Datsun original VS modified, what's worth more?

[fisch]

As a guy who is obsessed with cars of all sorts and auctions, I often her the saying that classic cars are only original once, and therefore worth more un-modified.

 

(I just watched that really nice SR 510 wagon sell on ebay for $8,300. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Datsun-510-034-Bluebird-034-wagon-with-High-performance-16-valve-engine-5speed-/251876564959?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=is2EFqPmAVy7fOQLqGbQSaJBdlE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Seems like a nice deal for that car.)

 

Do you think the same applies to Datsuns? I know it is a case by case basis, but in your observation, does a well done SR 510 sell for more that a l-16 original 510 that is just as nice, but stock? Other than SS stuff, we don't really have super rare engine options or things that can be identified by decoding vins, etc.)

 

I think anomalies like a 10,000 mi original paint 510 survivor are possibly an exception (Though we haven't seen many of those, lol!). I am thinking more about cars that have been restored both to the same level, both street cars. Same amount of doors. One a restomod: upgraded (SR, KA, VG, CA, FJ) engine, brakes, suspension, interior. The other stock or maybe restored with vintage era correct go-fast bits, but still the mighty L.

 

And in the future as non modified Datsuns get rarer and rarer, you think that will work to the favor of 'Stock', or not matter?

[67_1600]

My feeling is that at some point, a very nice original car will bring in more money than a nicely done swapped/modified car. I don't really see that too much yet, but it does seem like the gap is narrowing between the two. As you said, there will be fewer and fewer examples of original cars and there will always be buyers for them. I think the pool of buyers will increase and the pool of cars will definitely decrease, so it's bound to happen.

 

My car is mostly original and I plan on keeping it that way. I've swapped to ZX struts up front but nothing has been done that can't be reversed.

[mrbigtanker]

I agree.^^^^^^

[fisch]

My feeling is that at some point, a very nice original car will bring in more money than a nicely done swapped/modified car. I don't really see that too much yet, but it does seem like the gap is narrowing between the two. As you said, there will be fewer and fewer examples of original cars and there will always be buyers for them. I think the pool of buyers will increase and the pool of cars will definitely decrease, so it's bound to happen.

 

My car is mostly original and I plan on keeping it that way. I've swapped to ZX struts up front but nothing has been done that can't be reversed.

 

I was thinking the same thing. But the thing that makes me wonder is what I mentioned above, and that is that by decoding vins, muscle car guys can find out their cars came with rare engines and all sorts of other stuff. That makes it 'special' and not like every one else's car from the factory. Maybe if you have the original build sheet for your Datsun it may list things like bumper overriders, AC, Foglights, decal packages, etc. But by the Datsun's 510's core, you pretty much got the l-16.

 

However this would lead me to believe if you can get your hands on the vintage Datsun Competition catalog parts, you could up the anti for the non restomod 510.

[Gradyfest]

The thing about Datsuns is they were for a completely different market from new. Muscle cars were expensive back then and top of the line. Correct me if I'm wrong but Datsuns were known for being the cheap reliable "lower end" if you will. Datsuns got used and abused, and people didn't care about keeping them stock it seems. That and because they were so reliable, finding a stock one with anything considered low miles from a car back then will be worth way more than the modified ones in my opinion. I think of it just like all the Supras, STI's, and Evos that have been molested over the last decade by kids. Stock examples of those will be just like stock examples of muscle cars, worth way more. And lastly, I don't trust anybody else's work. I like to get something that hasn't been touched much besides from when it was put together at the factory. That alone ads value to collectors and guys like me.

[67_1600]

Even with highly collectible muscle cars, the build sheet or dealer invoice is going to contain a lot of information about the car that isn't available via the VIN tag or door tag. Yes, there were a lot of engine options along with some others that were part of either the VIN or door tag, but that's only part of the story. A car with everything matching (VIN, door tag) plus the build sheet/invoice is going to be more valuable than one without. While we didn't have as many options, having the original engine and everything else stock will add value to the right person. Having the invoice showing the different options will add to the value as well.

[DanielC]

Would you rather paint on a blank canvas, or on a piece of canvas that has had some really poor artwork on it?

[fisch]

Would you rather paint on a blank canvas, or on a piece of canvas that has had some really poor artwork on it?

