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Anyone want to buy new 320 vent window rubbers?

ol' 320

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Rusty gate Newbie

Rusty gate

Posted
Posted

Ok everyone I have received some positive feedback on the 1/4 window seals. The company has provided some preliminary prices and seal details. They will be made using injection moulds, UV resistant and they will be shrinkage resistant as well. The only thing is the rubber will be solid not hollow like the originals. (Not sure if this will an issue)
Now comes the cost. I will need a minimum of 100 pairs sold at $160 US a pair this will cover the set up cost. 
If we were able to sell more then I could reduce the cost accordingly to numbers. 
I know people might be sceptical about sending money prior to receiving the product, you could use PayPal and that way you have piece of mind with PayPal insurance. 
Let me know what you think. 
Thanks 

Ps I will need a better CAD copy of the seal or if someone has NOS and  is willing to send to the company,  I will organise a half price set for your effort

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datzenmike Grand Master

datzenmike

Posted
Posted
On 9/28/2017 at 5:40 PM, datzenmike said:

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/7161-620-king-cab-window-gaskets/

 

 

This is never happening again. It went on for two? years and many Ratsun members paid in advance and got fucked over. If you want to discuss making them, fine. But if this gets to pre ordering or offering them for sale or taking orders, it will be shut down.  Sorry, once bitten twice shy.

 

Once you have them ready made, in advance and in numbers ready for sale, post in the classifieds. I imagine they will sell like hot cakes.

 

On 9/29/2017 at 5:41 AM, datzenmike said:

 

Jesus, calm down. Maybe my post was too subtle for you... so, no, not you. I have no idea who you are, I'm only pointing out that bad things have happened to our members in the past that I don't want repeated. 

 

I encourage any technical discussion on making rare impossible parts. If you can build a better mousetrap, do so. It's part and parcel of owning a vintage vehicle. Mklotz70, ]2eDeYe, BEEBANNI and others make and sell their products but they have to pre-exist before they are sold here. That's all I'm saying. 

 

On 12/21/2018 at 3:59 PM, datzenmike said:

I remember years ago there was a group buy for 620 window rubber gaskets. It dragged on for over 2 years with nothing but excuses from the fella who was dealing with the manufacturer over seas. It ended as a total fuck up and I don't think everyone got their down payment back. To this day everything sold in the classifieds has to actually exist in the seller's hand and no money asked in advance.

 

Just be advised....

 

I know you guys are really desperate for good replacement rubber but this is turning down the same road.

 

Mklotz made his parts and then sold them. He didn't ask for money for materials first.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Rusty gate said:

 
I know people might be sceptical about sending money prior to receiving the product, you could use PayPal and that way you have piece of mind with PayPal insurance. 

 

 Isn't there a time limit on this?? Actual parts may be months away.

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thisismatt Grand Master

thisismatt

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Rusty gate said:

Ok everyone I have received some positive feedback on the 1/4 window seals. The company has provided some preliminary prices and seal details. They will be made using injection moulds, UV resistant and they will be shrinkage resistant as well. The only thing is the rubber will be solid not hollow like the originals. (Not sure if this will an issue)
Now comes the cost. I will need a minimum of 100 pairs sold at $160 US a pair this will cover the set up cost. 
If we were able to sell more then I could reduce the cost accordingly to numbers. 
I know people might be sceptical about sending money prior to receiving the product, you could use PayPal and that way you have piece of mind with PayPal insurance. 
Let me know what you think. 
Thanks 

Ps I will need a better CAD copy of the seal or if someone has NOS and  is willing to send to the company,  I will organise a half price set for your effort

 

Are there even 100 vehicles in existence for these? PayPal is not going to help prospective buyers a year after payment when the seals still haven't materialized. Caveat emptor. You are running into the major problem with having something like this made...

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mklotz70 Rising Star

mklotz70

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Mklotz made his parts and then sold them. He didn't ask for money for materials first.

 

I thought I'd add a bit of clarification to this.  This is true for the parts that I designed and put on my site....it's also part of the reason I'm not going to be doing it anymore.  But.....for the custom work I've done, like the Z'd lower control arms and 13" brake setups, I quoted a price, then took a 50% deposit so that the materials would not have to come out of my pocket. I typically waited until I had a few at one time.  Some of the customers waited months for me to get them finished up.  Knowing it would take an unpredictable amount of time was the main reason I never offered them on my site.   

