destruction of america

[Jesse C.]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 

I saw the movie when it came out in the early '80s. Two things...

 

1/ Yes I know he was a pacifist so I'm a shoe-in for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

2/ I was paying homage to Fight Club. Surely you've seen it?

 

 

Gandhi was extremely long at almost 200 minutes and there were no car chases. I remember thinking that India must be a beautiful country.

 

 

 

[paradime]

9 hours ago, frankendat said:

Rebellion and retaliation spring from irrational, unreasonable, or misunderstood punishment. Belief that you are allowed or commanded to harm others in the name of an unseen all powerful master or face eternal punishment is irrational and unreasonable. Even belief that you must keep silent and passively support torturers, rapists and thugs or be subject to metaphysical reckoning is irrational and unreasonable.

Achieve a compromise, explain the expected behavior, provide examples, go door to door to insure the message has been spread. Do this exercise, that has been performed by the people of Gaza many times before. But, this time have some fucking resolve. 

If parameters have been deliberated, decided, land allocated, elders consulted and information publicized, then any organization, group or individual, refusing to undertake the political process for change and attempting reform through violence, intimidation, or manipulation is irrational and unreasonable, subject to reform by overwhelming punishment. 

No, I do not want to jaunt off into the theories and allegations against our Presidents. 

The evidence, both current and historical, indicates peace in unlikely because of irrational and unreasonable belief structures. These buildings of belief have stood for centuries and in my life there have been no great gains in knocking them down or modifying them to include other ideas. Unfortunately, resources and the inter contentedness of the modern world, has made it impossible to completely separate the interests of the USA from the politics (and thereby the beliefs) of the Middle East.

While any system of knowledge that predicates itself on the lack thereof, i.e. faith, is subject to scrutiny, Israel/Jews have been an ally to the West and to the USA and willing to temper fundamentalists, Pakistan/Arabs have not. 

I write the same things on this subject again and again because it is all the same and I no longer care to "solve" it. Much like why the atomic bomb was employed, the cost in lives and dollars is too high to continue to send our soldiers to root around and play shoot/don't shoot, with live ammo. Overwhelming punishment is my compromise position, if unsuccessful other avenues will present. 

So you would beat all your children black and blue for one's F'ed up behavior? Is that rational, or reasonable, like killing 30K Palestinians for what Hamas did? Starting in the late 70s, Israel used US backing to expand Jewish settlements into Gaza's DMZ putting their own people in danger. Would you consider that F'ed up behavior or an ulterior agenda? There was no punishment by the West, which led to Fatah's F'ed up terrorist attacks. Now from the outside looking in, ask yourself, if Israel has one of the strongest intel apparatus in the Mid East, how did they miss the entire 9/7 preparation and attack, or is there an ulterior agenda? Guilty for being quiet, you and I both know what happens to Palestinians who speak out against Hamas.

[datzenmike]

Been asking myself the same for months. How did the Mossad/IDF not have an inkling that something was up? and why was there a concert just 4 km from the fence? Not very prudent. I easily walk 8k a day about 2 1/2 hours at a leisurely pace. Still a good excuse for righteous retaliation and possible final solution to the Palestinian problem. 

[frankendat]

7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

I saw the movie when it came out in the early '80s. Two things...

 

1/ Yes I know he was a pacifist so I'm a shoe-in for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

2/ I was paying homage to Fight Club. Surely you've seen it?

 

 

Gandhi was extremely long at almost 200 minutes and there were no car chases. I remember thinking that India must be a beautiful country.

Gandhi was long and not my kind of movie, but I enjoyed it and took away some valuable philosophy. Dated a girl who was into eastern religions and she went on a pilgrimage of sorts to India. She didn't enjoy it. The cast system is very real and the poor are extremely poor and mistreated. The rich areas are overindulgent and beautiful the rest of the country is filled with filth, disease and smells bad.    

[frankendat]

7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

I saw the movie when it came out in the early '80s. Two things...

 

1/ Yes I know he was a pacifist so I'm a shoe-in for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

2/ I was paying homage to Fight Club. Surely you've seen it?

 

 

Gandhi was extremely long at almost 200 minutes and there were no car chases. I remember thinking that India must be a beautiful country.

I recognized the Fight Club quote, of course it is one of my favorites. Awesome movie, Awful ending. I watch it the same way I watch Speilburgs ending to A.I. Cut off the last 10-15min. (Stop Fight Club before it is decided Brad Pitt isn't real, Stop A.I. after the suicide.)

