Anyone want to buy new 320 vent window rubbers?

[ol' 320]

 I want to pose another alternative ... When I last went to SEMA I spoke with a company that does a lot of prototyping for major manufacturers ... 

Stratasys makes lots of parts for people like Penske racing.

 

Not saying that the Advance is not a viable solution. I think most people who have seriously looked into solutions for complex rubber parts like this will soon realize there are no easy or cheap solutions.

 

This particular vent rubber is not something that can be easily priced together from "homemade" moulds. I really wish that was the case.

[ol' 320]

I am not going to SEMA this year, but if anyone else on this thread is, check out Stratasys and take along a 3d scan and ask to speak with a company rep. The rep I talked to mentioned the company does employ engineering interns, etc. I think a project like this, done on a shoestring, is going to take an insider to adopt this project in order for anything to get done. If Stratasys or someone like them is willing to do such a project and modify or create the necessary files, they may have the technology to grow a proper set of gaskets. I bet I was looking at $5million worth of demo equipment just in their SEMA booth display. I left convinced they could print a new lunar lander just from blueprints if they wanted to. Their tech was/is unreal.

[ol' 320]

7 minutes ago, Conner said:

"Hi Mickey.  I want to believe you can help us solve this long-lived problem with our beloved 320s.  Thanks for the effort you have put into this already.  

 

That said, after taking a look at your website I have some concerns....  

 

I'm not trying to be negative about this, I think it would be great if this turns out to be legitimate.  But I would need to get to know you and your company a bit better before moving forward...."   

 

What Conner said.  Mickey: Show us something "more"  This comment is offered by someone who really wants to see a solution for new 320 parts. This feedback (mine) is not meant to be insulting, just enlightening.

[320 Newb]

I friended Tanik Prasopsorn , the guy who's selling these on FaceBook, and he's got about 800 friends and he posts a lot. It's not a burner account. Also on the 320 FaceBook group he's saying 100-130 days for production. If PayPal and credit card companies allow disputes for up to 6 months worse case pay the deposit, wait 5.5 months and he doesn't deliver dispute the charge. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by 320 Newb

[wayno]

I wonder who supplied the sample.

I think Ted H. mentioned sending one off, but that was quite a while ago.

I didn't look into if sending money overseas makes a difference on disputes, I just searched what the time limit was(180 days), how many orders do they have on Facebook so far?

 

[320 Newb]

Another guy on FaceBook named Jerry L Cenquigrana  sent off the samples and it sounds like has been extensively talking to the Thai company. Jerry is another Arizona guy who posts a lot on the 320 FaceBook group. 

 

Not sure how many people on FaceBook preordered but there seems to be a lot of Ausies on there. 

[wayno]

My friend in Australia was the first person I asked, he knows a lot about Asian manufacturing and about rubber parts, he has some horror stories.

He also knows about part counterfeiting and how that part of the trade works as he has been a victim.

 

I am still waiting for a response from him, it could take a while as we have not talked in a while now.

[datzenmike]

4 hours ago, ol' 320 said:

 

This particular vent rubber is not something that can be easily priced together from "homemade" moulds. I really wish that was the case.

 

Why not? I've asked this I think 3 times on here. No answer. 3d print the mold from a scan. Figure it the fuck out. Then cast in urethane or w/e. It can't possibly cost $3-5K for someone to try this.

[trakker98]

I don't know what to tell you guys other than I spent many, many hours on the computer searching and talking to alot of different manufacturers. Many of them wanted me to personally front the money for the tooling and whatever and from what I seen in the thread that didn't work out very well for a few folks. From what I read there is still a set of molds out there somewhere sitting on a shelf. I only know I needed the seals and wanted to hopefully finish my 320 for one of my grandkids in my lifetime, not leave it for someone else to finish. I understand the concern on shipping, nothing I can do about that but do know nothing ships for cheap anymore. Ted mentioned he looked at a different set of seals from the same manufacturer and it was half the shipping cost, did shipping prices go up...I don't know. I wanted to order one of the windshields from back east, windshield was $220, $280 to ship and I was told it was a great deal. I saw more like if you're the only kid on the block that has what everyone needs, you either take it or keep looking. I chose to keep looking. When I'm ready for the windshield again, I'm sure I'll find one.

[wayno]

It's a complicated gasket Mike, it has a rounded front lower corner and there are very narrow grooves in it, it also has a flap in the upper groove to help seal the upper pointed area, it has 3 slots and one hole in the bottom section, the slots are to let water out I suspect, the hole is the pivot.

Only the back upright is even close to uniform from top to bottom but it has that flap, the front angled piece has a 1 inch slot where the upper pivot is, and above the pivot is exactly the opposite of below the pivot, same with the bottom, it's very complicated.

[wayno]

Keep in mind here that we now have a published quote, that has never happened before, but 100 pairs is going to be hard to sell, but I do not know how many forums have been contacted about this as there is more than one place that talks about Datsun 320s, and there is Australia also.

