. Double stack mags though

 

I have a P01, it carries well, only downside is how heavy it is. Definitely different that the Shield 9mm I switched from lol

Edited January 8, 2022 by Fat510

[datsunfreak]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:57 PM, Fat510 said:

Check out some CZs. Full metal, hammer, g17 and 19 length barrel. Double stack mags though

 

I have a P01, it carries well, only downside is how heavy it is. Definitely different that the Shield 9mm I switched from lol

 

I have looked at a few, but the thickness of double stack mags and the increase in weight is just not what I want. If it's not comfortable to carry, I'm not going to carry it as often...

 

I think the real solution (for me) is just to go back to a mid-sized 1911, in either .40 or ,45. Yeah, it's less ammo, but it would be comfortable to carry a second mag if need be. 

 

And I have been told by a few former officers that it's not about how many rounds it holds, since seldom would you need to fire it more than once or twice. Assuming you are a decent shot. 😁

 

One told me, "if I am ever in a situation where I'd need to reload, or use 17 rounds, shit has gone so sideways I am probably not making it out of there anyway". 

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[frankendat]

3 hours ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Those jumping about with automatics and a finger on the trigger, will sort themselves out

 

[frankendat]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:44 AM, datsunfreak said:

 

I have looked at a few, but the thickness of double stack mags and the increase in weight is just not what I want. If it's not comfortable to carry, I'm not going to carry it as often...

 

I think the real solution (for me) is just to go back to a mid-sized 1911, in either .40 or ,45. Yeah, it's less ammo, but it would be comfortable to carry a second mag if need be. 

 

And I have been told by a few former officers that it's not about how many rounds it holds, since seldom would you need to fire it more than once or twice. Assuming you are a decent shot. 😁

 

One told me, "if I am ever in a situation where I'd need to reload, or use 17 rounds, shit has gone so sideways I am probably not making it out of there anyway". 

I feel the same even with a revolver. Unless facing a coordinated multi-shooter attack, a single action .45 with 5 (carried on an empty chamber) is plenty. If society degrades into gang warfare or government sanctioned military actions against citizenry, I will reassess.

[sick620]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:44 AM, datsunfreak said:

 

I have looked at a few, but the thickness of double stack mags and the increase in weight is just not what I want. If it's not comfortable to carry, I'm not going to carry it as often...

 

I think the real solution (for me) is just to go back to a mid-sized 1911, in either .40 or ,45. Yeah, it's less ammo, but it would be comfortable to carry a second mag if need be. 

 

And I have been told by a few former officers that it's not about how many rounds it holds, since seldom would you need to fire it more than once or twice. Assuming you are a decent shot. 😁

 

One told me, "if I am ever in a situation where I'd need to reload, or use 17 rounds, shit has gone so sideways I am probably not making it out of there anyway". 

I just think that 9mm, 40, and 45 are all so close ballistically on a human target in a self defense roll that you are better to go with the 9mm and have the extra round or two just in case… ammo is also cheaper (usually, Covid messed that up but it’ll still always have more supply than the other calibers) so you’ll be better practiced in a self defense roll… now if you step up to a real hard hitting caliber like 10mm or 357 magnum then I could maybe favor the mentality of giving up round capacity thinking you’ll only need a round or two in a self defense situation, because your rounds you are down you will have made up for in firepower… in my personal firearm philosophy 9mm is the go to, 9mm handguns conceal the best I rotate between a single stack in the pocket, or a double stack in the wasteband appendix carry, always one in the chamber… good quality hollow points… if I am going in the backwoods or something, or otherwise just want to open carry, either Full size Glock in 10mm, or if just around town full size Glock in 9mm with lots of extra 33 rounds mags in vehicles and in my home.. 

 

to me going .40 and .45 instead of 9mm, is like going to the lot and choosing a v6 Dodge Charger… and expecting it to be so much faster than a turbo 4cylinder car like a focus ST… focus st would have been faster with more parts available… now 10mm is like a ford raptor… more utility than both the others (you can hunt grizzly bears with em) and it still does everything the others do… but costs more to run (gas/ammo) and maybe a little overkill for the daily commute (harder to park/conceal) 

 

now if you already have a .40 or .45 than everything I said goes out the window, both are close enough to the 9mm in performance I say just run what you got… stock ammo and practice, that’s what’s most important.