[frankendat]

6 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

 

I missed that scene

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

So you would beat all your children black and blue for one's F'ed up behavior? Is that rational, or reasonable, like killing 30K Palestinians for what Hamas did? Starting in the late 70s, Israel used US backing to expand Jewish settlements into Gaza's DMZ putting their own people in danger. Would you consider that F'ed up behavior or an ulterior agenda? There was no punishment by the West, which led to Fatah's F'ed up terrorist attacks. Now from the outside looking in, ask yourself, if Israel has one of the strongest intel apparatus in the Mid East, how did they miss the entire 9/7 preparation and attack, or is there an ulterior agenda? Guilty for being quiet, you and I both know what happens to Palestinians who speak out against Hamas.

This is not an uncommon problem. An infraction has been committed e.g. a window is broken, there is a baseball inside the house. 3 children are outside and baseball equipment on the ground, but no baseball. You ask the children, who broke the window? All claim ignorance. You know what happens to snitches. How do you proceed? One option is to punish all 3 children equally either as a method to apply pressure until the perpetrator is revealed, or as a final disposition believing that there is some degree of culpability in all of the children, through action or lack of action (not speaking up to identify the perpetrator) 

But, this is not a broken window problem, this is a matter of life and death. If a Palestinian has direct knowledge of a Hamas attack and takes no action to stop it, then they are complicit. Not to the level of demanding punishment or sanction, but exceeding the threshold for consideration as "innocent civilians". 

[john510]

15 hours ago, paradime said:

 Because stale propaganda makes you an authority on Muslims? Maybe I didn't completely understand what you're responded to either.  

That's propaganda ? I call it reality. If terrorist attacks, the threats they make and the things they say are meaningless to you I don't know what to say. You have to know what's happened to France, Great Britain, Ireland and Scotland.  You're a Palestinian sympathizer that refuses to acknowledge what started this fight back up. And yes we know it's been going on forever. It stops and then somebody decides to start it again for some crazy reason. 

Edited May 24 by john510

[john510]

14 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

dMike said it was a genocide

Thank You

[IZRL]

6 minutes ago, frankendat said:

This is not an uncommon problem. An infraction has been committed e.g. a window is broken, there is a baseball inside the house. 3 children are outside and baseball equipment on the ground, but no baseball. You ask the children, who broke the window? All claim ignorance. You know what happens to snitches. How do you proceed? One option is to punish all 3 children equally either as a method to apply pressure until the perpetrator is revealed, or as a final disposition believing that there is some degree of culpability in all of the children, through action or lack of action (not speaking up to identify the perpetrator) 

If in this theoretical conundrum the protagonists were myself and two of my friends when we were kids, and my mother was the one responsible for determining who the perp was. 

 

I'd say she wouldn't waste her time asking questions and analyzing theories trying to solve the mystery. She'd beat my ass just for being within a 100 yard radius of the broken glass and the baseball equipment. Guilty by association 😆. Parents were tough on us but I ain't complaining.. I'm actually thankful for it.

40 minutes ago, frankendat said:

If a Palestinian has direct knowledge of a Hamas attack and takes no action to stop it, then they are complicit. Not to the level of demanding punishment or sanction, but exceeding the threshold for consideration as "innocent civilians". 

This is where the lines get blurry as a majority of Palestinians side with Hamas on many things including the Oct 7 attacks.

[datzenmike]

2 hours ago, frankendat said:

This is not an uncommon problem. An infraction has been committed e.g. a window is broken, there is a baseball inside the house. 3 children are outside and baseball equipment on the ground, but no baseball. You ask the children, who broke the window? All claim ignorance. You know what happens to snitches. How do you proceed? One option is to punish all 3 children equally either as a method to apply pressure until the perpetrator is revealed, or as a final disposition believing that there is some degree of culpability in all of the children, through action or lack of action (not speaking up to identify the perpetrator)...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, IZRL said:

If in this theoretical conundrum the protagonists were myself and two of my friends when we were kids, and my mother was the one responsible for determining who the perp was. 

 

I'd say she wouldn't waste her time asking questions and analyzing theories trying to solve the mystery. She'd beat my ass just for being within a 100 yard radius of the broken glass and the baseball equipment. Guilty by association 😆. Parents were tough on us but I ain't complaining.. I'm actually thankful for it...

 

 

There is a third scenario. Your child has been taught to take responsibility for his actions. The punishment fits the 'crime' which is just an accident. As to the other two, being punished for someone else's 'crime,' unfairly I might add, might lead to rebellion and acting out mentioned earlier. What might the take away from this be for a child just learning? That justice meted out is never fair? Doesn't even care if you are innocent? Is more interested in punishment?  

[IZRL]

45 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

There is a third scenario. Your child has been taught to take responsibility for his actions. The punishment fits the 'crime' which is just an accident. As to the other two, being punished for someone else's 'crime,' unfairly I might add, might lead to rebellion and acting out mentioned earlier. What might the take away from this be for a child just learning? That justice meted out is never fair? Doesn't even care if you are innocent? Is more interested in punishment?

