destruction of america

[paradime]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Around '73/'74 and part '75. Started in the car plant Chev/Pontiac/Monte Carlo installing UCA on frames. Then truck plant painting. Loved to paint colors and the guys I worked with were the best, course this was evened out by the foreman being a total cocksucker. One Fri I skipped work but thankfully I did phone in sick. I was lumped in with the half dozen that didn't phone and was reprimanded and told that the note in my file would be removed if I was good for 6 months. I just accidentally mentioned this to UAW shop 'guy' a few days late and he went fucking ballistic on the foreman. Everyone for a hundred feet around could hear him boot fucking him in his glass office on the factory floor. I thought that was the last of it but got called in by the foreman who was pissed. I explained that I phoned in and no one else did and he was wrong to do what he did and he had taken advantage of me because I didn't know any better at the time. He threatened me while hissing through his teeth and when he was done, well, I naturally went to the UAW 'guy' and told him and he literally ran to the foreman and lost his shit on him. That foreman, Vinny Vanstone, (the cocksucker) never spoke to me again but everyone on my shift knew what a dick he was and the hate was in his eyes. Oh yes, the hate was on.

 

Come summer that year there was the usual layoff and when called back had little seniority and was stuck spraying primer in the car plant. Geezus fucking Christ it was not what I thought it would be. There were 4 groups (fuck me it was like high school, stoners, jocks, nerds and cheerleaders) that didn't get along. If you spoke to one group the others wouldn't talk to you. I stuck it out for a few months and then just walked out one night and never looked back. If I had stayed I would have 3.4 kids, looking for 3rd wife, second mortgage, multiple DUIs a restraining order and have cirrhosis of the liver. Fuck GM

 

[paradime]

1 hour ago, angliagt said:

    I was just reading article saying that Ford loses $60,000 on every new EV they sell,

due to the huge investments they're making on building them.

        It also said that Electric Vehicles only make up about 6% of new vehicle sales.

Imagine how low it'd be without the tax breaks,etc.  

 

Like it or not, electric cars are the future of the industry. Both Ford and GM have very competitive EV technologies and manufacturing in their pipelines. Eventually, this investment in making EVs will pay off nicely. If they didn't invest now, it would mark the end of these brands. If any car company's gas ICE cheese is hanging in the wind right now, it's Toyota. Their previous CEO left Toyota so far behind, their long term stock evaluation was tanking hard. The new CEO is scrambling to catch up and recover investor confidence.

[Ooph!]

[john510]

8 hours ago, paradime said:

 

Like it or not, electric cars are the future of the industry. Both Ford and GM have very competitive EV technologies and manufacturing in their pipelines. Eventually, this investment in making EVs will pay off nicely. If they didn't invest now, it would mark the end of these brands. If any car company's gas ICE cheese is hanging in the wind right now, it's Toyota. Their previous CEO left Toyota so far behind, their long term stock evaluation was tanking hard. The new CEO is scrambling to catch up and recover investor confidence.

Ford is so competitive they lost 4 billion dollars last year on electric bullshit.

[datzenmike]

8 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

Racist basterd

[a.d._510_n_ok]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/news-paul-prediger-gofundme-raises-990-victim-formerly-known-gaige-grosskreutz-injured-hit-and-run-incident

[datzenmike]

This guy obviously has poor impulse control. Why TF would you chase down a guy with an AR??? I NEVER take my eyes off traffic anywhere near crosswalks. I doubt very much that he even looked. Pedestrians have the right of way but if you don't look after your own safety your tombstone will read "In The End, He Was Dead Right"

 

Guess he will be changing his name yet again.

[frankendat]

17 hours ago, paradime said:

 

Like it or not, electric cars are the future of the industry. Both Ford and GM have very competitive EV technologies and manufacturing in their pipelines. Eventually, this investment in making EVs will pay off nicely. If they didn't invest now, it would mark the end of these brands. If any car company's gas ICE cheese is hanging in the wind right now, it's Toyota. Their previous CEO left Toyota so far behind, their long term stock evaluation was tanking hard. The new CEO is scrambling to catch up and recover investor confidence.

I think EV is nothing but hype and if it actually becomes a popular choice, then it will cripple our weak electrical grid and EV's will be more costly to drive than ICE. The rich will continue to push to eliminate ICE vehicles and call for increased taxes to support free use of tracked and monitored shared EV's for those who cannot afford to operate their own EV. (To use you must input destination and purpose of trip must be "approved").  Of course, this will be most as only certified specialized accredited service people will be allowed to perform repairs or maintenance on EV's at astronomical cost. (EV's used by the public will be required to conform to a massive number and frequency of "inspections/services", as the "Safety" douche bags and "Regulatory" douche bags exploit the government tit). I can do this all day. EV's put the EV in EVil.

