Zoning laws anyone won a fight

[frankendat]

I got suckered. I would use more colorful language, but there would be much.

 

It's bad.

 

I have been posting my new designs for a new structure design (while maintaining code compliance) because I need a new one every so many years. I've mentioned it before, but as a reminder I have had one of these on my property for the last 23 years. City Code came by and issued a citation today. 1. I can have a structure in my back yard but I can't have a car in it. 2. I cannot have carparts, non operational vehicles anywhere visible from anywhere outside my property and 3. I cannot work on vehicles anywhere visible INCLUDING from 2nd story condos (that they are building against my objections). It detracts from the beauty of the neighborhood and is an environmental hazard. So everyone understands, all this is happening because of what is in the back yard of my house and there is junk, because I like junk and its not in the street and not in anyone's way but mine. If  sheet steel and diesel weren't so expensive, I could afford a bulldozer. 

 

I have to meet with Planning and Zoning early next week, the penalty for non compliance is jail. 

 

 

[datzenmike]

I hear you. Get a copy of the law. It may be as simple as erecting a circus tent or covering with a tarp.

 

Obviously Idaho is being taken over by Californians. They fuck up and shit in their nest, don't like it, so they move farther north and repeat.

 

 

Erect a sign visible to the condo with a big middle finger. Or paint it on the top of your tarp. Light it up at night, like REALLY light it up with 'security lights'. Try being more of a cunt than you are. Get a revolving search light that sprays the condo. Or a flashing neon sign that says Suck My Richard.

[frankendat]

20 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I hear you. Get a copy of the law. It may be as simple as erecting a circus tent or covering with a tarp.

 

Obviously Idaho is being taken over by Californians. They fuck up and shit in their nest, don't like it, so they move farther north and repeat.

 

 

Erect a sign visible to the condo with a big middle finger. Or paint it on the top of your tarp. Light it up at night, like REALLY light it up with 'security lights'. Try being more of a cunt than you are. Get a revolving search light that sprays the condo. Or a flashing neon sign that says Suck My Richard.

If I put up a fence to the max height allowed 6ft and someone builds a two story (the ones being built are 3 stories) and I am in my fenced/enclosed yard. Why is it my problem that they can see what I'm doing, be it working on a car or getting funky with the old lady and not their problem for being a peeping tom? Maybe I can get a fence painted to look like a bunch of old rusty cars with old dudes working on them.

[frankendat]

For me it feels just like the gun laws, because I did get a copy of the law and some of my things could be considered violations and if so, they have been violations for more than 2 decades. Today was the first time I have ever seen a neighborhood compliance officer, but said he has been on the job for 14 years and he is enforcing the law now. So, as with everything, there is what you know, what you don't know and what you don't know you don't know and the last one is the ass biter.

[frankendat]

Can't decide whether I am getting either calmer or more pissed off. No new news until next week, so I am stewing. I found laws completely on my side, and laws they can twist. So calmer, when I read the law, then pissed off because why did I get visited by the officer and "shook down", if it is such a close call. It will come down to who is judging, which runs with my experience and understanding, for justice, either you know or you own the judge.

[datzenmike]

Two words for when nothing is done for years and then suddenly there is a visit: Complaint Driven. Probably one of your (new) neighbors.

 

My new neighbor parked his boat and trailer out front with a for sale sign. He parked it lengthwise so three parking spaces out front were used up which was fine, but then months later he became a jerk forcing me to be one too, so I called by-law enforcement. It's illegal where I am to have a trailer on a provincial road allowance without it being attached to a vehicle. Withing the week it was moved into his driveway.

[KELMO]

On 8/23/2024 at 7:40 PM, frankendat said:

Today was the first time I have ever seen a neighborhood compliance officer, but said he has been on the job for 14 years and he is enforcing the law now. 