[datzenmike]

 It fits the window glass and the door frame, hell everyone with a 320 has the mold  almost made for you. Can't these two parts be scanned somehow? Hell, if you can 3D print a goddamn handgun you can 3D a rubber mold. The outer may have to be in parts to take off, then pull the part off the inner. Again, maybe if cheap enough, the mold can be destroyed to retrieve the part and print another. I don't know shit about this but convinced that someone should try to figure it out rather than give it away overseas. Hasn't enough been given away overseas??? Where's the home grown ingenuity?

 

 

 

So you pay for the tooling and then Australia pays for the same tooling or gets them for less because someone already did the heavy lifting.... and then... $80 to ship times 100 is what? $8000 saved doing it yourselves.

 

Doesn't Dat210Guy make emblems from molds?

[trakker98]

If there are other 320 sites then feel free to share this link and please share the sites with me. I'm always looking for more 320 info.

[mickey1845]

Hey everyone, 

 

Lots of posts to look through and respond to, so I hope this clears up the main concerns people have. 

 

Conner, I apologize for the unfinished website. Advance Auto Supply (AAS) primarily sells through B2B offline channels -- we're only just starting to move into B2C. So the website and other facets of our online presence are still works in progress. But thank you very much for your post -- it's good feedback for us, and we'd like to make sure people know and trust the company. I'll have to speak to someone about improving the website and adding a pre-order option for the 320 rubbers.  I'll also invite the owner and someone else from AAS to post here. 

 

ol' 320, Wayno, datzenmike and trakker98: A few months ago, Jerry L Cenquigrana contacted me about this project, mentioning the potential demand from Datsun 320 owners. After some back and forth and hearing him talk about the failed attempts so far, AAS's owner and I asked him to send us one of his window rubbers. We've received samples in worse condition so we're confident we can get this done. We talked to our production and tooling guys and calculated how much it'd cost to make this commercially worthwhile, and it comes out to 100 seals for each side. It'll take us approximately 100-130 days for tooling and production. Jerry will receive the first sample and we'll make the necessary adjustments for proper fitment. All in all, it should fall within Paypal's window for filing disputes.

[Dguy210]

On 9/15/2019 at 7:54 PM, datzenmike said:

 It fits the window glass and the door frame, hell everyone with a 320 has the mold  almost made for you. Can't these two parts be scanned somehow? Hell, if you can 3D print a goddamn handgun you can 3D a rubber mold. The outer may have to be in parts to take off, then pull the part off the inner. Again, maybe if cheap enough, the mold can be destroyed to retrieve the part and print another. I don't know shit about this but convinced that someone should try to figure it out rather than give it away overseas. Hasn't enough been given away overseas??? Where's the home grown ingenuity?

 

 

 

So you pay for the tooling and then Australia pays for the same tooling or gets them for less because someone already did the heavy lifting.... and then... $80 to ship times 100 is what? $8000 saved doing it yourselves.

 

Doesn't Dat210Guy make emblems from molds?

 

Yes, but not recently. But I also used to do 3D scanning and work with Stratasys 3D printers. 

 

Frankly, this is one of those I could solve it If I cared enough and wanted to spend the time and money to do it problems (there are many problems like that). But I don't so someone else will need to take this up, I'll give advice if asked, but I have too little time to spend on the R&D needed to solve this and frankly having made parts before there is no money incentive to it and buying and selling stuff has left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edit: Sorry if this came off a bit more snarky than I had intended, was not in the best mood lastnight.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Dguy210

[wayno]

If you had a door wing window section would that help at all, I cut a couple door frames apart for a 320 kingcab project of mine as I needed the tracks for the rear window, I never throw stuff away in case I need it in the future.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by wayno

[trakker98]

I just saw Taniks last post. He was addressing several peoples concerns including trakker98. Well Jerry L. Cenquigrana and trakker98 are the same. Trakker98 is just a user name for this site. With that said, is there anyone here in the 320 forum that if not for the lack of the seals their 320 would be complete? If not, then somebody close? I am far from ready for the seals, being handicapped kinda slows me down and I suspect all of you will finish your trucks years ahead of me so it doesn't bother me to give up the first set, preferably to someone more familiar with the truck itself that can provide Tanik the feedback he needs.

[320 Newb]

Wayno's offer to send off cut frames/windows is super generous. If this is legit that would seriously speed up the process. No back and forth they can fit them up right there. 

 

 

[trakker98]

I agree but I know it cost me $30 or 35 to send the samples. Something to consider. 

[ol' 320]

As Wayne said, this is a complicated rubber part. I think it will have to be injection molded or, possibly, 3-D printed.

 

I appreciate what Mickey stated in his last post. Perhaps if a way can be found to post a deposit in such a way that there is the ability to cancel their deposits for non-delivery by a date certain,  enough folks might be comfortable enough to move forward with orders.

 

As I stated, I sold my 320, but it still belongs to a good friend of mine. Please keep this post undated with the status on any effort to reproduce these. I might order a set for my friend just to help push this over the hump to complete an initial production run, but I would like to feel good about the vendor solution;)

 

As long as the final part quality is good, I guess I could care where they are made, as long as it does not involve North Korea or Iran.

