My 1971 521

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Starter solenoid gone bad?

[datzenmike]

If click, click, click varoom. Could be low start signal which is common on old Datsuns. My '78 620 and my '76 710 both needed a hot start relay. Just old and small gauge wiring and the fact that the power from the battery travels about 7 meters (almost 23 feet to get to the starter) and numerous harness connections. My 620 start signal read about 7v at the solenoid.  

[banzai510(hainz)]

my yellow 510 did this when I owned it

I believe the switch was getting old. But sold the car Im sure a HOT START relay will fix this

 

 

 

 

 

I dont use a fuse myself. and I put the positive at the starter lug (30)to hide it better than at top of battery

[thisismatt]

Yeah, I'd lean towards ignition switch. If I ever work on my truck it's going to get a lot of relays including one on the start circuit. Too much current through the ignition switch and turn signal...

[datzenmike]

It's designed to handle starts and passes power to half the fuses in the fuse box. It's cheaper and easier to put a hot start relay in.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

A 50+ year old ignition switch could be dirty or have worn/broken contacts. So yeah, that's not unlikely the cause.

 

A dirty solenoid, like one that has been saturated with oil for many years will have different symptoms from a solenoid with bad contacts. It may short when excited, or it may do nothing, while a broken or worn solenoid may click-click. The lights on the dash dimming while he's trying to crank lead me to think the solenoid is gummy or going to ground.

[d.p]

Yeah a couple turns/clicks and it starts.  But it seems real sluggish in trying to start it initially.   

 

Idk maybe it was just because the truck has been sitting for so long but only noticed it because I just started driving it again.  But it never acted this way prior when sitting for a long time.  For instance, today I started it (tender light is green) and it started first try but it was slow, it was like turn key >>>>>> slowly turning over  >>>> turned over and running.  Its almost like its taking a while for the power from the battery to get everything going.  This is different than what usually happens when I try to start it in the past without driving it much.  Then I would have to pump the gas pedal, turn the key, pump the gas pedal, turn the key until finally it gets enough gas/whatever to start running and then it usually dies when I back it out and have to do it again.      

 

Starter is newish I think?  I don't remember if I bought a new one when I swapped the drivetrain.  I don't think I did because I was going to buy the Troy Ermish one when this my reman'd one shit the bed.  Where is the starter relay in these fuckers?  And I can put a relay in to see if it helps.  Should I just take the ignition switch out and clean the contacts? 

 

Ill get one of these bad boys and go to tizzy on it:  https://tinyurl.com/2p9yfwv2

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by d.p

[banzai510(hainz)]

I dont think the Troy Ermish starters work in a 521 cause the STARTER MOTOR will hit the frame rail. Al I ever see them is in the 510. But maybe Bigtanker knows cause I think he said he might have had one.  I have a 280zx starter but I alwasys thought the staock 510 521 ones were fine. I cant tell the different in power. But once thry all have been rebuilt 10times they dont seem to last from the Schucks O rileys rebuild. Gear reduction or not.

 

all carbed cars/trucks if sit too long he gas drains of evaporates out where you got to get the gas up thru the filter to the carb. So pumping takes a few trys.

My 521 It had click click issues a while back and put a starter in there and worked good for a week then happened again then I put a Ford Starting selinoid in there. Looks Hoky not as good as the black box light relay but it worked.

 

One way to see if this is the proplem is just take a wire from the +side battery and hit the selinoid tab on the starter and see if it cranks good. Make sure in neutral.

 

here is the TroyErmish starter so The motor part hits the frame on a 521 I believe. I think they addasutable to rotate but then the battery is on battom side harder to get to.

Edited February 23, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, d.p said:

Yeah a couple turns/clicks and it starts.  But it seems real sluggish in trying to start it initially.   

 

Idk maybe it was just because the truck has been sitting for so long but only noticed it because I just started driving it again.  But it never acted this way prior when sitting for a long time.  For instance, today I started it (tender light is green) and it started first try but it was slow, it was like turn key >>>>>> slowly turning over  >>>> turned over and running.  Its almost like its taking a while for the power from the battery to get everything going.  This is different than what usually happens when I try to start it in the past without driving it much.  Then I would have to pump the gas pedal, turn the key, pump the gas pedal, turn the key until finally it gets enough gas/whatever to start running and then it usually dies when I back it out and have to do it again.      

 

Starter is newish I think?  I don't remember if I bought a new one when I swapped the drivetrain.  I don't think I did because I was going to buy the Troy Ermish one when this my reman'd one shit the bed.  Where is the starter relay in these fuckers?  And I can put a relay in to see if it helps.  Should I just take the ignition switch out and clean the contacts? 

 

Ill get one of these bad boys and go to tizzy on it:  https://tinyurl.com/2p9yfwv2

 

 

 

Use booster cables to a known good charged battery to eliminate your 'battery' as the cause of the slow turning of the starter. Your battery may be the problem and a new starter won't fix this.

