93 Eclipse gs Widebody

[Syncro]

haven't gone there yet, however I've got a friend thats willing to sell me his old jdm turbo motor with arp head studs and a bunch of other new stuff, basically stock though, needs new bearings possibly but he only wants $200 and it doesn't sound like it needs to much work, said I can hear it run.

[I'm BLUE]

If you can see that Turbo run , and just replace the bearings regardless that's a good deal.

Make sure it isn't already all gouged though.

 

At least that's what I would do.

[Tristin]

Yeah, $200 for a good running JDM 6bolt is pretty good. I would snap it up. 

[Syncro]

Yeah i just really don't like the idea of using a turbo ive been pretty adamant about being naturally aspirated. Think im gonna get the motor anyway to have the car running fairly quick while im buidling my high comp 4g63. Whats cheaper, new bearing or valves for my head?

[Syncro]

local z club meeting tonight, uploading pics after, my dad got most of the hood frame together and welded, now just need to weld on some gussets, looked at how the hood is gonna fit on the car though, looks beautiful.

[RaptorReed]

Think of it this way, if you don't replace the bearings and just valves instead, that $200 you just spent went to waste. Do it right the first time or don't expect it to last very long.

[Syncro]

no the valves on the turbo motor are good, the bearings may need to be replaced, the valves on my current motor need to be replaced.

[Syncro]

[Syncro]

hood still has a lot of excess that needs to be trimmed off, also need to add some structural reinforcement to the underside and bond it to the hood frame we made. I'll be getting some pics of the hood frame later today. in the pic the driverside fender looks lower then the passenger side but it really isn't.

[Wreckless]

You're building an NA 4G63 to run an AWD widebody GS (which will doubtlessly be significantly heavier than stock) in a region that stays around 6000ft DA at best? 

Good luck dude. I hope you've got a thicker skin in real life than you've shown in this thread, especially if you ever drive it to one of the local meets. 

 

 

PS - driving in ABQ sucks on a motorcycle, I'll give you that, but driving a car isn't any worse than most places.

If you want to see bad driving, try driving anywhere near the strip in Las Vegas on a Friday afternoon.

[Syncro]

Actually that is just the skin, its only there to get an idea of what it will look like, there gonna be two or three more layers of twaron as well as gel coat and a metal frame on it.

[datzenmike]

Good luck dude. I hope you've got a thicker skin in real life than you've shown in this thread, especially if you ever drive it to one of the local meets. 

Missed it.

[Syncro]

oh, I know what you mean now, had a brain fart. I'm not to worried, a few local dsm club members have told me what they think of it, and while they don't necessarily like it, they like my dedication to it, only one of them has actually seen the car in real life, didn't  say much about it, everyone likes my leather interior though. One guy I knew locally who is a complete asshole told me to take the boat anchor off the back of the car, dumb ass tried to say aerodynamics don't mean anything til 200mph, which is bullshit, most people should know aerodynamics really start having an affect at 60mph, I would actually like to take the car to a wind tunnel or something and see if I've actually improved the down force and airflow on the car, the spoiler definitely added downforce, I've had it on two of my dsm's and it worked pretty well, hood wise there's no way to be sure but it should definitely relieve air pressure in the engine bay.

[Wreckless]

The idea is to add more downforce without adding boatloads of drag and weight. With how much you're increasing the frontal area with the wider fenders and huge wing, nevermind the weight, all you're doing is making a fat brick a wider and fatter brick.
You could have made the wing totally flat and straight and it's mass alone would be plenty to 'feel' a difference in how 'planted' it is. If you were really serious about aero you should have skipped the widebody and factory style wing and have spent all this effort on a good front splitter and a properly sized adjustable APR wing on the rear. Getting extreme from there would lead to tiny aero rear mirrors, shaved the antenna, get clever with ducting for brake & radiator cooling in the front end, and go balls-out on a weight reduction plan. 
Following that, getting serious with your brake system, suspension, and wheel & tire selection would make or break how successful of a track car/canyon carver it'd be. 