I'm not a lawyer, politician, or even a very smart guy but, why in the Direct Fuck (as DM would say) is this guy who has been on the job for 14 years just now getting around to you? If the law has not been enforced for the past twenty years, I would think that the guvmint entity has been derelict in their duty and has set a precedent of nonenforcement. Maybe this could work in your favor. Also, when were these laws enacted? After you purchased the property? These are questions I would ask a lawyer and see if it leads them down a path.

Other than that, Like Mike said, be obnoxious as fuck and stay within the law.

[john510]

Maybe not a fight necessarily but a citation I received for my boat's trailer tongue being over dirt and not a "finished surface" as they described it. The rest of the trailer was over brick. Three feet of trailer was over dirt. This was on my property and about 7 or 8' from the street. I called the city and asked WTF ? The boat had been parked like that for 25 years. What I did to clear it was put the boat on my front lawn and take pictures of where the boat was. Then drove the neighborhood taking pictures of motorhomes, boats, travel trailers, construction trailers, dead cars etc. I take this stuff to the city office building get my citation signed off first and then show these pictures to the guy at the desk and ask if any of these people were cited because they're storing their stuff on the street not on their property. He says no and I ask him why me then ? He can't answer that. I told him my boat is now back where it's been for 25 years and If I get cited I guess somebody's got some work to do citing everybody else. I never got bothered again. Now the boat's parked on nice concrete I had done without a permit. 

[MikeRL411]

On 8/23/2024 at 4:46 PM, frankendat said:

I got suckered. I would use more colorful language, but there would be much.

 

It's bad.

 

I have been posting my new designs for a new structure design (while maintaining code compliance) because I need a new one every so many years. I've mentioned it before, but as a reminder I have had one of these on my property for the last 23 years. City Code came by and issued a citation today. 1. I can have a structure in my back yard but I can't have a car in it. 2. I cannot have carparts, non operational vehicles anywhere visible from anywhere outside my property and 3. I cannot work on vehicles anywhere visible INCLUDING from 2nd story condos (that they are building against my objections). It detracts from the beauty of the neighborhood and is an environmental hazard. So everyone understands, all this is happening because of what is in the back yard of my house and there is junk, because I like junk and its not in the street and not in anyone's way but mine. If  sheet steel and diesel weren't so expensive, I could afford a bulldozer. 

 

I have to meet with Planning and Zoning early next week, the penalty for non compliance is jail. 

 

 

 

Adverse possession! You have occupied your back yard with these items for the last 23 years  without complaint. Eat s&&T!

[MikeRL411]

Whenever any homeowner in my neighborhood applies to add a second story I protest! I insist that if I want to add a second story in the future any view impairment objections should only apply to the existing first story view. I am routinely turned down but have made my point in the public record! 

[bananahamuck]

Buried in the lawyer speak documents known as RCWs  Thurston county has this written

 

"Enthusiast vehicle in the current state of restoration". 

but no actual description of what that means. 

We have Smokey Yunick-ed the shit outta that,

 

We went through this in 2003 , we did end up getting rid of over a hundred cars that didn't fall under that cryptic sentence 

 

That and about 150 yards of gravel 

 

Edited August 25 by bananahamuck

[frankendat]

6 hours ago, KELMO said:

I'm not a lawyer, politician, or even a very smart guy but, why in the Direct Fuck (as DM would say) is this guy who has been on the job for 14 years just now getting around to you? If the law has not been enforced for the past twenty years, I would think that the guvmint entity has been derelict in their duty and has set a precedent of nonenforcement. Maybe this could work in your favor. Also, when were these laws enacted? After you purchased the property? These are questions I would ask a lawyer and see if it leads them down a path.

Other than that, Like Mike said, be obnoxious as fuck and stay within the law.

I'm trying. It makes no sense to you or I or other reasonable people because it isn't. After researching, this is what I have found out (no promise that it is right) Lawyers want a couple grand to look at it and it goes up from there.

 

I whined about the massive multi million dollar condos they are putting in behind me. I went to all the court dates to stop that and big money kicked my (and the whole little neighborhoods ass) The condos have been under construction and the enforcement division received an "anonymous" complaint. Who wants to bet it was the developer? 