First off I'm talking about the mid 80s with a pair of old school mexican parents. So right off the bat you eliminate eye to eye conversations between son and parents in situations like this. Also eliminates timeouts and groundings. That was a whites only punishment. Different times. 

 

Secondly in my eyes this isn't unjust punishment. Everyone in the group agreed to play ball around windows. So you're all responsible in my eyes. You drive the murderer to where he killed his victim. You're also responsible.  Maybe in a time where a majority of kids get grounded instead, you wouldn't as much of a hard time with this.

Edited May 25 by IZRL

[datzenmike]

So if he takes the bus you kill the bus driver too? lol just kidding. In grade school there were kids that got the belt, I was glad I had my dad. One kid on the farm had a hidden dugout or bunker. If he could get out of the house in time and get to it and hide it he was safe from his dad. He's sneak home after dark. Many years later, reminiscing, I told my dad who was friends with his dad. He said " I never knew that about him" 

[frankendat]

45 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

So if he takes the bus you kill the bus driver too? lol just kidding. In grade school there were kids that got the belt, I was glad I had my dad. One kid on the farm had a hidden dugout or bunker. If he could get out of the house in time and get to it and hide it he was safe from his dad. He's sneak home after dark. Many years later, reminiscing, I told my dad who was friends with his dad. He said " I never knew that about him" 

I was one who got the belt and when I was around 25-30 I apologized to my father for being the kind of ass who required a belt. By 30-35, I couldn't believe how easy he went on me and if I had been beaten to hospitalization I still would have been the one who needed to apologize. 

 

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 

 

 

There is a third scenario. Your child has been taught to take responsibility for his actions. The punishment fits the 'crime' which is just an accident. As to the other two, being punished for someone else's 'crime,' unfairly I might add, might lead to rebellion and acting out mentioned earlier. What might the take away from this be for a child just learning? That justice meted out is never fair? Doesn't even care if you are innocent? Is more interested in punishment?  

Not applicable. The only attempt at a "just" punishment for the crime of murder is death and even death fails to even the scales when multiple are killed.  (death also fails as it excuses intent).

 

My scenario was in regard to the current condition in the Middle East, not on "accidents".

 

As far as the other two being punished for someone else's crime, they are not. The guilty party is being punished and the others are being punished as accomplices for refusing to identify the guilty. The standard when I was a child: To allow a known falsehood stand as truth is to be guilty of the lie. But, this is a lofty goal for adults.

[frankendat]

4 hours ago, IZRL said:

This is where the lines get blurry as a majority of Palestinians side with Hamas on many things including the Oct 7 attacks.

Interesting. I would say that is where it becomes clear.

[IZRL]

29 minutes ago, frankendat said:

Interesting. I would say that is where it becomes clear.

Right, but I'm talking to all the pro Palestine peeps. It's like are civilians really civilians?

[bottomwatcher]

Man I got the leather belt, yardstick and wooden spoon. Not on the ass but the back of the legs. Only when I deserved though and I am thankfull to have parents that cared enough to set me straight. Anyways the Palestinians live in an open sewer of a country and spend all of thier money on rockets and weapons while begging the rest of the world to feed them. Continously shooting rockets then complaining that they are somehow being treated unjustly for thier terrorist ways. They can't seem to figure out quit fucking with your neighbor and your life won't be shit. No other Muslim country wants to take in these refugees because they know what they would be getting. I am surprised Biden hasn't seized on the opportunity to show the world what a caring country we are and open the floodgates for free food and housing for Palestinians. Maybe he isn't even that stupid. Hamas poked the Bear one too many times and apparently the previous responses by isreal were not strong enough. 

[Duncan]

If the protestors really wanted to stop the attacks, why aren't they insisting Hamas release the hostages?

 

Why aren't the actual Palestinian people doing something about this?

 

Bottomwatcher: Yes, Biden is that stupid, and they have been floating the idea of taking in Palestinian refugees, unbelieveable as it may seem..

 

 

 

 

[Duncan]

Saw this headline and thought it was funny as hell...

 

‘Star Wars’ creator slams critics who complain saga isn’t diverse enough: ‘Most of the people are aliens’

[datzenmike]

Saw the original when it came out. I liked it. Never went back for another. They should have quit when they were ahead.

 

[Ooph!]

[datzenmike]

Can't argue that.

[frankendat]

9 hours ago, Ooph! said:

Please any alt (either side) kidnap any female democrat quasi leader and drop them unescorted into a fundamentalist controlled Palestine settlement...Please

[ratpatrol66]

Why didn't you include these two cunts??? WAIT THIS IS JUST ABOUT CRAZY CUNTS!!! 

Edited May 26 by ratpatrol66