 

As far as .380 vs 9mm no contest .380 is barely suitable for self defense… I can say this though, I’ve worked jobs where I would leave my single stack 9mm at home or in my car because it printed to much in dress pants and I could not afford being seen carrying at work… eventually I didn’t feel comfortable carrying nothing at all and got myself a LCP in .380… no one was the wiser… a .22 in your pocket when you need it is better than a .50 cal in your glove box, carry the biggest thing you can get away with in your personal situation… 

[sick620]

Mr and mrs plate carriers… and a few ar’s …. Sadly lost in a boating accident 😉

[datsunfreak]

7 hours ago, frankendat said:

I feel the same even with a revolver. Unless facing a coordinated multi-shooter attack, a single action .45 with 5 (carried on an empty chamber) is plenty. If society degrades into gang warfare or government sanctioned military actions against citizenry, I will reassess.

 

6 hours ago, sick620 said:

now if you step up to a real hard hitting caliber like 10mm or 357 magnum then I could maybe favor the mentality of giving up round capacity thinking you’ll only need a round or two in a self defense situation, because your rounds you are down you will have made up for in firepower…

 

I have recently considered the revolver option. Less rounds but more firepower, and not having to carry it cocked. 

 

I have a friend who carries a Taurus Judge (uses .45 Colt or .410 shotgun shells) loaded in a specific "escalation" order (1 bird shot, 2 buck shot, 2 .45 hollow points) 

[jbirds510]

I prefer j frames for concealed. 

Ruger LCR

[sick620]

3 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

 

I have recently considered the revolver option. Less rounds but more firepower, and not having to carry it cocked. 

 

I have a friend who carries a Taurus Judge (uses .45 Colt or .410 shotgun shells) loaded in a specific "escalation" order (1 bird shot, 2 buck shot, 2 .45 hollow points) 

I like the revolver as long as 357magnum or bigger… not a big fan of the escalation order, thought about doing this In home defense shotguns… if I’m drawing a gun my life or someone near to me is in grave danger and that’s why the gun is coming out, I’m pulling it out to end a threat fast and effectively. 
 

and I wouldn’t be worried about carrying a semi auto handgun live with one in the chamber, a good holster that blocks the trigger negates any problems that could arise. I’ve been carrying this way for a long time and haven’t shot my junk off yet 😂 

[datsunfreak]

2 hours ago, sick620 said:

I wouldn’t be worried about carrying a semi auto handgun live with one in the chamber

 

I'm not super worried about it, as the double safety on a 1911 should prevent any issues. One of my gun nut friends just always give me shit about carrying this way and I was at least considering other options. My current daily carry is DAO so it has not been an issue, just miss carrying a 1911. I really like those guns...  😁

[sick620]

25 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

 

I'm not super worried about it, as the double safety on a 1911 should prevent any issues. One of my gun nut friends just always give me shit about carrying this way and I was at least considering other options. My current daily carry is DAO so it has not been an issue, just miss carrying a 1911. I really like those guns...  😁

Yeah I’ve always wanted a 1911… I don’t even carry guns with safeties. I’m more likely to die driving a Datsun haha 

[frankendat]

3 hours ago, sick620 said:

I like the revolver as long as 357magnum or bigger… not a big fan of the escalation order, thought about doing this In home defense shotguns… if I’m drawing a gun my life or someone near to me is in grave danger and that’s why the gun is coming out, I’m pulling it out to end a threat fast and effectively. 
 

and I wouldn’t be worried about carrying a semi auto handgun live with one in the chamber, a good holster that blocks the trigger negates any problems that could arise. I’ve been carrying this way for a long time and haven’t shot my junk off yet 😂 

An Idahoan who carries, damn fine to make your acquaintance. I believe your interpretation of the performance of calibers mentioned is incorrect, but any discussion on, which is "better" must first agree on the preferred criteria e.g. Elmer Keith's knock down power formula vs a formula more velocity dependent, the importance of bullet weight or the importance of penetration.  At the end of the day the facts remain the facts, but the interpretation and/or preference attached to different facts, leads to different conclusions. I side with Keith--"a bullet loses velocity from the moment it leaves the barrel, but it doesn't lose weight."

