Might be Screwed, need advice

[M240Z]

What's up guys. A few months back I sold my sr20det swapped s13 for a good chunk of money I couldnt refuse. Its been probably about 2 months and the new owner cant get anyone to smog the car for him, also the car is going to shit because its just sitting there. The new owner knew what an SR was and that it couldnt get smogged. So all of a sudden its my problem that the car is breaking down and he can't get it smogged. I made the.buyer sign a contract saying that he is responsible for the smog and the car is sold as is. Just learned CA law states I need to have the car smogged within 3 months of sale, but I had no intention of selling at the time. He says he is not going to screw me over but I have a bad feeling about it. Anyone experience something similar? Any advice? Thanks

[Dguy210]

In CA, you CAN NOT waive the seller's smog requirements. The buyer may agree to take the car as is, and smog it himself, but that does NOT relieve the seller of responsibility if the buyer then decides to change their mind.

 

From the Calif. bureau of automotive repairs website:

 

"Q: Who is responsible for obtaining a Smog Check when a vehicle is sold?

 

A: Section 24007 ( B(2) of the Vehicle Code states it is the responsibility of the seller to provide a valid smog certificate at the time of delivery of the vehicle. There is no provision in the law to sell a vehicle "as is."

 

Q: I just purchased a vehicle and the seller did not provide a Smog Check. The vehicle needs expensive repairs in order to pass. What should I do?

 

A: Go back to the seller, inform them about Vehicle Code section 24007 ( B(2), and try to work things out amicably. If that fails, you have the option to pay for the repairs and the Smog Check yourself, and then take the seller to Small Claims Court to recover your costs. Although the law clearly supports the buyer, collecting on a small claims judgment can be difficult, so the amicable solution is usually best. If the seller is a state-licensed auto dealer, buyers have the additional option of filing a complaint with the DMV, which regulates new- and used-car dealers."

 

 

Section 24007 ( B(2) of the Vehicle Code states it is the responsibility of the seller to provide a valid smog certificate at the time of delivery of the vehicle. There is no provision in the law to sell a vehicle "as is." Therefore the seller is always responsible for the smog certificate even if they mention the car is sold "as-is" because the law doesn't recognize the "as-is" policy. If you are buying a vehicle, make sure to ask the seller for a smog certificate. You will not be able to register your vehicle without it. A California smog certificiate is valid for 90 days. "

 

Title Transfer and Smog Requirements

When you sell a vehicle that is four or fewer model years old, a smog certificate will not be required in order to transfer the title. The buyer will pay a smog transfer fee of $8. If the vehicle sold is more than four model years old, the seller must provide evidence of a current smog certification except in any of the following situations:

 

The vehicle transfer occurs between a spouse, sibling, child, parent, grandparent, or grandchild.

The vehicle was registered and biennial smog certification was submitted to the DMV within 90 days before the date the title transfer took place. A vehicle inspection report may be required for proof of certification.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/title-transfers.php#Buying_a_Vehiclehttp://www.dmv.org/ca-california/title-transfers.php#Buying_a_Vehicle

 

"When a used vehicle is sold in California, the seller is legally responsible for making sure that the vehicle's emission (smog) control equipment complies with state requirements. There is no provision in the law allowing a seller to sell a vehicle "as is." The buyer must submit the certificate of compliance (smog certificate) to the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) when transferring registration of the vehicle. Without the smog certificate, the transfer of ownership cannot be completed."

 

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARResources/02_SmogCheck/Used_Vehicle_Smog_Equip_Req.html

 

So in California the title will not transfer without it passing the smog check. So the car's still yours unless he wants to use if for race only. Best suggestion is to register it non-op to prevent back fees. Probably at this point it needs to be sold out of state or returned to its original drivetrain.

[bonvo]

your best bet is going to a smog shop that doesnt mind passing cars that normally wouldnt as long as you have the cash i know its illegal but its just about your only shot without dropping a ka in it 

[h190]

Move out of liberal California.   Move East to smogless states.     Problem solved.

[cdub42]

on one hand i understand the law, but there needs to be a provision in there for built not bought and classics

[MikeRL411]

You might be able to register as a "custom" i.e. hot rod of kit car classification given the modifications.  The model would be registered as "Custom"  and the smog requrements would be a hodge podge of chassis year, engine block year and date on which the conversion was done [which might kill the whole idea].  If there are any limo conversion firms in the Santa Cruz. San Jose Hayward or San Francisco area they just might take pity on you and "consult" on your options since they go through this crap on a daily basis,  Good Luck!

[M240Z]

I know I'm pretty screwed of the guy wants to do something about it but I'm trying to find him a place that will smog. Thing Is he knew when he bought the car that he would have to smog, even thigh the law says I have to, he was cool with it but now i think he's having buyers remorse and is trying to bring me down which isn't cool.