 

Mike: If you are so sure these can be made at home, knock yourself out. You make 'em and post 'em up, and I will consider buying a pair from you, too;)  Anybody who has held a removed 320 vent rubber in their hands knows that these are pretty convoluted parts.

 

[ol' 320]

Is "Tanik" the same person as Mickey 1845?  I am not on Facebook ...

[trakker98]

Yes

[trakker98]

If Mike or anyone can make them at home, I'm curious how long it would take to make 50 or 75 sets?

[ol' 320]

Mike seems to think that just anyone can make these at home.

 

Well, there is a guy from Oregon who used to post on here who custom machines beautiful EFI intake manifolds.

They are made "at home." By a skilled professional who has a zillion hours of R and D in them, and who incidentally works making parts for an aerospace company at his day job. But why does that matter.... I guess some people think there should be no charge for such things or that anyone who wants something like this should just buy the materials and cook one up at home.

 

If these were so easy to make, someone would have made them long ago. This is a part that has to flex every time the vent is opened and closed.

 

If you are not the person with the skills to personally make these sorts of parts, I don't think it is wise to belittle people who want to invest their time and research what it takes to have something complicated made to a professional standard. But then, I don't work in the back of an auto parts store, and I can't machine something myself. And I cannot rebuild a manual gearbox or differential.

 

Mike< I have no doubt that your knowledge of what gear ratio was available in what configuration is encyclopedic and faultless, but respectfully, what do you know about making molded parts? Have you ever even personally talked to someone about contracting for the manufacture of a rubber molding?

 

I don;'t mean this as an attack. Everyone can share their opinion and hopefully, their knowledge on a forum such as this. But seriously Mike,  you've crapped all over many a discussion about making 320 rubber parts over and over - stating that basically everyone else but you should make these for themselves. Would you tell anyone who wanted their Datsun head ported to just buy a grinder and have at it themselves?

 

Just how is it helpful to suggest if everyone made these themselves then the group would save $8,000, based on shipping foe 100 sets?

Let me see, what logical fallacy is that.... hmmm?

 

Caution people on the caveats of paying for something in advance, based on what has happened before on this very forum. That's reasonable. But perhaps you could avoid shitting all over any effort to try ... just to try, mid you...to put together a plan to crowdsource the making of some rare parts? How about being just a tad more supportive? 

 

Perhaps you are thinking back to the 70s, when a lot of kids were making latex "Fright Factory" spiders in little electric molding machines that looked like miniature waffle makers. Just squirted the liquid stuff in the cooker, close and let it bake awhile.

 

Making these vent rubbers is not like pouring out and curing flat rubber washers. I may not have the expertise to make  a proper 3-D model of these rubbers, or to personally program a 3-D molder capable of making this sort of part, but I do know enough about this to know these cannot be made or grown in a $300-$500 home hobbyist level 3-D printer. Making these will not be a "begginer" 3-D printing project. This is most likely going to be a "bigger" project - unless the fellow making them is enrolled at Caltech or works in a materials lab printing complex parts all day and measuring for shrinkage, calculating mold slip and so on. 

 

Mike... if I missed something, and you ARE the expert on this subject, I apologize. Really, I do.

 

Let me know what you want to make me some 320 one-off vent window moldings. And what your discounted rate is to ship these from Canada to the USA. I'll start saving right now to place that order with you;)

     

[datzenmike]

7 hours ago, ol' 320 said:

As Wayne said, this is a complicated rubber part. I think it will have to be injection molded or, possibly, 3-D printed.

 

I appreciate what Mickey stated in his last post. Perhaps if a way can be found to post a deposit in such a way that there is the ability to cancel their deposits for non-delivery by a date certain,  enough folks might be comfortable enough to move forward with orders.

 

As I stated, I sold my 320, but it still belongs to a good friend of mine. Please keep this post undated with the status on any effort to reproduce these. I might order a set for my friend just to help push this over the hump to complete an initial production run, but I would like to feel good about the vendor solution;)

 

As long as the final part quality is good, I guess I could care where they are made, as long as it does not involve North Korea or Iran.

 

Mike: If you are so sure these can be made at home, knock yourself out. You make 'em and post 'em up, and I will consider buying a pair from you, too;)  Anybody who has held a removed 320 vent rubber in their hands knows that these are pretty convoluted parts.

 

 

7 hours ago, trakker98 said:

If Mike or anyone can make them at home, I'm curious how long it would take to make 50 or 75 sets?

 

As I said earlier I have no idea about what's involved in making them, probably the least knowledgeable, I admit that. Also have zero involvement in 320s, they are barely known to me and I leave that to you guys. But I read about the problems you have with the wing window seals and others. Sometime you can be too close to a problem and not see a solution. I'm hoping to prime the pump here and get something happening. Maybe shake a few ideas loose for consideration... be a catalyst. I don't know shit about 3D printing but hear it mentioned every day. Can it print a rubbery seal directly without a mold? Test fit and adjust the dimensions for proper fit? Nissan had them made, surely 50 years later we can do better even on a small run?