After that, and I do mean *AFTER* that, - go crazy on the engine. I'd love to see an all motor 4G63 setup on an MSII with a set of AE111 or GSXR throttle bodies, 272's or 280's, big valves, a hogged out head, huge compression, lightweight bits in the bottom end, lightweight flywheel, etc. Hell, find a 2.4L 4G64 bottom end for it too. When going NA and dealing with a sane rev range for hydraulic lifters & an OEM frankenstein combination of engine internals, you need all the displacement you can get. 

But even the hottest realistic combo like that would probably only make 140-160whp actual at this altitude (though your 'corrected' dyno number with our usual ~6500ft DA would look much cooler) but with the right combo of making it weigh as little as possible, and getting the suspension and brakes dialed in to match, it'd be a trolling riot on a road course or auto-x, and nothing makes me smile at a track day like seeing BMW's and Miata's covered in SCCA stickers get hounded mercilessly by some homebrew McWTF racer that they rolled their eyes at during the driver's meeting. 
 

That sort of formula should be your game plan if you're serious about embarrassing Type R's and such at the Church AutoX or at Sandia/Napa Motorsports park.   

I admire your dedication to doing it your own way, and you've obviously invested in the blood/sweat/tears/time into doing this balls-out. The problem here is that you've got this preconceived notion of what it's going to accomplish that is misled and shows a huge lack of knowledge - a lack of knowledge that's made worse by your attitude. You need to be honest and realistic with yourself and what you actually know about building a car, and don't be afraid to admit you don't know and to ask questions from there to people that DO know. If you did that and coupled it with your passionate drive to 'just build it', you'd be churning out some real awesome stuff in short order. 

I had to learn those same lessons the hard way, and it was only after losing a couple of motors after old farts told me that was exactly what would happen did I come to my senses. 

 

For whatever my 20 Pesos is worth, stick with the vision of your wild widebody, but go turbo FWD and go crazy with a REALLY nice paint and interior setup, chrome/polished engine detailing, etc, and make it a nice sunday cruiser & show car. Your widebody would allow a truly batshit crazy negative offset wheel setup and the show scene absolutely loves that stuff these days.

Then take the other 1G GS you've got or find another one, and go all-business wild with weight reduction and methodical setup & planning to do your NA 1G Honda-eater. Flex your inclination to fabricate stuff on a good front splitter, brake air ducts, etc, read about suspension and aerodynamics until your eyes bleed, and the magical combo that you're seeking will absolutely happen. 

[RaptorReed]

^I have a MS2 ecu sitting boxed up somewhere lol.

[Syncro]

I was actually thinking of doing something like that with the gs I drive daily, the wing is actually my favorite piece and my dad said its really based of a flipped wing basically. As far as suspension goes We'll be building an air ride setup for the widebody. Also intended on building a splitter for the widebody,but that not til much further down the road, as for the front bumper I originally intended on having it a bit more pointed instead of fairly flat and round. As for the motor here is what the kinda who wants to build my motor said would go into it: BC 272/272 cams, 4g64 galant pistons, 4g61 small chamber head, late model galant injectors, stock 7bolt crank. After that I added 2mm bigger valves, among other valve train related parts to the head idea, extrude honed intake, quad pipe exhaust, knife edged 7bolt crank, and fidanza flywheel. My dad wants to add 100hp shot of nitrous after all that. I've got my motor layed out and I'll let it grow from there, if I don't see the horsepower I want at first I'll keep trying new things til I do, worst case scenario I build a stroker motor and use a 16g, should spool fairly quick and get me want I want. At some point I'll have both my dsm's weighed, see what the actual difference is, I'm hoping to build a set of fiberglass doors with manual roll up windows made from lexan or plexi for the widebody, should drop weight quite a bit. This car is just supposed to be my dream, not a flat out race car. I'm basically trying to build road racer with all the creature comforts I want or need that. Hell I may just fix the stock motor and detail the shit out of it, drop it back in and hook up a 100 shot of nitrous. I once said that I didn't want any power adders or otherwise, I'd like to be adamant about that, if the motor I build only kicks out 250hp, I'll be happy, heck there's already a guy making 218hp in a dsm and his motor isn't anywhere near as built as mine will be, I don't think I'll be disappointed if its not as fast as I dreamed, I can always make it go faster, just takes more work. As for my maroon gs thats probably gonna see a lot of suspension work, but that also not for a while.