[john510]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

I think EV is nothing but hype and if it actually becomes a popular choice, then it will cripple our weak electrical grid and EV's will be more costly to drive than ICE. The rich will continue to push to eliminate ICE vehicles and call for increased taxes to support free use of tracked and monitored shared EV's for those who cannot afford to operate their own EV. (To use you must input destination and purpose of trip must be "approved").  Of course, this will be most as only certified specialized accredited service people will be allowed to perform repairs or maintenance on EV's at astronomical cost. (EV's used by the public will be required to conform to a massive number and frequency of "inspections/services", as the "Safety" douche bags and "Regulatory" douche bags exploit the government tit). I can do this all day. EV's put the EV in EVil.

And they'll eventually want you to smog the damn thing.Or check to make sure you're using clean electricity.LOL.

[paradime]

12 hours ago, john510 said:

Ford is so competitive they lost 4 billion dollars last year on electric bullshit.

Paradime overkill responce # 2,903

 

Although it's not likely for another 15 years, I know, and share the pain in watching Internal Combustion Engines fall to history. Still, I think saying this is just "electric bullshit" might be missing the industry's big picture of their bottom line.

 

As usual, if I want to know what's really going on with something, I follow the $ and here's what I learned in my research. Tesla made $81.5 billion in total revenues in 2022 on that BS, and in early 2023, their Model Y topped the Toyota Corolla to become the best selling vehicle on the planet. Being competitive in that market is not a choice, it's a matter of survival. 

 

Market analysts know that for massive ICE oriented car companies, the transition to electric will be expensive. Ford was smart enough to read the writing on the wall, so they're investing $50 billion on EV development through 2026. Ford is spending $3.9 billion on their first of 3 battery manufacturing plants. This will end their dependance on Chinese manufacturing, and with batteries making up 40% of Fords EV costs, making them in house will save them $billions in the long run, and make them far more competitive in the market. Ford has always taken a conservative management approach for their company. If you remember, Ford was the only US car Co who didn't need Bush and Obama's corporate bailout money. Later, they did take and paid back $5.9 billion in government loan for retooling to make more fuel-efficient cars.

 

In June 23' Ford’s Battery Joint Venture with SK Ontario got a $9.2 billion gov loan to build these three plants in Kentucky and Tennessee. What the anti EV propaganda left out is it's part of their $50B investment, and the estimated $4.5B in losses on EVs this year includes the cost of Ford's long term investment to make this transition. At the same time, their overall profits rose in 1st and 2nd quarter of 2023. Ford's stock was at an annual high, until in May 23' with the UAW Demands for a “Just Transition” to EVs, and the eventual strike this month to force their demands. They are in positive negotiations right now, Ford stock is already recovering, and closed up 1.37% today.  With a 5-year stock prognosis of +67.18%, the market understands where these losses are coming from, and can see that Ford is in very good shape for the foreseeable future. 

 

In preparing for the future, Ford stock climbed from a low of $11.05 in 2022 to $12.56 today, with a  5 year projection of +67.18%

 

Stuck in the ICE age, Toyota stock dropped from a high of $202.49 in 2022, to $162.42 today, with a  5 year projection of +19.22%.

 

If these figures aren't compelling, or not what you want to hear, sticking with media propaganda that supports your point of view is the best way to find the information you're looking for.

 

 

[angliagt]

     Our Governor put the stop to a proposed EV battery plant in Southern Virginia,

due to the fact that it was to be controlled by the Chinese.Ford would have been a

"partner". 

[angliagt]

2 hours ago, john510 said:

And they'll eventually want you to smog the damn thing.Or check to make sure you're using clean electricity.LOL.

     And start taxing you more & more (& more......) on them.

[datzenmike]

I was a teen through much of the muscle car era. In 1970 I bought a new 340 Dart ($3,250) which was basically a 3,000 pound six cylinder sedan but with a 10.5 compression V8 with over twice the hp. Weight to HP ratio was 9-10 to 1 and it humbled a lot of fast cars back in the day. Two years later everything went low compression and it was all over. I grew up with them and actually had one and then... it was over and gone. Once great car names kept getting slower and slower like a boxer past his prime. So sad to see them fade away.

 

 

If ICE is ending you'll just have to get used to it.