 

I've been looking through old photos and google maps and have pictures that show my property and the way I use it, has been the same since 2006/2007. I have pictures that show the property was the same from 2001-2005 but these are photos of parties in our backyard. You can make out that the property was the same, but it is not as clear. 

 

According to the law-private citizens can lose property rights through inaction, but the government cannot. I found that in multiple places, including the United States Supreme Court.

 

If only I was a rich person (the people the law cares about) then I would have a case, because I do have a case. Other states have put a limitation on enforcement of these ordinances. And again, there is a limit if you're a regular person. It's 20 years. If someone uses your driveway, front yard, cabin for 20 years without your permission and you never told them they could not, then it is their driveway. The Code dickheads are saying that even though I have been using my back yard as a driveway for over 20 years (indisputable proof for 18) if I keep doing so, they will arrest me and/or take everything out of my yard and lien my house to cover the cost.

 

Since I am not a rich person, I am fairly fucked. I am going to try to stop this. There is a chance this could be fixed with a fence. My retaining wall is shot and if they say I can't put in a wood fence when I have a cement retaining wall-- there are funky historic district rules about what you can build (another reason why I don't have a shop and work on my rigs in the backyard). But, if I can put in a wood fence, then I could get out of this for under 2k (if I can get an extension and do the work myself) That's money out of savings and the datsun fund, but it looks like the best option. I'll know more this week. 2k is my entire (additional funds) resource so if they want more, hopefully a second best option will present, besides investing the money in steel plate for my lawn tractor. 

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

Maybe not a fight necessarily but a citation I received for my boat's trailer tongue being over dirt and not a "finished surface" as they described it. The rest of the trailer was over brick. Three feet of trailer was over dirt. This was on my property and about 7 or 8' from the street. I called the city and asked WTF ? The boat had been parked like that for 25 years. What I did to clear it was put the boat on my front lawn and take pictures of where the boat was. Then drove the neighborhood taking pictures of motorhomes, boats, travel trailers, construction trailers, dead cars etc. I take this stuff to the city office building get my citation signed off first and then show these pictures to the guy at the desk and ask if any of these people were cited because they're storing their stuff on the street not on their property. He says no and I ask him why me then ? He can't answer that. I told him my boat is now back where it's been for 25 years and If I get cited I guess somebody's got some work to do citing everybody else. I never got bothered again. Now the boat's parked on nice concrete I had done without a permit. 

I don't think the developer selling the million plus condos will let this go.

[frankendat]

47 minutes ago, bananahamuck said:

Buried in the lawyer speak documents known as RCWs  Thurston county has this written

 

"Enthusiast vehicle in the current state of restoration". 

but no actual description of what that means. 

We have Smokey Yunick-ed the shit outta that,

 

We went through this in 2003 , we did end up getting rid of over a hundred cars that didn't fall under that cryptic sentence 

 

That and about 150 yards of gravel 

 

They have something similar for the county. I am trying to find one for the city, but it is not looking good and I won't know until I can get into the courthouse.

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, MikeRL411 said:

 

Adverse possession! You have occupied your back yard with these items for the last 23 years  without complaint. Eat s&&T!

YES but no-adverse possession is not applicable to the government.

[wayno]

I had the city telling me I had to remove this/that at one point, I looked at the code guy and said over and over, "that was there before the city annexed my property", finally he sighed and said something about buying a permit for an existing pond I have in my front yard, I asked how much would that cost, he said something about under $30.00, I thought is this worth being extorted/robbed to get the guy to go away, I decided give them the tribute and went to the code enforcement building to buy the permit, I put my name in and waited to be helped, others came in and were helped and left but I was still waiting, close to an hour later(I was very mad by then), I was getting ready to complain about not being helped and that jerk came out of a door across from me, came over and said he had talked it over with his boss(likely meaning they had checked the microfilms and seen it was there before the city had annexed me and they did not have the right to do anything to me), he said they were dropping the requirement for the permit.