[mrbigtanker]

5 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

I dont think the Troy Ermish starters work in a 521 cause the selinoid will hit the frame rail. Al I ever see them is in the 510. But maybe Bigtanker knows cause I think he said he might have had one.  I have a 280zx starter but I alwasys thought the staock 510 521 ones were fine. I cant tell the different in power. But once thry all have been rebuilt 10times they dont seem to last from the Schucks O rileys rebuild. Gear reduction or not.

 

all carbed cars/trucks if sit too long he gas drains of evaporates out where you got to get the gas up thru the filter to the carb. So pumping takes a few trys.

My 521 It had click click issues a while back and put a starter in there and worked good for a week then happened again then I put a Ford Starting selinoid in there. Looks Hoky not as good as the black box light relay but it worked.

 

One way to see if this is the proplem is just take a wire from the +side battery and hit the selinoid tab on the starter and see if it cranks good. Make sure in neutral.

 

here is the TroyErmish starter so The motor part hits the frame on a 521 I believe. I think they addasutable to rotate but then the battery is on battom side harder to get to.

That is a great starter, I have that in all my cars and my hundred thousand dollar truck as well. It fits all the trucks no problem. Worth every penny.

[d.p]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Use booster cables to a known good charged battery to eliminate your 'battery' as the cause of the slow turning of the starter. Your battery may be the problem and a new starter won't fix this.

I’ll try to jump it from the battery to the starter and see what it does. And Mike you are saying to jump my truck from my car and see if the problem persists?  I’ll probably just buy that ermish starter and if my buddy every buys this fucker he will get it. 
 

I’ve learned that carb engines take a little work to get started after sitting.

[banzai510(hainz)]

11 hours ago, d.p said:

I’ll probably just buy that ermish starter and if my buddy every buys this fucker he will get it. 

Better ask Troy if it fits a 521. Big Tanker says it fits Like to see photos if possible

 

I noticed the stock datsun starters have 9 teeth and these ones have 7 I believe as I have one myself in a box.(HI Torq Brand if I remember right. I was worried if it would eat up the flywheels. But If BIg Tanker says they Ok. I guess Ill run mine when my current one goes bad in like 25years as I dont drive the cars anymore.  These use the Denso style selinoids which I think is better than the Hitachi set up

Edited February 23, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The Ermish starter should be clockable so you can rotate the solenoid to clear the frame.

[datzenmike]

Get a gear reduction starter for a 280zx or 810/Maxima. Both are L series six cylinders and the starter plenty powerful.

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Get a gear reduction starter for a 280zx

Be honest I dont think they that great. Even my Nissan brander dealer on didnt last too long(it was a rebuild but never as good as a orginal.

[d.p]

@banzai510(hainz) This is how yours is wired?

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Yup that is perfect!!!!!!!!! Ignition switch(orginal wire that was on starter selinoid) 85   ground 86

 

30/87 is power from battery

 

 

its the same as the one I posted earlier on here but just get it at the starter lug  so its hidden and lower in the engine bay ti hide it

 

 

 

Now if its hard to turn the motor over I would alsways ck the lugs to make sure not cracked and motor is timed. I seen where its off a tooth and hard to start also. Not that this is your proplem . This solves weak key switch low volatge not triggering the selinoid good enuff

Edited February 23, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[d.p]

Cool

 

I got a 4 terminal 40AMP bosch relay that has 85 86 87 and 30.  So like this with terminal numbers noted?

 

 

[mrbigtanker]

11 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

Better ask Troy if it fits a 521. Big Tanker says it fits Like to see photos if possible

 

I noticed the stock datsun starters have 9 teeth and these ones have 7 I believe as I have one myself in a box.(HI Torq Brand if I remember right. I was worried if it would eat up the flywheels. But If BIg Tanker says they Ok. I guess Ill run mine when my current one goes bad in like 25years as I dont drive the cars anymore.  These use the Denso style selinoids which I think is better than the Hitachi set up

What do you mean Yes it fits, and it bolts right up the FJ20 as well. 

[mrbigtanker]

Untitled by raymond medeiros, on Flickr

 

Look close, its right there. I might look stupid but I am ignorant.

[d.p]

Because I am too lazy to look does anyone know how or where the wire from the ignition solenoid is routed to the starter?  Behind the dash, through the firewall and along the engine bay?  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

21 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Get a gear reduction starter for a 280zx or 810/Maxima. Both are L series six cylinders and the starter plenty powerful.

 

That's essentially what the racers use/sell, except the nose piece is clockable.

[mrbigtanker]

10 hours ago, d.p said:

Because I am too lazy to look does anyone know how or where the wire from the ignition solenoid is routed to the starter?  Behind the dash, through the firewall and along the engine bay?  

It should run up the passenger side fender well up through fire wall to your cluster area. I think it does go to ignition.

[banzai510(hainz)]

http://www.hitorque.com/Default.asp

 

I think this is it

http://www.hitorque.com/product_p/imi-202-001.htm

 

these guys make it even though not listed

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[mrbigtanker]

1 hour ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

http://www.hitorque.com/Default.asp

 

I think this is it

http://www.hitorque.com/product_p/imi-202-001.htm

 

these guys make it even though not listed

 

That does look like it. He pulls the stickers off. hahaha