[paradime]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I was a teen through much of the muscle car era. In 1970 I bought a new 340 Dart ($3,250) which was basically a 3,000 pound six cylinder sedan but with a 10.5 compression V8 with over twice the hp. Weight to HP ratio was 9-10 to 1 and it humbled a lot of fast cars back in the day. Two years later everything went low compression and it was all over. I grew up with them and actually had one and then... it was over and gone. Once great car names kept getting slower and slower like a boxer past his prime. So sad to see them fade away.

 

 

If ICE is ending you'll just have to get used to it.

In 65' my mom got a new 2 door Dart with the slant 6 and a pushbutton 3 speed auto. Her next car was a true muscle car, 69 Ford Torino fastback with a 390 4 barrel and a C6 auto. As a kid, I knew mom shouldn't have that much car, but was damn glad she didn't know that. Today's muscle cars make that Torino look like a slant 6 Dart, but those days leave these days in their dust. 

[Ooph!]

5 hours ago, paradime said:

Paradime overkill responce # 2,903

 

 

As usual, if I want to know what's really going on with something, I follow the $ and here's what I learned in my research. Tesla made $81.5 billion in total revenues in 2022 on that BS, and in early 2023, their Model Y topped the Toyota Corolla to become the best selling vehicle on the planet. Being competitive in that market is not a choice, it's a matter of survival. 

 

 

 

 

Toyota's sales

2022 = 222,216 Corolla , 295,201 Camry   Corolla cost 28 and Camry  cost 33k

2021 = 248,993 Corolla , 313,795 Camry

 

Tesla's sales

 2022 = 120,737 Model Y  Model Y cost 64k

2021 = 161,529 Model Y

 

 Tesla's stock is priced very high at 70 times earnings compared to Toyota at 12 times, the stock is cheaper and earns more per share, the cars are priced at half the model Y even with the subsidy's.

I don't understand the top seller unless the news is claiming that for EV's only.

I've driven a friends 3 and an X, they are fast but seemed odd to me and I didn't care for the charging wait.

It would take a lot of savings with the Tesla to overcome 30k difference in price and convenience of the petrol Toyota

When I was still working my commute was 55 miles each way, there was a guy in the lab that had some mitsu EV and would call in late regularly blaming the cars lack of charge, it didn't work for very long he was told to walk if it stopped.

[mrbigtanker]

You can cook a Rib Eye in a microwave rally fast, but then again who wants a steak cooked in a microwave. Ill take mine over a fire.

[john510]

5 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

 

 

Toyota's sales

2022 = 222,216 Corolla , 295,201 Camry   Corolla cost 28 and Camry  cost 33k

2021 = 248,993 Corolla , 313,795 Camry

 

Tesla's sales

 2022 = 120,737 Model Y  Model Y cost 64k

2021 = 161,529 Model Y

 

 Tesla's stock is priced very high at 70 times earnings compared to Toyota at 12 times, the stock is cheaper and earns more per share, the cars are priced at half the model Y even with the subsidy's.

I don't understand the top seller unless the news is claiming that for EV's only.

I've driven a friends 3 and an X, they are fast but seemed odd to me and I didn't care for the charging wait.

It would take a lot of savings with the Tesla to overcome 30k difference in price and convenience of the petrol Toyota

When I was still working my commute was 55 miles each way, there was a guy in the lab that had some mitsu EV and would call in late regularly blaming the cars lack of charge, it didn't work for very long he was told to walk if it stopped.

Thanks for pointing out that "best selling" is misleading.I wasn't buying that BS at all.I can go buy and drive a Corolla home right now.I can buy a Tesla and wait how long for it ? Is a Tesla "best selling" because they can't flood the market like the others can ? 

[difrangia]

35 minutes ago, mrbigtanker said:

You can cook a Rib Eye in a microwave rally fast, but then again who wants a steak cooked in a microwave. Ill take mine over a fire.

 

I'll take the ECS (External Combustion Steak), thank U verry much !!

 

What kinda critter drives a Corolla or any other small ICE sedan now-a-days?

Completely different owners drive Corolla, Civic, small ICE Hyundai sedan or whatever sedan of that nature, than drive electric sedans. Normal people want a SUV. 

That Corolla by the way is the first passenger vehicle to surpass the total sales of the air-cooled VW and now it has nearly joined the Bug (all types) as production goes, but have U ever heard of a Corolla club or swap-meet? The VW Bug was the first vehicle to surpass the Model-T Ford in production totals.

 

Spell chek turned off, intentionally.