[jalen]

I have done a lot of stupid shit, I have a build thread dedicated to that. But the last few pages....just wow....some advice stick to post about cars and don't admit to doing anything illegal on the Internet were anyone can see it..

On the bright side I'm impressed you still are working in the car. Last time I checked in on it, it was on page 4

[Laecaon]

Thats coming a lot from Jalen, who had to have an intervention from his brother and parents. He has definitely learned a bit.

 

Other than that, Like I said in another thread, Hey at least you are being an active kid, and not just doing nothing.

 

Why Im not sure where I stand on the actual build, I at least recognize you are learning skills, and that is something. Not everyone can do what you are doing. There are reasons I get paid to install a tool box on a truck...

[Syncro]

I could honestly care less about what was going on earlier, I'm just trying to get the thread back on track, after I mentioned the stupid shit and it got completely derailed, I'm just gonna focus on pics of work that gets done from now on.

[Wreckless]

I was actually thinking of doing something like that with the gs I drive daily, the wing is actually my favorite piece and my dad said its really based of a flipped wing basically. As far as suspension goes We'll be building an air ride setup for the widebody. Also intended on building a splitter for the widebody,but that not til much further down the road, as for the front bumper I originally intended on having it a bit more pointed instead of fairly flat and round. As for the motor here is what the kinda who wants to build my motor said would go into it: BC 272/272 cams, 4g64 galant pistons, 4g61 small chamber head, late model galant injectors, stock 7bolt crank. After that I added 2mm bigger valves, among other valve train related parts to the head idea, extrude honed intake, quad pipe exhaust, knife edged 7bolt crank, and fidanza flywheel. My dad wants to add 100hp shot of nitrous after all that. I've got my motor layed out and I'll let it grow from there, if I don't see the horsepower I want at first I'll keep trying new things til I do, worst case scenario I build a stroker motor and use a 16g, should spool fairly quick and get me want I want. At some point I'll have both my dsm's weighed, see what the actual difference is, I'm hoping to build a set of fiberglass doors with manual roll up windows made from lexan or plexi for the widebody, should drop weight quite a bit. This car is just supposed to be my dream, not a flat out race car. I'm basically trying to build road racer with all the creature comforts I want or need that. Hell I may just fix the stock motor and detail the shit out of it, drop it back in and hook up a 100 shot of nitrous. I once said that I didn't want any power adders or otherwise, I'd like to be adamant about that, if the motor I build only kicks out 250hp, I'll be happy, heck there's already a guy making 218hp in a dsm and his motor isn't anywhere near as built as mine will be, I don't think I'll be disappointed if its not as fast as I dreamed, I can always make it go faster, just takes more work. As for my maroon gs thats probably gonna see a lot of suspension work, but that also not for a while. Not sure I ever mention this but the widebody's name is Mischief, came named and I liked it, the Maroon cars name is Trouble, though my dad's been trying to call is Snar.

 

I know I'm not alone in saying that if you stopped posting from your phone, and actually threw in some paragraph structure, it'd be a lot easier to take you seriously.

Reading your WALLOFALLMYTEXTWITHNOLINEBREAKS is headache-inducing. 

 

As for the area I bolded, man, I don't really know where to start, but you're basically shooting holes in a bucket & saying that those holes will let you carry more water in it. 

 

Where. The. Hell. is your engine management? I promise that a regular 4G63 NA with a pair of 272's dropped in & a bolt-on header will make more power on a properly tuned standalone than your planned setup without one. Your parts lists shows nothing of this. Don't feed me some BS about an Emanage or socketed 1G ECU or DSMlink or any of that other happy horseshit aimed at moderately built turbo cars.

Doing NA and doing it well on a 4G63 is going to need a full goose bozo standalone and professional tuning to get anywhere. 