 

The difference here is that I had control over the results and it was only a two party transaction.  I was not at the mercy of another manufacturer like it will be with the gaskets.  I've checked into doing other gaskets(and other items) over the years and it has always been very cost prohibitive.  To get a proven manufacturer to make these, it has to be worth it for them financially.  In order for that to happen, there has to be a large market for them.  Finding a manufacturer that will cover the cost based on potential sales.....extremely unlikely.....enough so that I'm going to say that it's NOT going to happen.  Finding one that will be willing to handle any part of the sales or dealing with the end customer.....also extremely unlikely.  That's not what they're in the business to do.  They want to make a large quantity of parts and get paid for doing just that.  I'm sure everyone already understands this, but is hoping that somehow these basic facts will somehow change in order to make this happen.  I'm not saying they can't change, but it's highly unlikely.   I've never looked for one, but if there's a "boutique" business that does rubber products, they might be a better choice.  I use that word because that was the word used when the NL320 guys were having the tail light lenses made.  There was one guy doing plastic molding and made up a run of the tail lights lenses.  Of course, once the run was done, he decided it just wasn't worth it and quit doing them. lol   Hmmm....seems there was also a deal with the front windows, but I don't remember the details.  

 

I think it's been brought up before about having them 3D printed.  Things are changing rapidly with 3D printing.  There are filaments available now that weren't around even a year or two ago.  I've seen the gaskets around door mirrors and door handles printed with filaments that are UV and chemical resistant.  Granted, the exposed areas are minimal in those applications.  If the prototypes were printed in a flexible material, even if not UV/chemical resistant, they could at least prove the CAD work, design and fit.  It would take a lot of the risk out of sending a unproven CAD file to a real manufacturer.  

 

For what it's worth.....knowing what I know now about being the middle man on deals(very small deals compared to this)......there's no way I'd be the person trying to set this up.  LOL!  My hat is off to anyone even attempting it.  Basically....that person is going to be expected to pony up the huge cost to have them proto-typed and manufactured. Then, when they're all done and a "real" final price if figured out so that they can potentially get their money back, of the 30 people that say "I'm definitely getting a set", only about 3-5 will actually follow through.  A lot will say the price is higher than expected. Some will say...I don't need them just yet, but when I do, I'll be back for a set......like you've got nothing better to do than tie up thousands of dollars of your money by having them sit on your shelf until they're done spending money on beer and toys. lol  Others will just become a ghost as if they'd never made any commitment.  The person that ponied up all the money to make it happen will end up getting screwed financially on the deal.  All those that "changed their minds" or flat out ghosted on the deal, probably won't even feel bad about it.  If we were talking hundreds of dollars to get them made....no big deal....it would have already happened.....but this deal will take thousands to make happen.....at least if they're going to be OEM quality parts. 

 

I haven't followed every post on here, but it looks like Rusty Gate was trying to make this happen.  Rusty.....if you can get these made for your own use for even $1500/set, you'll be money ahead and have incredibly less stress and risk than you will if you try to get them done for others.  If you have extras made, you'd probably be justified in asking $500/set for them....just keep in mind.....no matter what you would sell them for.....even $50/set.....you will end up with backlash at some point.  If they're not absolutely perfect and you're not willing to install them .....the price will never be good enough for some of them. LOL   I'm sure I sound pretty jaded....I'm really not.  Out of the hundreds of transactions I've done with people over the years, I've had very few that went south or even sideways.  But....it only takes one to open your eyes.....then the second one leaves a really bad taste in your mouth you won't soon forget! lol :)   I would not consider someone committed to purchasing unless they gave at least a 50% deposit.  First thing you learn in sales is that "buyers are liars".  If you don't have a physical commitment from there....as in cash in hand.....I would not count on them following through....they might.....but I wouldn't count on it.  As you can tell from DatzenMike's posts.....he's not going to let that happen.  You're trying to help.....he's trying to protect.  Sorry, but as a new guy....you're just not going to win.  Hell....I've been here from before this site started and I doubt that even I have enough reputation to pull off what you'd like to do. LOL  I've also been around long enough to know better than to even try! :)  

 

Well....that was about 45min I probably shouldn't have spent on here. LOL  

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Rusty gate Newbie

Rusty gate

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mklotz70 said:

 

I thought I'd add a bit of clarification to this.  This is true for the parts that I designed and put on my site....it's also part of the reason I'm not going to be doing it anymore.  But.....for the custom work I've done, like the Z'd lower control arms and 13" brake setups, I quoted a price, then took a 50% deposit so that the materials would not have to come out of my pocket. I typically waited until I had a few at one time.  Some of the customers waited months for me to get them finished up.  Knowing it would take an unpredictable amount of time was the main reason I never offered them on my site.   