And all that is differences on facts, we haven't even started to get into loosely justifiable beliefs, barely justifiable opinions, unverifiable personal experiences and obvious bullshit a.k.a. shit found on the internet (I recently read an internet article that claimed the 9mm was better suppressed than a .45 ACP. The foolishness of that is hard to grasp. Standard everyday .45 ACP FMJ is subsonic.) 

Even with all the above, I agree the .357 is an excellent revolver for defense. It will penetrate better than a .45 ACP (which isn't always positive in home defense) and it can fire cheaper/less recoil/less money .38's. Start someone off with .38's in a .357 and if they take to it and practice, move up to a .357. If you start out with a .38 snubby for concealed carry (not a bad choice, especially for a smaller person, a first carry or need for a high level of conceal ability) there is no room to grow. Finally, second only to single action revolvers , double action revolvers are very safe: To fire involves deliberate action. Revolvers do not "go off" regardless of what Baldwin claims.

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, datsunfreak said:

 

I'm not super worried about it, as the double safety on a 1911 should prevent any issues. One of my gun nut friends just always give me shit about carrying this way and I was at least considering other options. My current daily carry is DAO so it has not been an issue, just miss carrying a 1911. I really like those guns...  😁

 

41 minutes ago, sick620 said:

Yeah I’ve always wanted a 1911… I don’t even carry guns with safeties. I’m more likely to die driving a Datsun haha 

Now we are on the right track. Datsunfreak, there is a device called an autocock (I think that is the correct name we call it Black Magic) Anyway, you load and chamber like normal, then pull the trigger and gently lower the hammer, engage the thumb safety and carry (there is a firing pin interrupter that prevents fire if the lowered hammer is struck). When the the thumb safety is released, the hammer snaps back and is ready to fire. My father won't install one for me because he says it is just one more thing to potentially fail. My WWII 1911 killed Nazi's effectively without one and it doesn't need one now. He advocates cocked and locked in a holster with a hammer strap. 100% safe. I am not 1/100th of the gunsmith of my father and won't risk self installin it only for the "Cool" factor.

I could write pages about the awesomeness of the 1911 and the 1911 .45 but most gun people know at least one ".45 guy"

 

Sick20 my Dad builds one or two .45's a year and is one of the top gunsmiths in the United States, but he is very old and very slow.

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, sick620 said:

Yeah I’ve always wanted a 1911… I don’t even carry guns with safeties. I’m more likely to die driving a Datsun haha 

One more tidbit, it is expensive but my father offers 1911 45's with 1911 .460 Rowland interchangeable slides both uppers custom machined and target verified accurate. You mentioned the 10mm for a grizzly getter  and even with love of the 45 ACP, I must admit, it is light for bear. In fact, with superior penetration even the .357 could be argued a better bear gun. However, the 460 Rowland has the same ballistics of a .45 LC (BlackHawk for the hotter loads not the lighter frame Peacemaker) and proven, effective bear stoppers. So, in the city for soft skinned bipeds, a fine tuned 1911 45 and in the wilderness a fine tuned 1911 .460 Rowland on the same frame

[sick620]

2 hours ago, frankendat said:

One more tidbit, it is expensive but my father offers 1911 45's with 1911 .460 Rowland interchangeable slides both uppers custom machined and target verified accurate. You mentioned the 10mm for a grizzly getter  and even with love of the 45 ACP, I must admit, it is light for bear. In fact, with superior penetration even the .357 could be argued a better bear gun. However, the 460 Rowland has the same ballistics of a .45 LC (BlackHawk for the hotter loads not the lighter frame Peacemaker) and proven, effective bear stoppers. So, in the city for soft skinned bipeds, a fine tuned 1911 45 and in the wilderness a fine tuned 1911 .460 Rowland on the same frame

 

460 rowland is a neat caliber. If I get a 1911 it would probably just be in the .45 caliber standard fare. I only want one for the cool/fun factor... not necessarily to carry. Just to show friends and take out to shoot... I like the glock 20 and 10mm for this application.. (backwoods bear country gun) Lighter weight than full metal guns, caliber isn't the most powerful etc but round capacity is great and ballistics are adequate, ammo isn't too prohibitive to practice with and you can always practice with the smaller glocks that still have the same manual of arms and general form factor... I am not looking to hunt bears with a handgun though I see how my post could lead you to believe that... Just protect myself and family from possible encounter. If I was hunting a bear I'd undoubtedly use a rife.... My opinions may be a tad biased as I'm from the new school and I'm more into and familiar with the polymer guns and striker fire actions. I think the internal safeties built into these newer polymer handguns are sufficient if you just practice general firearm safety and use a good holster... Older style designs DA SA etc I would potentially feel less safe carrying everyday with one in the pipe... But I wouldn't carry one of those pistols daily (maybe once in a great while because I do Like the older style guns for fun/cool factor) ...