 

A stock 4G61 head with a pair of 272's will be fine at first, but definitely skip the 2mm oversize valves, if anything spend your ported stuff $$$ on getting the ports blended & smoothed, valves unshrouded, and the volume of each combustion chamber matched, and the valves hand-lapped into the head. This keeps the stock valve seats & valve guides and doesn't add anymore valvetrain weight, which again, if you're doing high HP NA you need BIG rpm, and hydraulic lifters + heavier valves = FU valve lash collapsed lifters, valve float, rabble rabble rabble. The work involved in making even 1mm oversize valves worthwhile in a DOHC 4v engine is NOT trivial, and at this stage of the game, shouldn't even be in your playbook. 

 

You seem to know the vocabulary to use, but the list you're rattling off shows that you really don't seem to understand how each one affects the overall whole. 2mm oversize valves with a stock ported intake manifold is pants-on-head retarded and while I'm sure it sounds cool to other people that don't know a damn thing about building engines, anyone that's done serious NA stuff is going to face-palm themselves hard enough to give them a concussion when they hear that.  

Back to high RPM NA. If you're insistent on using a single throttle body like the OEM intake, you're going to need to have a new plenum or runners fabricated that use MUCH shorter intake runners. Longer runners = low RPM torque, shorter runners = high RPM. This is why every sportbike engine runs either sidedraft carbs or individual throttle bodies. If you were to add one thing to my 'just do a standalone ECU with 272's and a header' suggested build, I'd simply get a set of GSXR throttles, take a band-saw to a stock intake manifold about 1.5in past the flange, and just ghetto-rig some couplers onto the GSXR throttles & build a bracket to suit as we can see in this link here:

 

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240SX_Performance_Modification/KA24DE_and_KA24E - it's at the bottom of the NA section under 'ITB - individual throttle bodies'. (I can't get the direct link to the ITB setup to properly hyperlink in this post, so you'll have to navigate this one page first) 

 

After ITB's, big cams, and a standalone, next would be bumping the compression with 4G64 pistons and a 4G61 head or whatever other combo like that you'd care to do. A balance shaft delete should be such a no-brainer as to be silly to mention. Skip the Fiderpza flywheel and avoid any aluminum flywheels - the lightweight steel flywheels available do not have the problems with ring gears separating, engagement surfaces warping/separating, or otherwise just failing at existence. The lightweight steel flywheels get nearly as light as the aluminum ones and usually cost less if you shop around. Putting together two dissimilar materials in a heat-loading area like a flywheel that's going to get slipped all the time is just silly. I've seen countless Fidanzas and RPS cyn-r-g flywheels fall apart or need rebuilds in short order after actually being beat on. They look neat coming out of the box, but that's about it. 

 

But the part I bolded... oh man. So you don't want a race car, but you want a race car? Air ride is literally the polar opposite end of road racer-capable suspension. We're talking like Neutron Stars and Grapefruit opposite. Kate Upton and blobfish opposite. Next you're going to tell me that you're going to find a walrus, ratchet-strap the guy to a bed of skateboards, and enter him into the next X-games. 

The idea of matching Lexan windows and going to base-model hand-crank windows for weight reduction after installing air ride and your right-stuff-rodin sculpted widebody is literally putting ice skates and a skirt on a moose and telling it to go figure skating.

I have faith that as a 17 year old, you'll stubbornly be pleased with the dismal results, but after losing literally every streetrace against any car more potent than a 1987 auto-trans Camry, and looking like a midget riding a three-legged pig in the Kentucky Derby at your one-time-wonder track event after being a driving instructor's nightmare by your stubborn insistence that you know what you're doing when you don't, eventually you're just going to be a tired, bitter laughingstock of the local car scene.

 

You might still like your car, you and your Dad will talk about how everyone else is a dick and they don't know anything, "haters gonna hate", blah blah blah. It's happened before around here and it'll happen again. Give it a few years and everyone will be all over facebook and instagram with pics of your widebody when it's found at U-pull-and-pay. Twenty years from now you might have a 16 year old son of your own, and you'll show him pictures of your Eclipse, feed him the same ignorant crap, and he'll be in your sideyard with future-bondo and recycled carbon fiber underwear making a widebody 2018 Yaris that'll be just as misguided in concept and goals, and have the same disappointing results. The cycle will repeat, proving over and over again that denial isn't just a river in Egypt. 