 

The difference here is that I had control over the results and it was only a two party transaction.  I was not at the mercy of another manufacturer like it will be with the gaskets.  I've checked into doing other gaskets(and other items) over the years and it has always been very cost prohibitive.  To get a proven manufacturer to make these, it has to be worth it for them financially.  In order for that to happen, there has to be a large market for them.  Finding a manufacturer that will cover the cost based on potential sales.....extremely unlikely.....enough so that I'm going to say that it's NOT going to happen.  Finding one that will be willing to handle any part of the sales or dealing with the end customer.....also extremely unlikely.  That's not what they're in the business to do.  They want to make a large quantity of parts and get paid for doing just that.  I'm sure everyone already understands this, but is hoping that somehow these basic facts will somehow change in order to make this happen.  I'm not saying they can't change, but it's highly unlikely.   I've never looked for one, but if there's a "boutique" business that does rubber products, they might be a better choice.  I use that word because that was the word used when the NL320 guys were having the tail light lenses made.  There was one guy doing plastic molding and made up a run of the tail lights lenses.  Of course, once the run was done, he decided it just wasn't worth it and quit doing them. lol   Hmmm....seems there was also a deal with the front windows, but I don't remember the details.  

 

I think it's been brought up before about having them 3D printed.  Things are changing rapidly with 3D printing.  There are filaments available now that weren't around even a year or two ago.  I've seen the gaskets around door mirrors and door handles printed with filaments that are UV and chemical resistant.  Granted, the exposed areas are minimal in those applications.  If the prototypes were printed in a flexible material, even if not UV/chemical resistant, they could at least prove the CAD work, design and fit.  It would take a lot of the risk out of sending a unproven CAD file to a real manufacturer.  

 

For what it's worth.....knowing what I know now about being the middle man on deals(very small deals compared to this)......there's no way I'd be the person trying to set this up.  LOL!  My hat is off to anyone even attempting it.  Basically....that person is going to be expected to pony up the huge cost to have them proto-typed and manufactured. Then, when they're all done and a "real" final price if figured out so that they can potentially get their money back, of the 30 people that say "I'm definitely getting a set", only about 3-5 will actually follow through.  A lot will say the price is higher than expected. Some will say...I don't need them just yet, but when I do, I'll be back for a set......like you've got nothing better to do than tie up thousands of dollars of your money by having them sit on your shelf until they're done spending money on beer and toys. lol  Others will just become a ghost as if they'd never made any commitment.  The person that ponied up all the money to make it happen will end up getting screwed financially on the deal.  All those that "changed their minds" or flat out ghosted on the deal, probably won't even feel bad about it.  If we were talking hundreds of dollars to get them made....no big deal....it would have already happened.....but this deal will take thousands to make happen.....at least if they're going to be OEM quality parts. 

 

I haven't followed every post on here, but it looks like Rusty Gate was trying to make this happen.  Rusty.....if you can get these made for your own use for even $1500/set, you'll be money ahead and have incredibly less stress and risk than you will if you try to get them done for others.  If you have extras made, you'd probably be justified in asking $500/set for them....just keep in mind.....no matter what you would sell them for.....even $50/set.....you will end up with backlash at some point.  If they're not absolutely perfect and you're not willing to install them .....the price will never be good enough for some of them. LOL   I'm sure I sound pretty jaded....I'm really not.  Out of the hundreds of transactions I've done with people over the years, I've had very few that went south or even sideways.  But....it only takes one to open your eyes.....then the second one leaves a really bad taste in your mouth you won't soon forget! lol 🙂  I would not consider someone committed to purchasing unless they gave at least a 50% deposit.  First thing you learn in sales is that "buyers are liars".  If you don't have a physical commitment from there....as in cash in hand.....I would not count on them following through....they might.....but I wouldn't count on it.  As you can tell from DatzenMike's posts.....he's not going to let that happen.  You're trying to help.....he's trying to protect.  Sorry, but as a new guy....you're just not going to win.  Hell....I've been here from before this site started and I doubt that even I have enough reputation to pull off what you'd like to do. LOL  I've also been around long enough to know better than to even try! 🙂

 

Well....that was about 45min I probably shouldn't have spent on here. LOL  

Thank you for your input, I really only wanted to help out and get a set of gaskets made for my project and the company is asking $5000 upfront to make the injection moulds hence why I needed payment. I guess I will save up the money myself and make a few sets and have them listed on eBay when the time comes. 

I have learnt an important lesson early on

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datzenmike Grand Master

datzenmike

Posted
Posted

I know barely what 3D printing is, so this may be less than helpful, but could you not print a mold of the part you want? Or have it professionally made? Maybe a 3 or 4 piece that comes apart to remove the complex convoluted contents? Spray with mold release, fit it together and fill with 'soft' polyurethane 'rubber' and let set. I know, I'm making this sound easy, but sometimes all it takes is an idea. This way you have total control of the process and you don't need a big outlay of cash. Make parts as needed.

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320 Newb Collaborator

320 Newb

Posted
Posted

I've got a good hotrod glass place that figured out the 60s ford pickup back glass gaskets fit the front/back glass for the 320s. They also figured out the Jeep Commander front glass fit the curve of the 320 and cut me one to fit. They said they're confident they can find 1/4 glass gaskets they can cut up and glue to fit. I still have a long way to go before I'm ready to put my glass back in but if there's nothing available by that time that's the route I'll prob go. 