Right, but what I am asking is two cars with the same exact level of detail, restoration, etc. Well documented, tons of pictures of the restore or mod. So the blank canvas idea doesn't quite apply. If anything imagine they were both masterpieces. But one is modern art and the other classical art.

[Mattndew76]

Its all subject to who you are appealing to. 

[fisch]

Its all subject to who you are appealing to.

 

Of course, one should always buy/build what they love. But for the sake of discussion, just wondering where y'all fell the trend is right now in general.

[bananahamuck]

Disc brakes,  elecrontic ignition and a 5speed 521 pickup is by far more driveable than a stock one hence it should bring higher money.   Yes i have owned and drove a stock 521 for more miles than most,, and have no problem adjusting brakes and points,,, it's just nice NOT to have to.

[Rhapakatui]

But are we buying the car to drive it? or to put in a glass box and point at as it's value increases?

 

I'd say the value of a stock vehicle will continue to increase.  Datsun or other.  A modified vehicle tends to be more enjoyable.

[dr.feltersnatch]

For me personally modified. Stock is boring.

[fisch]

Disc brakes, elecrontic ignition and a 5speed 521 pickup is by far more driveable than a stock one hence it should bring higher money. Yes i have owned and drove a stock 521 for more miles than most,, and have no problem adjusting brakes and points,,, it's just nice NOT to have to.

Fun discussion guys, thanks for playing along. And I totally hear you Banana. I think those mods would make a 521 worth more. Id pay more for one witth that done. Especially if upgrades were kept in the Nissan/Datsun family. Which begs the question as how much mod is too much mod? Which naturally comes down to the collector. Though for the purist, any mod is not original aka worth less.

 

I guess I am wondering if those who follow sales regularly have noticed a price difference? But I imagine, like me, as soon as we have a Datsun or two, we stop following sales as closely. And I imagine really nice stock examples done to the level of a really nice swap example, are pretty hard to find and compare.

[Dantheman]

All things evolve. In the past years porches 912's and 914/4's were over looked or bought and highly modified because they were cheap. A customer of mine who buys and sells vintage mercedes said that it is less common to find a low milage original car being a diesel for example because it was a common person car verses the high line sedan witch was owned and maintained by some one who had multiple cars. So in my opinion as stated in above posting, datsun was of a lower end of the market. As more time passes, finding an original or unrestored car will be worth much more because of the rare nature of it having survived the decades of perceived low value of the car. I personally would not cut up a clean bodied car for flares unless the car was badly rusted or damaged, but that's my opinion. The great thing about this whole thing is..... It's yours. Have fun. Are buying as an investment or a toy? I am in agreement with not altering anything that can be put back if I wish too. My 2 cents

[datson4life]

I just sold a fully clean stock 521 for alot more than a ka 521 that was also clean, the stock one sold way faster

 

 

 

 

I see it like wife hunting, u want a stock clean title low miles wife? Or salvage wife that has been thru many owners

 

 

 

Idk just my $.02

[TENDRIL]

As far as 510s go, I see modified sell for way more than an l series and quicker.

[TENDRIL]

But let's say you take dans 510 "Arthur" which is a primo car and have it duplicated except for the motor struts and brakes, ka/sr 4wheel disk brakes lowered with wheels.

 

I think Arthur original would sell for more or break even even though the modified one has more money into it

[paradime]

Stock vs mod. There's so much latitude and variables to that question. Year, model, JDM, condition, quality of the mods, on and on. You'd think a stock 68 510, or a Bluebird Coupe would fetch better money. Recently though, Guichi's tastefully modified Coupe sold for $40k on BAT. SR s15, full race suspension, Volk wheels, electric power assist rack & pinion steering, etc. The rest of the car was also in pristine condition down to the door stickers. Granted it was an immaculate resto-mod, but that's big hairy money. When will a stock Bluebird be worth that? I hope not soon.

[fisch]

But let's say you take dans 510 "Arthur" which is a primo car and have it duplicated except for the motor struts and brakes, ka/sr 4wheel disk brakes lowered with wheels.

 

I think Arthur original would sell for more or break even even though the modified one has more money into it

Great example, and maybe it would take a car like Dan's to meet a high level (20K) swap right now.