[510T]

if it is still registered to you re-reg it as off-highway vehicle ( track car).

[datsunaholic]

It may not be cool, but he's using the law, which you willfully violated, to his advantage.  He might have thought at the time he could easily find someone willing to "bend the law" to get it registered.  Not finding anything, he consulted the web forums and the CA DMV laws and found what DGuy210 above posted.  And came back to you.  The CA law is pretty clear that the onus is on the seller.  Aside from a legal binding notarized document, he has the legal means to come back to you to fix it.  A contract along won't cut it, since CA law has no such provision as "As Is". 

 

You have 2 feasable (and legal) alternatives:

 

1) Refund his money and take the car back.

2) Pay for the repairs, which would involve putting the car back stock so it can pass.

 

There are other not-so-legal alternatives which I shall not discuss.  bababooey's suggestion is kind of gray-area,  though I kind of like it (would totally screw the buyer, though) but it's sort of moot if the buyer has the signed, dated title. 

 

The fact that the car is an S13, meaning it's an '89-94 and therefore subject to smog testing, means any engine swaps other than stock-for-stock are illegal in California AND can possibly cause the car to be impounded and crushed. 

[r0p0doe]

Its been probably about 2 months and the new owner cant get anyone to smog the car for him, also the car is going to shit because its just sitting there. The new owner knew what an SR was and that it couldnt get smogged. So all of a sudden its my problem that the car is breaking down and he can't get it smogged. I made the.buyer sign a contract saying that he is responsible for the smog and the car is sold as is.

he signed a paper saying he was buying it as is and knew of the issue so it's not your problem. Your being nice enough to try and help but it's not your problem anymore.

[yellowdatsun]

One more reason not to live in California.

 

I thought that in Cali you don't have to put it back to stock, but rather it gets tested for the year of the engine? No? But I guess with an SR20, since it's not related to any model sold here, they have no way of really doing that anyways.

 

I also thought that over there you didn't have to get the cars actually inspected, unless you got caught with a roadside sniffer or something. No? Or did the laws change and actually get *worse*?

 

He may have signed a paper about "as-is", but I doubt that will override the law stating that it's your responsibility.

 

My understanding from reading above, is that the car still belongs to you, and will continue to belong to you unless he can get it to pass smog. So if he can't the only thing you CAN do is give him his money back. Sucks, but unless you can do it illegally, that's probably the reality of the situation. If he hires a lawyer, I'm sure you'd lose due to how the law is written.

[M240Z]

I thought at the time of selling it I would be fine making him sign that contract but the contract doesn't mean anything. I wouldn't mind buying the car back off of him but he messed the car up, it doesn't even run right now and I'm getting the blame for that as well. I've been nothing but nice to the guy by letting him make payments and trying to get parts for him. He told me that he is not going to get anyone in trouble so hopefully he sticks to his word. My question is since he hasn't gotten the car smogged is the title of the car still in my name? Because I talked to him last night and he said it was in his name, but he still hasn't gotten smog. 

[SupDoc]

The contract isn't binding, since it goes against CA law.  Title and registration are two different things.  Title just shows who legally owns the car.  You can change title without registering the car (i.e. a non-op car).   But you can't register the car without valid smog test (unless smog-exempt).  If he mailed in the pink slip that you signed, the title is probably in his name now.

[HRH]

I would talk to an emissions certified shop one on one, to see if there is a way around it.  I'm sure someone knows how.  And California is an awesome state....to visit! :D

[M240Z]

Haha California is a pain in the and so is this kid. Found someone who would smog it and said I would pay for it as the law says "i have to fix all repairs to pass smog" and now I think hes trying to sell the car back, even when it didn't work now. I'm so pissed, Im working with this guy and Im not getting any respect back. Only thing Im swapping an SR into now is a 510!haha

[ArchetypeDatsun]

All this talk about stupid smog laws makes me feels better about living in Oregon :D no smog laws here for cars 20yrs or older.

 

California is fun place but to visit only.

[Dguy210]

Haha California is a pain in the and so is this kid. Found someone who would smog it and said I would pay for it as the law says "i have to fix all repairs to pass smog" and now I think hes trying to sell the car back, even when it didn't work now. I'm so pissed, Im working with this guy and Im not getting any respect back. Only thing Im swapping an SR into now is a 510!haha

Note: For hypothetical purposes only, some of this is definitely not ethical.