 

I have not believed anything the city has said to me since, they threaten people to get their way, keep in mind that there is no new development in my area, the developers are likely the ones complaining about your property, unless you have the money to protect yourself(a lawyer), you will be threatened(nice word for what is really happening) until you comply, what is very sad is this is getting to be the normal with the scum(swamp creature) running this country right now.

[john510]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

I don't think the developer selling the million plus condos will let this go.

Maybe it's time to clean up a little then ? Or tell them it's art work. And if you feel you just won't win in this situation be the biggest asshole you possibly can. Parties, loud music, American flags, Confederate flags or best of all the biggest Trump flag you can find. 

[Ooph!]

Hire the Lawyer and stop chewing on your own liver.

If he can be a thorn in their butt, and at least slow the process down, and be a buffer between you and them its worth the 2 grand

Edited August 26 by Ooph!

[thisismatt]

[frankendat]

On 8/25/2024 at 4:51 PM, wayno said:

I had the city telling me I had to remove this/that at one point, I looked at the code guy and said over and over, "that was there before the city annexed my property", finally he sighed and said something about buying a permit for an existing pond I have in my front yard, I asked how much would that cost, he said something about under $30.00, I thought is this worth being extorted/robbed to get the guy to go away, I decided give them the tribute and went to the code enforcement building to buy the permit, I put my name in and waited to be helped, others came in and were helped and left but I was still waiting, close to an hour later(I was very mad by then), I was getting ready to complain about not being helped and that jerk came out of a door across from me, came over and said he had talked it over with his boss(likely meaning they had checked the microfilms and seen it was there before the city had annexed me and they did not have the right to do anything to me), he said they were dropping the requirement for the permit.

 

I have not believed anything the city has said to me since, they threaten people to get their way, keep in mind that there is no new development in my area, the developers are likely the ones complaining about your property, unless you have the money to protect yourself(a lawyer), you will be threatened(nice word for what is really happening) until you comply, what is very sad is this is getting to be the normal with the scum(swamp creature) running this country right now.

your assessment is spot on. I caught two lies so far, seven still stand. Funny, this is like pulling teeth for me, but they keep making threats and adding up fines, which costs them nothing.

[frankendat]

On 8/25/2024 at 5:13 PM, john510 said:

Maybe it's time to clean up a little then ? Or tell them it's art work. And if you feel you just won't win in this situation be the biggest asshole you possibly can. Parties, loud music, American flags, Confederate flags or best of all the biggest Trump flag you can find. 

It's not that it isn't clean, not to normal people. I have a stacked on stingers pile of about a dozen pressure treated 1X6. A stacked and banded on stingers 8 metal 1X6, a 1984 Datsun king cab under a car canopy, a john deere 214 lawn tractor, a stacked pile of pavers, a stacked pile of 1-5/8 galvanized top rail (about 300ft) and more, but it isn't thrown about and it is not junk.BUT junk is one of  the citations and "inoperable vehicle storage on unimproved surface" is another. One man's junk is another mans treasure, just not to rich people

[frankendat]

You live long enough, you see things you never imagined. I met a smart city bureaucrat manager who spoke in broken English. I realize that such a combination of qualities is possible, but I wouldn't have believed it, if I hadn't experienced it. 

 

I spent a day in the law library and was prepared to fight. The cop was hard nosed and wrote seven citations, I knew that I could beat half of them and once on a roll the other half could fall. But, my roll was quashed. I'm talking to the city cops supervisor and I start dismantling one of the charges, dude stops me, "Which of the citations might be legit?" I picked two, clarifying that I was not admitting to wrong doing, but compliance with the chosen would not be a major imposition. He picks one, of the others and said he could see it was unnecessary. Then he asked "30 days enough time to fix the two you chose?" I say "yea". He says, "Ok, do that, I'll come back in a month, if you have done what you said, we'll talk about next steps. If you haven't there will be a problem. Good?" "Good" I say.  