 

I love datsuns and I love driving them from time to time, even commuting in them once in a while... But a modern sedan or pickup does everything they do better and more comfortably. Safety is much better etc.... I won't argue which is cooler... obviously the datsun... But practicality trumps that most days... 

 

So with guns a want something with good round count, sufficient ballistics, lightweight, reliable, and with lots of parts available so I chose glocks.. Glock 19 around town for my personal protection is kinda like a honda civic dependable and economical... Glock 20 in the backwoods is kinda like f150 dependable, proven, and just rugged enough for task at hand... Would I rather drive a 69 camaro somedays YES but it does not do anything as good as the civic other than look and sound better...

Would I rather take out a f350 diesel with 6inch lift? yes but for my intended purpose it would be overkill... I have some obscure calibers and think they are cool. and would love more classic type guns for the cool factor.. but will never use them as a daily driver if that makes sense... something like a 1911 in 460 rowland could be cool if I was wanting a dedicated big game hunting handgun.. 

 

that's cool you are in boise you know there are quite a few ratsun guys here that still get together, none of which ever get on ratsun anymore. 

[sick620]

19 hours ago, frankendat said:

I feel the same even with a revolver. Unless facing a coordinated multi-shooter attack, a single action .45 with 5 (carried on an empty chamber) is plenty. If society degrades into gang warfare or government sanctioned military actions against citizenry, I will reassess.

I suppose I can agree with this except I am maybe a bit more of a conspiracy theorist... I alway think these things are possible at any moment.. Also I would hate to get in a shootout with some crackhead from garden city with his hipoint that holds more rounds than my revolver.. Or worse his escort girlfriend runs to his trunk and grabs the maverick 88... You just never know.. better to be prepared. 7+1 is my carry minimum... 10+1 is more of a ideal minimum... 15+1 is most days... with spare mag on me and more in vehicle.. 

 

finally I want to say it is just great to know that people are carrying anything... I think every man should carry a gun and a knife. Regardless of model or caliber... I am also not 100% against doing things because it is nostalgic or cool... I carry a randall made model 3 7inch knife in a leather sheath everyday while not at work... thats a $1000 fixed blade knife, its large and too much for most tasks.. I'd be better served carrying a $10 walmart folding knife and  I know that, I just carry it because a friend gave it to me and because I want to. Its handmade and beautiful and I love it....  I'll respect anyone that at least carries something.. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by sick620

[frankendat]

We agree on the most important. All the rest, can make for passionate conversation, but matters not. I am in direct opposition with military fundamentals, especially the focus on rounds downrange, over skilled marksmanship. When I was enlisted the M16 was not an accurate weapon and full auto wasted ammo. But, over the last few decades, I admit they have improved much and diversified the platform and accessories enough, where even I can kit up one to like.

 

I am also in conflict with Hollywood. I only pull if in fear for life and only pull to fire. I will not pull and talk, I will not pull and yell stop or whatever. I will be able to confirm the impact of  every of every shot. The 1911 and cocked single action have the best handgun triggers and are accurate. Six or Five for the peacemaker, correlates to five or six dead, eight for the 1911 (I carry cocked and locked)If there are more than six people(8 for the 1911) that want me dead, so much so, they will continue the aggression, as their comrades fall around them. I admire their conviction and will meet them in hell.

 

Make sure to carry your knives in the open. It used to be a knife under 3 or was it 3.5 was legal. Anyway a while back a fellow Idahoan was stopped and arrested for carrying a concealed knife. The man had a CCW permit, but was found guilty. The court found that the CC W only applies to firearms. Sad but  True.

 

 

[sick620]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

We agree on the most important. All the rest, can make for passionate conversation, but matters not. I am in direct opposition with military fundamentals, especially the focus on rounds downrange, over skilled marksmanship. When I was enlisted the M16 was not an accurate weapon and full auto wasted ammo. But, over the last few decades, I admit they have improved much and diversified the platform and accessories enough, where even I can kit up one to like.