Edited September 29, 2023 by difrangia

[jagman]

It was my understanding that car sales for 2022 were lower because of the chip shortage.  The Toyota service manager told me that his people were very busy because they had to pull chips from cars that were shipped complete to swap into cars sold off the lot.  Was this happening in your area?

[datzenmike]

8 hours ago, paradime said:

In 65' my mom got a new 2 door Dart with the slant 6 and a pushbutton 3 speed auto. Her next car was a true muscle car, 69 Ford Torino fastback with a 390 4 barrel and a C6 auto. As a kid, I knew mom shouldn't have that much car, but was damn glad she didn't know that. Today's muscle cars make that Torino look like a slant 6 Dart, but those days leave these days in their dust. 

 

My first car was my dad's '64 Polara slant six. It was 5 years old and in the year I had it I put new rings and bearings in it, (with help from my neighbor mentioned in my profile) a clutch, a 318 2bbl and dual exhaust on it I did myself. From 30 to 90 it was the equal of a friends 283 swapped 3 speed stick '66 Chevelle. Ahhh the days when you had no idea what couldn't be done. In high school a friend's mom would drive us around in a '54 Ford family car 'bomb'. It had 'Hollywood mufflers' on it and someone had converted it to three by the knee. We'd all yell for her to rev it out and she would often oblige... what a racket! She was so cool and knew how to drive stick.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

Proud for you Cali boys. DiFi can talk to Beelzebub about climate change. Damned shame the republic fell before this glorious event transpired. 

[paradime]

9 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

 

 

Toyota's sales

2022 = 222,216 Corolla , 295,201 Camry   Corolla cost 28 and Camry  cost 33k

2021 = 248,993 Corolla , 313,795 Camry

 

Tesla's sales

 2022 = 120,737 Model Y  Model Y cost 64k

2021 = 161,529 Model Y

 

 Tesla's stock is priced very high at 70 times earnings compared to Toyota at 12 times, the stock is cheaper and earns more per share, the cars are priced at half the model Y even with the subsidy's.

I don't understand the top seller unless the news is claiming that for EV's only.

I've driven a friends 3 and an X, they are fast but seemed odd to me and I didn't care for the charging wait.

It would take a lot of savings with the Tesla to overcome 30k difference in price and convenience of the petrol Toyota

When I was still working my commute was 55 miles each way, there was a guy in the lab that had some mitsu EV and would call in late regularly blaming the cars lack of charge, it didn't work for very long he was told to walk if it stopped.

 

All political crap aside, I totally agree that Tesla stock is wildly inflated, but where did you get these sales numbers? Seriously Oops, they're not even close to being accurate.

 

Rather than using BS news propaganda misleading the Brotherhood of Destruction, these figures are from multiple financial and industry analysis sources.

 

World wide, Tesla sold 747,500 Model Ys in 2022. That figure was a 91% increase over 2021, but it was still only 3rd place in the year-end global sales behind the RAV4 and the Corolla.

 

In the first quarter of 2023, the Model Y surpassed Toyota’s RAV4 and Corolla models to top global sales rankings, and as of July Q2, the Y's margin has grown. The total year end projected sales is 1.8 million vehicles. 

 

Q1 of 2023, Tesla recorded 181,000 car sold in the US,

229,000 in China.

94,696 in Europe, and 205,000 as of Q2

Projected year end total sale for Tesla is 1.8 million vehicles.

 

Objectively,  do I think their stock price is fair and accurate? No

Do I understand why investors are willing to pay that? Yes

Do I think the Dem's position on EVs stems from tech being one of their biggest donors? Abso-F'n- lutely.

Do I think the Rep's position on EVs stems from big oil being one of their biggest donors? Abso-F'n- lutely.

Does MSM spread party message propaganda 7/24? We all know they do, but most Americans want to believe their party's flavor of BS. Highway To Hell indeed.

[frankendat]

19 hours ago, paradime said:

Paradime overkill responce # 2,903

 

Although it's not likely for another 15 years, I know, and share the pain in watching Internal Combustion Engines fall to history. Still, I think saying this is just "electric bullshit" might be missing the industry's big picture of their bottom line.

 

As usual, if I want to know what's really going on with something, I follow the $ and here's what I learned in my research. Tesla made $81.5 billion in total revenues in 2022 on that BS, and in early 2023, their Model Y topped the Toyota Corolla to become the best selling vehicle on the planet. Being competitive in that market is not a choice, it's a matter of survival. 

