Snake pit - rhino built

[datzenmike]

 

Harlow donated it to the Canby truck and said it was out of a 79 620, but I'm not sure if he pulled it himself of was told that when he got it from somewhere. I plan on changing the covers on the 720 trans and that trans so I can still have my shorty fit the 720 with the lz.

 

The '78-'79 620 truck 5 speeds would have a top gear switch and California trucks would also have a neutral switch in '79. Possibly a '77 5 speed they only had the reverse switch I believe..

 

The '79 620 only came with a wide ratio gear set while the '77-'78 were mid ratio. Mark the input and output shafts, place in first gear and turn twenty times while counting the output. 

 

5.5 output turns.... wide ratio

6 output turns......... mid ratio

 

Hey after 35 years? things get swapped.

[Rhino13]

So we got the head all torn down, I'll post up my pictures after work. There's one slightly bent exhaust valve, so I'm getting another from Hogie to complete the head work.

 

There were 3 bolts broken off in the block for the front cover. We got two of them out with little effort, but the third one broke our bolt extractor inside. So we tried using small bits to drill around that, then one of the bits broke inside. We actually got a stronger but that did go through the bit, but then we had a punch break in one of the holes. Luckily the stronger but mostly took care of that, but because we redrilled and worked with it so much the hole is now way bigger than it should be but only about 1/8 deep. As far as we could tell all of our small holes are within the threads, but every bit we've tried on that extractor in the middle just ended up getting dull. The motor was together as a z22 with all 3 broken bolts and it ran fine and didn't show any signs of leaking oil, besides for a spot on the back of the pan that was loose... So I'm considering putting it together and using a lot of rtv along that section like they did before.

I'm concerned it'll leak because it's the bolt above the oil pump, but at this point I'm also concerned with what will happen if we keep trying to get that bolt out. I do have another z22 block I could clean up and put all of my new parts in, but the cylinder walls feel slightly pitted so it'd be better to bore it. But if I did that I'd have to kiss driving it to either show goodbye. A bolt can sure make you feel defeated.

[Rhino13]

Had to post one of this up for now

 

You can see what was 3 holes around the sides, the actually hole is dead center. I'm pretty worried to put together a motor with all new parts and have this to worry about. I'm just totally stumped at this point. It was going so well before the extractor broke, it's only gotten worse from there.

[Draker]

Easy-outs are pretty worthless. Chinese ones end up like this more often than not.

[uberkevin]

That's a bolt hole??

 

 

Also you may have to find a different size bearing when you change that front transmission case... maybe.

[Rhino13]

That's a bolt hole??

 

 

Also you may have to find a different size bearing when you change that front transmission case... maybe.

Sadly it is a bolt hole... The easy out actually did work on one other bolt, but we drilled it to where it was almost just threads, which we should've done on this one originally. I'm kicking myself for this now but if nothing else it's a good learning experience to just stop when you doing know what you're doing haha. There's some things you really can't figure out on your own, this is one of them for me. I'm going to talk to the machinist I work by and see if he can just do it for me, since he will know what he's doing.

 

And which bearing?

[uberkevin]

The bearing behind the front plate inside the front case.

[Rhino13]

Cool, thanks for the heads up.

 

My machinist told me he can get it out no problem. Just have to get a set of timing cover bolts from h5wagon and drop it off when I get in to work. Hogie is hooking me up with the exhaust valve I need. I have the rest of them cleaned up and lapped, and new seals waiting to go on.

[Draker]

Good to hear!

[datzenmike]

So I've heard different things about whether or not I need the matchbox module in a 720 when using the L series distributor. Will I need the little module on the side or will it be good without it?

 

This is a Z22 with L head and L distributor?

 

If you have an EI distributor you can run the proper module on the side (matchbox) or you can wire a General Motors HEI unit to do the same thing.

 

 

It says 'Non Matchbox' below but it's for the remote igniter EI distributor. This HEI set up will also work with the matchbox distributor.

[Eagle_Adam]

Good to see you the other night! Bring that head and towers by for a good cleaning if u want.

 

 

 

 

P.S. - don't forget the harbor frieght miracle tool we talked about ;)

[Rhino13]

Yes Mike, it's a z22 bottom end with L everything else. Thanks for the info, I remember someone telling me about how you can use the gm one as well. I'll take a picture of the distributor I have after work, there's no spot to put a matchbox on the side but it's not points.

 

Good to see you too Adam! I still hit you up after work and bring everything by. Thanks for the reminder, I probably would've forgot to go get it.

[Jester]

That would be an early electronic version. The "box" on those was inside the cab on the passenger side kick panel. 

You CAN use your dist. wired as mike posted.