 

I am also in conflict with Hollywood. I only pull if in fear for life and only pull to fire. I will not pull and talk, I will not pull and yell stop or whatever. I will be able to confirm the impact of  every of every shot. The 1911 and cocked single action have the best handgun triggers and are accurate. Six or Five for the peacemaker, correlates to five or six dead, eight for the 1911 (I carry cocked and locked)If there are more than six people(8 for the 1911) that want me dead, so much so, they will continue the aggression, as their comrades fall around them. I admire their conviction and will meet them in hell.

 

Make sure to carry your knives in the open. It used to be a knife under 3 or was it 3.5 was legal. Anyway a while back a fellow Idahoan was stopped and arrested for carrying a concealed knife. The man had a CCW permit, but was found guilty. The court found that the CC W only applies to firearms. Sad but  True.

 

 

 

I respect your opinion, I do not think it to be a bad one at all... I think training is important and training to use a handgun only when needing to stop a threat is also important. Also thinking shots through such as what is behind target etc... I just want more ammo in an intermediate caliber and in my mind the best one of those is and probably always will be 9mm... I agree 1911's have the best triggers, especially modified, but for my use I just want the "honda civic trigger" good enough from the factory but nothing special.. Especially because I carry striker fired ready to roll with one in the chamber with no safety... too good of a trigger might not be the safest thing... Plus I shy away from major modification to carry guns, I don't want that used against me in court if I need to defend myself... I don't think we are that far off on view, you like probably like 5rounds minimum, and I like 8.. You like the .45 I like the 9mm... I'm sure both will work fine in most situations.....

 

I had never heard of this.. I do only carry the big knife open on the belt.. I wonder if there is a length of blade you are able to carry concealed legally... Google says 6" in idaho, 2.5inches in schools and on buses, but the sites don't seem all that legitimate.. I'll have to ask around... 

[Soundline]

The rules for knives often change city to city as well.  The city I was a cop in had special laws written by utter morons for non-firearm “weapons”.

 

I’d like to weigh in on the topic of caliber.  I can cite specific examples of .22 LR being used to end human life using cheap lead loads (such as several of the Mossad Operation Wrath of God assassinations of Black September members).  I can also cite specific examples of a .50 BMG being capable of eliminating threats. (Apr 2004 US Marine Steve Reichert killed three insurgents with a single round).

 

I have spent a considerable amount of time doing ballistic testing for my previous job.  I dialed in caliber, grain weight, metallurgy, barrel length, powder type, and carry method for very specific situations.  These situations typically centered around threat types for close personnel protection security jobs.  
 

Here’s the thing, one of the most common assassins weapons is a snub nosed .38 special.  Typically 5 or 6 shot.  These are lethal weapons.  However the Röhm RG-14 .22 LR revolver used on President Regan in 1981 was very nearly fatal, and did eventually cause the death of James Brady.  Brady’s 2014 death was ruled a homicide due to his cause of death, a 33 year delay.

 

As far as 9mm v. 45 ACP, depends on the anticipated threat, body mechanics, your physical size, and your level of training.  
My suggestion for concealed carry ammunition is:

 

Speer Gold Dot 9mm Jacketed Hollow Point 124 grain +P (this designation means it’s a high pressure accelerant type powder).  

Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP Jacketed Hollow Point 200 gr +P

 

—-> please make sure your firearm can handle +P rounds. 

 

These are one of the most commonly utilized duty rounds by higher funded police departments.  This means they’re easier to defend using on an aggressor in court because of previous arguments in the Speer Gold Dot’s favor.  
 

Keep in mind either will kill human type threats. The 9mm has proven itself capable in the Global War on Terror and many others.  The .45 did the same in WW1, WW2, and others.  
 

You train with it, you carry it, it fits you, then you do you.  If I’m in a church and some fucking shit whistle walks in there thinking he’s gonna kill my fellow worshippers… then get on line. I’ll go shoulder to shoulder with someone carrying a Gold Desert Eagle .50 AR, granny with her .22 mag revolver, Rick with his Python, and even Todd with his .380 Hi-Point.  