 

Realize, the original citations were written as 10 days to comply or arrested for non compliance, fine or fine plus jail, so 30 days sounded sweet and removing the pressure of the 10 days felt sweet (weekend counted and I was 5 days deep)

 

I actually felt better, until it started to sink in, my overall situation hasn't changed. I still have pending misdemeanor (up to $1000 fine and 6 months in jail each) citations and that slick bureaucrat manager worked it as he did me a favor. Holy shit. I think I might have been fucked. The citations that could cause me the greatest difficulty remain pending. The manager got me to comply and feel good about it, while not giving much. Let me rephrase, "I know I got fucked."

What i might come to hate, but can respect, is even in retrospect I can't figure out a way the situation could have been handled differently, especially, given my monetary situation. The only other avenue, seems to have been "Nothing is even close to legit, I want a trial, talk to my lawyer" and I would have been arrested. I don't have bail or lawyer money, no big deal, no way they would hold more than 24hrs on a non violent misdemeanor and then I would qualify for a public defender. I would accept that road if forced, but the manager wasn't forcing and I took the out. Maybe the con was making me feel like I had a choice. 

[bottomwatcher]

3 hours ago, frankendat said:

You live long enough, you see things you never imagined. I met a smart city bureaucrat manager who spoke in broken English. I realize that such a combination of qualities is possible, but I wouldn't have believed it, if I hadn't experienced it. 

 

I spent a day in the law library and was prepared to fight. The cop was hard nosed and wrote seven citations, I knew that I could beat half of them and once on a roll the other half could fall. But, my roll was quashed. I'm talking to the city cops supervisor and I start dismantling one of the charges, dude stops me, "Which of the citations might be legit?" I picked two, clarifying that I was not admitting to wrong doing, but compliance with the chosen would not be a major imposition. He picks one, of the others and said he could see it was unnecessary. Then he asked "30 days enough time to fix the two you chose?" I say "yea". He says, "Ok, do that, I'll come back in a month, if you have done what you said, we'll talk about next steps. If you haven't there will be a problem. Good?" "Good" I say.  

 

Realize, the original citations were written as 10 days to comply or arrested for non compliance, fine or fine plus jail, so 30 days sounded sweet and removing the pressure of the 10 days felt sweet (weekend counted and I was 5 days deep)

 

I actually felt better, until it started to sink in, my overall situation hasn't changed. I still have pending misdemeanor (up to $1000 fine and 6 months in jail each) citations and that slick bureaucrat manager worked it as he did me a favor. Holy shit. I think I might have been fucked. The citations that could cause me the greatest difficulty remain pending. The manager got me to comply and feel good about it, while not giving much. Let me rephrase, "I know I got fucked."

What i might come to hate, but can respect, is even in retrospect I can't figure out a way the situation could have been handled differently, especially, given my monetary situation. The only other avenue, seems to have been "Nothing is even close to legit, I want a trial, talk to my lawyer" and I would have been arrested. I don't have bail or lawyer money, no big deal, no way they would hold more than 24hrs on a non violent misdemeanor and then I would qualify for a public defender. I would accept that road if forced, but the manager wasn't forcing and I took the out. Maybe the con was making me feel like I had a choice. 

Sounds like whenever I go to buy a new phone. You know you are going to get fucked. The salesman wings numbers, plans, free phone, free upgrade, carryover data, shared data, whatever and you walk out feeling you got a good deal only knowing in the back of your mind you just got fucked! You just can figure out how at the moment but you know you got fucked. Fuckers!

[iceman510]

17 hours ago, frankendat said:

Then he asked "30 days enough time to fix the two you chose?" I say "yea". He says, "Ok, do that, I'll come back in a month, if you have done what you said, we'll talk about next steps. If you haven't there will be a problem. Good?" "Good" I say.  

 

 

Make an effort and do something, do what you said.  He left it open when he said talk about next steps.  Try and make them happy without totally inconveniencing yourself.

[john510]

How about some pictures of this stuff they're complaining about ?