 

Interestingly I did a quick survey on ebay and on BaT to see prices of 510s. Were talking cars in nice daily status to restored. Not junkers or unfinished swaps. Not necessarily sold prices mind you, but a combo of sold and asking price. Just an unscientific feel.

 

THey seem about in the same price range for similar condition whether it is mod or stock(ish).  Though maybe a nudge to the swap costing more. A few L-series dimes dipped to 6k-ish while nice 'swaps' appeared steady at 8-15K and up. However for every 8K and up 'swap' I could find, I also found an 8-15K L-series to match it. (And low mile survivors in the 7-13K range, looking back to 2013. Tried not to go pre-Leno?) Again this was often asking price, not sold price.

 

But if someone is reaching for 20K+ it is usually a swap.

 

But what really surprised me is that there were WAY more l-series 510s for sale than other engine swaps. And I found pretty even amounts and even prices between l20 swaps and L16's. Most with suspension mods of the ZX sort. Makes sense for ease, but for some reason my impression is that there were more swaps out there of the SR, KA, variety than I saw, maybe because most are unfinished and in pieces (Or loved so much they aren't for sale)!

[danfiveten]

To bad ill never ever sell :)   I was reading this like i wont chime in, then i saw my name mentioned so its like ok. Gotta chime in.

 

I love both stock and modified.  Finding a stock 510 is hard, but finding a 510 thats been moded right is hard as well. Lets face it, there are a LOT of dipshits out there molesting the shit out of these cars, so even when modified, we have to fix their modifications and do it right.  I personally love both, Art is fun to cruise in, go to shows, and just enjoy on sunny days.  But purple (my lz 2.2 510) is fun to take out when by myself and drive like a fucking moron since i have no kids or wife in the car.    Im 50/50, stock has its pros, and modified has its pros.  So if you are looking at 2, i would take whichever has the most value to it / makes you excited.

[john510]

I would choose an unmolested bone stock car before a modified one,especially if the sale prices of the two were close.Originality is important with any classic automoblie.

[fisch]

To bad ill never ever sell :)   I was reading this like i wont chime in, then i saw my name mentioned so its like ok. Gotta chime in.

 

I love both stock and modified.  Finding a stock 510 is hard, but finding a 510 thats been moded right is hard as well. Lets face it, there are a LOT of dipshits out there molesting the shit out of these cars, so even when modified, we have to fix their modifications and do it right.  I personally love both, Art is fun to cruise in, go to shows, and just enjoy on sunny days.  But purple (my lz 2.2 510) is fun to take out when by myself and drive like a fucking moron since i have no kids or wife in the car.    Im 50/50, stock has its pros, and modified has its pros.  So if you are looking at 2, i would take whichever has the most value to it / makes you excited.

Thanks for chiming in Dan! We're talking 510s so there is no wrong answer here. And I think having one of each is the best way to go! I am actually curious to keep my new wagon totally stock, just to see what it is like. And I still have my LZ. But if I am going to put money into the wagon anyway, carb, brake and suspension upgrades may be the way to go.

[Jesse C.]

Rare is the person who has and keeps a 510 totally stock and I am grateful that some do, it is always good to have a reference point. Most have been modified to some degree, wheels, radios, carbs and so forth all the way up to total custom. 

But one also has to look at what mods have been done. Will and SR swap bring more than a built up L-20B with carbs? Or a VG conversion be more than a KA swap? 

I know that eventually it comes down to how well the car has been done and how far away it is from stock. 

 

Some cars are great deal when you look at not only the work, but, the parts involved. More and more cars are getting some pretty rare parts that where not easily available a few years back, such as grilles, tail lights and rims. In these cases it is the sum of the parts that make the car. 

 

So, in the end, it comes down to how much money you have and how much stuff you want on your car. Will it be a cheese pizza or a deluxe?

[qwik510]

If you look at the 240z, stock pristine examples are bringing more then modified cars.

 

When it comes to 510s, the modded cars are bringing more. Maybe someday this will change but with the 510 being the first true Japanese tuner car, and the fact is that modifications to a 510 bring out the best in this car, so most people will pay more for a a tastefully modded car over a stock one.

 

The 510 is much more enjoyable to drive with some mods.

 

As to which is best for you, is it an investment or a toy?