 

 

[jagman]

Up until this year I have had a .44 black powder pistol in my truck when I make deliveries.  I finally got a concealed carry permit this year but the black powder

pistols where cumbersome to carry.  I looked at the offerings at our local gun store and bought a glock .380 for the concealed carry.  The larger caliber glocks 

don't fit in the palm of my hand and are too visible under my shirt or jacket and don't fit in my front pants pocket.  I am a bit of a novice when it comes to the more modern weapons so this thread is very interesting to me.

[datsunfreak]

15 hours ago, frankendat said:

double action revolvers are very safe: To fire involves deliberate action. Revolvers do not "go off" regardless of what Baldwin claims.

 

Truthfully, no guns do. I hate Hollywood and their whole "if I drop my gun on the floor it's gonna go off and shoot someone". I think this is bullshit. I don't believe a well-built and well maintained firearm is ever just going to "go off". 

 

15 hours ago, frankendat said:

He advocates cocked and locked in a holster with a hammer strap. 100% safe.

 

Not exactly 100% sure I know what a "hammer strap" is, but if it is what I think it is, I do not like it. Anything that slows down (or overcomplicates) your draw seems bad, to me.

 

When I have carried a 1911 it was cocked with the thumb safety on. And I practiced religiously drawing from a holster and flipping the safety with my thumb in one smooth motion. Enough so that I do it now with every pistol without even thinking about it. 

 

Problem I have with my current carry (Bersa Thunder .380) is the thumb safety is too shirt/stiff. A 1911 (for me) is the most ergonomically designed pistol I have owned. 

 

And I honestly have no idea why I don't own one currently...  

 

Fine, you convinced me. I'm gonna buy another 1911. Maybe two...  😄

[jbirds510]

14 hours ago, sick620 said:

I suppose I can agree with this except I am maybe a bit more of a conspiracy theorist... I alway think these things are possible at any moment.. Also I would hate to get in a shootout with some crackhead from garden city with his hipoint that holds more rounds than my revolver.. Or worse his escort girlfriend runs to his trunk and grabs the maverick 88... You just never know.. better to be prepared. 7+1 is my carry minimum... 10+1 is more of a ideal minimum... 15+1 is most days... with spare mag on me and more in vehicle.. 

 

finally I want to say it is just great to know that people are carrying anything... I think every man should carry a gun and a knife. Regardless of model or caliber... I am also not 100% against doing things because it is nostalgic or cool... I carry a randall made model 3 7inch knife in a leather sheath everyday while not at work... thats a $1000 fixed blade knife, its large and too much for most tasks.. I'd be better served carrying a $10 walmart folding knife and  I know that, I just carry it because a friend gave it to me and because I want to. Its handmade and beautiful and I love it....  I'll respect anyone that at least carries something.. 

I don't know if you've been in the military or served in a war but I can tell you from experience that blocking out the "noise",one calm and collected discharge is more effective than some spun out druggy with no composition or discipline will ever be regardless of their capacity, unless you are close enough they couldn't miss if they tried, in which case studies have proven (within 3') a knife kill is faster than a draw and fire. 

Like you said its good to know people are carrying. I feel so much more comfortable in areas where honest people are armed.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2019/06/knife-vs-gun/

[sick620]

1 hour ago, jbirds510 said:

I don't know if you've been in the military or served in a war but I can tell you from experience that blocking out the "noise",one calm and collected discharge is more effective than some spun out druggy with no composition or discipline will ever be regardless of their capacity, unless you are close enough they couldn't miss if they tried, in which case studies have proven (within 3') a knife kill is faster than a draw and fire. 

Like you said its good to know people are carrying. I feel so much more comfortable in areas where honest people are armed.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2019/06/knife-vs-gun/

I have a friend and we’ve ran a test in his tattoo shop where one of us sits in his waiting room carrying our concealed gun and the other walks in the shop carrying a knife in pocket. After walking in that person becomes an aggressor and charges person sitting and draws the knife.. never has anyone we have tried this test on been able to draw their gun before being pretend stabbed to death… I also understand that most defensive shootings happen 2feet 2 rounds 2 seconds, so capacity isn’t all that important.. if someone starts shooting at me first and I can’t draw my weapon very fast and need to duck behind some cover and now I’m in some sort of shootout, I want to be up gunned with a reasonable amount of ammo…active shooters are also a current threat and if you shot once or twice, someone else returned fire in your direction once or twice , it would be very possible you would run out of ammo quickly… better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it ….