 

Market analysts know that for massive ICE oriented car companies, the transition to electric will be expensive. Ford was smart enough to read the writing on the wall, so they're investing $50 billion on EV development through 2026. Ford is spending $3.9 billion on their first of 3 battery manufacturing plants. This will end their dependance on Chinese manufacturing, and with batteries making up 40% of Fords EV costs, making them in house will save them $billions in the long run, and make them far more competitive in the market. Ford has always taken a conservative management approach for their company. If you remember, Ford was the only US car Co who didn't need Bush and Obama's corporate bailout money. Later, they did take and paid back $5.9 billion in government loan for retooling to make more fuel-efficient cars.

 

In June 23' Ford’s Battery Joint Venture with SK Ontario got a $9.2 billion gov loan to build these three plants in Kentucky and Tennessee. What the anti EV propaganda left out is it's part of their $50B investment, and the estimated $4.5B in losses on EVs this year includes the cost of Ford's long term investment to make this transition. At the same time, their overall profits rose in 1st and 2nd quarter of 2023. Ford's stock was at an annual high, until in May 23' with the UAW Demands for a “Just Transition” to EVs, and the eventual strike this month to force their demands. They are in positive negotiations right now, Ford stock is already recovering, and closed up 1.37% today.  With a 5-year stock prognosis of +67.18%, the market understands where these losses are coming from, and can see that Ford is in very good shape for the foreseeable future. 

 

In preparing for the future, Ford stock climbed from a low of $11.05 in 2022 to $12.56 today, with a  5 year projection of +67.18%

 

Stuck in the ICE age, Toyota stock dropped from a high of $202.49 in 2022, to $162.42 today, with a  5 year projection of +19.22%.

 

If these figures aren't compelling, or not what you want to hear, sticking with media propaganda that supports your point of view is the best way to find the information you're looking for.

 

 

The figures presented make a good case for investing in the EV market to realize short term gains (short term being a decade) I consider EV's a fad. From your information it sounds like Ford has positioned itself to capitalize on this fad. EV's are part of what I call the "disposable" nation trend, currently embraced by First world nations. I prefer to own things built to last. My house is more than 100 years old and I have never owed a vehicle produced in the current century. I have not seen or read of any EV that could be driven by a father for twenty years and passed to a son. I do not see an abundance of Youtubes or websites with DIY tips to modify, service, or repair an EV. I have not found a realistic plan detailing where the power for these EV's will spring. As far as current technologies the only method that might have a chance is nuclear but building new nuclear power plants, is a hard sell to the masses and even if green lit today, would take a minimum of a decade to see one operational. There are practical, social, and governmental realities that will not just work themselves out. Right now EV's are "playing" and will continue to have benefits until they go from "playing" to a realistic and depended upon alternative transportation source. When the number of EV's start impacting power grids, the number of EV's in junkyards becomes extreme (not a great "used" market for cars you can't service or DIY) What about the massive number of people that can't afford a new car every decade? (or even new batteries?) Then the EV bubble is going to break. 

Invest, make a buck off the hype, but know the faster it becomes mainstream the faster it will fail. 

[bananahamuck]

 

[Ooph!]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

 

All political crap aside, I totally agree that Tesla stock is wildly inflated, but where did you get these sales numbers? Seriously Oops, they're not even close to being accurate.

 

Rather than using BS news propaganda misleading the Brotherhood of Destruction, these figures are from multiple financial and industry analysis sources.

 

World wide, Tesla sold 747,500 Model Ys in 2022. That figure was a 91% increase over 2021, but it was still only 3rd place in the year-end global sales behind the RAV4 and the Corolla.

 

In the first quarter of 2023, the Model Y surpassed Toyota’s RAV4 and Corolla models to top global sales rankings, and as of July Q2, the Y's margin has grown. The total year end projected sales is 1.8 million vehicles. 

 

Q1 of 2023, Tesla recorded 181,000 car sold in the US,

229,000 in China.

94,696 in Europe, and 205,000 as of Q2

Projected year end total sale for Tesla is 1.8 million vehicles.

 

Objectively,  do I think their stock price is fair and accurate? No

Do I understand why investors are willing to pay that? Yes

Do I think the Dem's position on EVs stems from tech being one of their biggest donors? Abso-F'n- lutely.

Do I think the Rep's position on EVs stems from big oil being one of their biggest donors? Abso-F'n- lutely.

Does MSM spread party message propaganda 7/24? We all know they do, but most Americans want to believe their party's flavor of BS. Highway To Hell indeed.

 

Those numbers came from the US market at https://carfigures.com

This article contains totals but is not divided among models and it states that GM is still number 1 overall  https://www.investors.com/news/us-auto-sales-q4-gm-ford-tesla-2023-outlook/

I found it difficult to find sales figures unless paying