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Stoffregen Motorsports Grand Master

Stoffregen Motorsports

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I know barely what 3D printing is, so this may be less than helpful, but could you not print a mold of the part you want? Or have it professionally made? Maybe a 3 or 4 piece that comes apart to remove the complex convoluted contents? Spray with mold release, fit it together and fill with 'soft' polyurethane 'rubber' and let set. I know, I'm making this sound easy, but sometimes all it takes is an idea. This way you have total control of the process and you don't need a big outlay of cash. Make parts as needed.

I have mentioned before that having the molds made ahead of time would save a lot of money.

 

Not sure about the material availability for making the finished product at home though.

 

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datzenmike Grand Master

datzenmike

Posted
Posted

 There are all kinds of stuff on You-tube for casting stuff at home. There are also flexible urethane resins that can be bought. I can't state anything from certainty but I can point the way. Someone should be able to figure something out.

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mklotz70 Rising Star

mklotz70

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Rusty gate said:

Thank you for your input, I really only wanted to help out and get a set of gaskets made for my project and the company is asking $5000 upfront to make the injection moulds hence why I needed payment. I guess I will save up the money myself and make a few sets and have them listed on eBay when the time comes. 

I have learnt an important lesson early on

You're more than welcome.  I wish I could have been more positive about it.  I'm sure the guy before you had similar intentions and it didn't end well.  $5000??!!!  I guess I was right! lol  I didn't think it would be quite that, but I figured $3K+.  

 

Are yours completely destroyed?  If they're just hard, you might try soaking them in a 50/50 mix of auto trans fluid and acetone(I'm pretty sure that's the other fluid).  I posted the mix info I got from another guy that did exactly that with his vent rubbers.  They came out super nice.  It would take me a bit to find the info again.  

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
MBL Newbie

MBL

Posted
Posted

Reynolds advanced materials (also sold under the smooth-on brand) sells all the stuff you would need to make molds and form parts from urethane or silicone. 

They have lots of youtube video tutorials on the mold making process. They also host classes at their retail locations. You can call them on the phone for advice on which products to use.

 

https://www.reynoldsam.com/product/ 

 

With the alternative being $5000, I'd definitely try this first, if you have or can borrow a good set.

 

Cheers,

Mbl

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Stoffregen Motorsports Grand Master

Stoffregen Motorsports

Posted
Posted

When this topic started years ago, the hardest part of the equation was finding a nice set of originals to use as a template. There seems to be a newfound interest in 320s, but I doubt anyone has found a stash of parts.

 

On 5/5/2019 at 11:37 AM, mklotz70 said:

 If they're just hard, you might try soaking them in a 50/50 mix of auto trans fluid and acetone(I'm pretty sure that's the other fluid).  I posted the mix info I got from another guy that did exactly that with his vent rubbers.  They came out super nice.  It would take me a bit to find the info again.  

 

 

Mike, I searched the web for ATF/Acetone and the only results I find are for penetrating oil. Where did you post this info? I would love to try this method on a customer's vehicle I have here in the shop.

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MBL Newbie

MBL

Posted
Posted

In that case, 3d printing the part in hard plastic and using the Reynolds stuff to make the mold and part might work. People use acetone to smooth out the surface of ABS printed parts so you don't get the tiny little texture lines from the printing process in the mold. Usually a misting process, but there are other techniques.

 

I brought back a few different junk yard found rubber items, including a set of 521 wing window rubbers, with Meguirars Mirror Glaze Vinyl/rubber Conditioner. They were very stiff. Sprayed them and let it sit for a week, reapplying and rubbing it in everyday. While it's not perfect, it makes the parts many time more pliable than they started out.

 

Acetone and ATF mix is my go to Rust Penetrant. I'll see if I have any old rubber parts lying around and do a test with it. Acetone is some caustic stuff, no way I'd test that on anything valuable.

 

I find that some door weather stripping really like silicone oil. Not to bring them back from the dead (although I haven't tried), but to keep them soft and shiny.  Can usually be found for cheap at Big lots type stores in the personal hygiene isle near the trojans, knowhatimsayn?

 

Cheers.

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  • 2 weeks later...
KFunk740 Newbie

KFunk740

Posted
Posted
On 5/5/2019 at 10:08 AM, 320 Newb said:

They also figured out the Jeep Commander front glass fit the curve of the 320 and cut me one to fit. 

 

You mean the modern Jeep Commander, from 2010+? and not some old model?

 

Just making mental notes myself, in case mine ever gets busted.  I haven't heard anyone mention a specific model before.   I have a shop that would certainly help find one as well, but it'd be nice to give them a head start.  

 

Thanks for the help.

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