[denmarkboy]

I have a bunch of distributors and combos if you need something let me know.

[Rhino13]

Is there anything different or not as good about it? If not I'll use it and get a box for it.

[Jester]

It's just  a matter of what you have. Everyone wants the "matchbox" cause everything is in one package. The older ones, like your, are the same damn thing without the box ON the distributor. 

[datzenmike]

Is there anything different or not as good about it? If not I'll use it and get a box for it.

 

 

The remote igniter is ok.... but the wiring isn't there and it would have to go all the way back to the pass side kick panel beside the glove box to properly mount it... and you have to 'find one'.. Definitely get a $10 GM HEI module and a few feet of wire.

[Rhino13]

Well I'm supposed to be getting the block back from the machinist today. I'm about half way done putting the head together because I've been so busy, but it'll go quick once I have a free day. Probably won't get the bottom end back together until early next week. I'm going backpacking in the Deschutes wilderness this weekend then have to work my days off next week. It'll be slow going but I'm confident it'll be in the truck by rats with dats!

[Rhino13]

Won't have the block back until Monday, but the guy did get the bolt out. The sidewall was thin and cracked a tiny bit, so he tapped the hole, cut a very small V out where the crack was, he just has to put the hardened bolt in then he's going to braise it in to fix the sidewall and lock the bolt in place. Then he'll drill and tap the center of that bolt and I'll be good to go.

 

H5wagon and I plan on getting it in the truck by Wednesday evening if all goes as planned. When we put the bottom end together the first time we oriented the rings same as an l20 would be because we couldn't find it in the book I have and Craig knew the l20 specs. What are the ring orientations for a z22?

[Jester]

Here you go. 

[Rhino13]

Well I got the block back and got everything back in the bottom end. The guy that did the bolt did a great job, but he threw it in his parts washer and it stripped a lot of the paint off. He also braised the bolt in so it's got a little bit of a gold tooth now. Mike and I were thinking the motor should be called the little gorilla and my truck is the snake pit because of the snake I had on my dash.

 

Timing gear is on

 

Front cover installed

 

And the little gorillas golden tooth

[izzo]

Any lowering or raising will affect the front camber and toe alignment. The more you lower the more it changes. Toe isn't that noticable on dry pavement but it wears the ties fast and unevenly. I found my truck would turn normally into a corner (like a driveway) but then the wheel would almost turn in more by itself. On wet pavement if one wheel hit a puddle the truck would dart over to that side. Parked in the driveway if a crossed the street and lookd at, it the two front wheels were pointed right at me they were that far out. 

 

 

You seem kind of a hands on guy so take a look in my 710 goon build thread. I have a way to check/adjust the toe in. Takes some time but costs nothing. 

 

 

This

 

I do alignments for a living.  Brakes, ball joints, tie rods, suspension...  Any time you do any kind of raising, lowering, ball joint replacing, tie rods, etc you need to have it aligned.  Or you will be going thru tires.   The toe can be easily fixed. The camber usually can't be fixed because of the way the trucks upper control arm is designed.  To reduce the camber issue, you can install belltech 2 inch drop spindles and then raise the front up a little with the torsion bars. teh camber won't be so far out. 

[izzo]

Just a bit of advice.  Take the timing cover off, and the chain out.  Wait till you have the head on and installed. then install the chain, then timing cover, then oil pan.  Tends to work better and easier that way.  Have built a ton of L series, naps, and A series... Tends to be a fuck ton easier.

[Rhino13]

This

 

I do alignments for a living. Brakes, ball joints, tie rods, suspension... Any time you do any kind of raising, lowering, ball joint replacing, tie rods, etc you need to have it aligned. Or you will be going thru tires. The toe can be easily fixed. The camber usually can't be fixed because of the way the trucks upper control arm is designed. To reduce the camber issue, you can install belltech 2 inch drop spindles and then raise the front up a little with the torsion bars. teh camber won't be so far out.

I'm considering getting some drop spindles, but for now I left the truck where it was at from last time it was aligned so I wouldn't need to mess with it before the shows in June.

 

We were going to do that order, but decided we should put the cover on first because it's an lz. We figured it'll be easier to have the full flat surface the head will be sitting on to fill in the gaps around the front cover on the gasket with rtv. We did realize that the z22 gasket does just barely seal all the way around the L front cover, but it's very thin on the driver's side so we are using one of the pieces we cut off with a bolt hole to patch it, then rtv it together.

[Rhino13]

Waiting on head bolts, carb adapter, valve cover bolts, and the 4 intake bolts. Once I get all of it here it should go together in no time and enable me to get the motor in on my weekend! (Tuesday-wednesday)