 

*OR* you can listen to everyone else here, who have been incredibly tolerant and kind in their judgement of your build, because I guarantee if you posted this on TSC you'd get trolled and flamed to the brink of ragequitting from the whole internet. The only reason it *wasn't* flamed that way on RSW last year is because RSW is dying a sad, slow death and maybe 5-10 people a week even check the site. 

 

But if you continue to stick to this 'I'm putting lipstick and roller skates on a Rhino and taking it to prom' sort of build concept, you WILL get laughed at, and as much as you'll angrily thumb-fuck your phone back at me saying you don't care, you do what you want, you know everything, you're doing, you're 17 you know it all.... you're 17, and yes, you give a shit about what other people think.

We were all 17 once and you're fooling nobody - which is why we're smiling & shaking our heads or chuckling with bemusement because we remember the ways we did the same shit. 

 

Build this widebody into a show car with that Evo III 16G. Put some videos on youtube of a torquesteering, tire-frying ~350whp FWD GS-T with stretched 255's on 3-piece 18x12's with a pony keg's worth of lip on all four corners and get the love from the hellaflush wheelwhore crowd. Put a huge stereo in it. Put the air ride on it and hardpark the fuck out of it at the meets. Let it live up to your vision that way. When people come at you about how heavy it is, how silly it is, etc etc etc, you can just say "I wanted it to look this way, I know it's heavier, I know it's an aerodynamic disaster, and I don't care, I love the way it looks and I built it myself." From that you'll get a nod or a shrug and they'll move on.

 

Save your 'because race car' lightweight shenanigans for a second build that will be NA, and actually has a chance of performing the way you want to. If you try to combine these ideas, you will be laughed at, and your car will be a rolling joke to everyone else in this city that knows a damn thing about cars, instead of seeing it as 'damn, you mean a 17 year old built that wide body all by himself?' 

 

What's going to make the difference between laughter and applause on this widebody build of yours is whether or not you insist on keeping this 'it'll be a fast road racer & light weight' delusion alive in your head. 

 

I hope you take the time to read all of this, and consider it, and forgive me if it's not all that clear - I'm hammering this out around 70wpm and sometimes my stream-of-thought gets a little random. 

 

Good luck. 

[laotsu]

Oh shit! He called your DAD dumb, son!

[DRIVEN]

I thought I'd regret checking in on this thread.  I was wrong.

[72240z]

Why are you doing this to yourself wreckless? lol 

[Syncro]

Damn thats gonna take a while to read through.

[Syncro]

I know it won't be the quickest car I ever drive, I know most people think all thats been added basically makes it more like a boat anchor then a car. Where is all the added weight coming from? The spoiler is basically no heavier then the stock spoiler, and hell i'll get a scale if I have to prove it. The hood should way far less then the stock one did, and when its done I'll way both of them and show the difference. The foam and gelcoat and twaron on the fenders and quartpanels probably weights less then your thinking it does. Ive gotten into a few races with this car when it ran, the hood and spoiler already had the added weight and I beat almost anything I went up against, with an all stock car being weighed down I beat a sentra type r with a header and cold air intake with ease, and that was with nearly bald eagle gt's. I know very little about heads and porting, I was planning on talking to my engine builder about some of the idea's I had, i'll admit im not the most expierience person out there and i'll listen to anyone giving me advice. Maybe the car looks goofy to you, you could be right about the aerodynamics being total shit, and everything you said about my potential motor is probably true too. I'll probably be using a different fuel management system as you've suggested. I'm trying to be as polite as possible but when you insult me or the car its makes it pretty difficult to ignore that shit. Air ride, fender flares, air flow, and weight loss were the first idea's for this car. Your basically telling me the car ive benn working on for the past 6 years is shit man. I don't care if you think of the car as stupid or a joke im gonna finish it the way I intended to, fuck what everyone else thinks of it, the car isnt meant to be famous or for the everyone outelse there to like it this car is more of a love it hate it sort of deal. The day this car dies is the day I die, i'll be buried in this car before I let it go.