 

After thinking about this some, I would doublecheck to see if the title is actually in his name.  The law states it should not transfer without a smog check. He may be lying on this, and it would give you more control over the situation. If you have the ability register the car non-op. This MAY bypass the need for the smog check then, and puts the onus of getting it to register on him, it also removes the immediate need to do this. I would also restate to him that the car was sold with the understanding that it is off-road non-op racecar due to the engine swap.   

 

If he just wants to sell the car back, I would deduct any damages from the price. You will have a lot more control here if the title is still in your name, as by his own definition and the smog laws your original contract was null and void anyway.  If you were feeling really pissed you could even charge him for use of the vehicle (rent) as it was still in your name. Especially as he is making payments. In the end just remember this whole thing is a civil not criminal matter (aside from removing smog equipment for a on-road vehicle) and he would need to sue you to get a judgement. These are notoriously difficult to collect on anyways.

 

If the title is in his name, convince him to non-op it for now while you figure this out. Once he does this, you have a much better position as the title and registration are not in your name then!  The onus would then be on him to get it moved off non-op and it sounds like he is pretty lazy. I'd just kinda break contact at that point as he then has an uphill battle to show your responsibility.  Wait a while and then suggest to him that he sell it out of state.

 

 

Oh, and fuck California smog laws!

[M240Z]

Note: For hypothetical purposes only, some of this is definitely not ethical.

 

After thinking about this some, I would doublecheck to see if the title is actually in his name. The law states it should not transfer without a smog check. He may be lying on this, and it would give you more control over the situation. If you have the ability register the car non-op. This MAY bypass the need for the smog check then, and puts the onus of getting it to register on him, it also removes the immediate need to do this. I would also restate to him that the car was sold with the understanding that it is off-road non-op racecar due to the engine swap.

 

If he just wants to sell the car back, I would deduct any damages from the price. You will have a lot more control here if the title is still in your name, as by his own definition and the smog laws your original contract was null and void anyway. If you were feeling really pissed you could even charge him for use of the vehicle (rent) as it was still in your name. Especially as he is making payments. In the end just remember this whole thing is a civil not criminal matter (aside from removing smog equipment for a on-road vehicle) and he would need to sue you to get a judgement. These are notoriously difficult to collect on anyways.

 

If the title is in his name, convince him to non-op it for now while you figure this out. Once he does this, you have a much better position as the title and registration are not in your name then! The onus would then be on him to get it moved off non-op and it sounds like he is pretty lazy. I'd just kinda break contact at that point as he then has an uphill battle to show your responsibility. Wait a while and then suggest to him that he sell it out of state.

 

 

Oh, and fuck California smog laws!

Yea i want to move out of California now!haha This is pretty good advice to screw him over but I don't want to take any chances on getting me or my friend in trouble. I'm going to try and work this out civilly with him this week. He's had the car for over a month now, isn't there certain amount of time he has to get me to smog? I wish.

[FoxyRoadster]

I'm no lawyer but did the paperwork state you was selling him a street car? I mean if the laws there req

 

Note: For hypothetical purposes only, some of this is definitely not ethical.

 

After thinking about this some, I would doublecheck to see if the title is actually in his name.  The law states it should not transfer without a smog check. He may be lying on this, and it would give you more control over the situation. If you have the ability register the car non-op. This MAY bypass the need for the smog check then, and puts the onus of getting it to register on him, it also removes the immediate need to do this. I would also restate to him that the car was sold with the understanding that it is off-road non-op racecar due to the engine swap.   

 

If he just wants to sell the car back, I would deduct any damages from the price. You will have a lot more control here if the title is still in your name, as by his own definition and the smog laws your original contract was null and void anyway.  If you were feeling really pissed you could even charge him for use of the vehicle (rent) as it was still in your name. Especially as he is making payments. In the end just remember this whole thing is a civil not criminal matter (aside from removing smog equipment for a on-road vehicle) and he would need to sue you to get a judgement. These are notoriously difficult to collect on anyways.

 

If the title is in his name, convince him to non-op it for now while you figure this out. Once he does this, you have a much better position as the title and registration are not in your name then!  The onus would then be on him to get it moved off non-op and it sounds like he is pretty lazy. I'd just kinda break contact at that point as he then has an uphill battle to show your responsibility.  Wait a while and then suggest to him that he sell it out of state.

 

 

Oh, and fuck California smog laws!

 

 

Random thought.. The car was sold with non-street mods done to it.. Doesnt Cali have registration for non-road cars (I.E racecars), if your contract doesn't state its a road car then you are in the clear if he can register it as that.

 

I don't like people selling lemons, but its another thing when you clearly state things and they either ignore it or dont care and come back like its your problem.

[M240Z]

I'm no lawyer but did the paperwork state you was selling him a street car? I mean if the laws there req

 

 

 

Random thought.. The car was sold with non-street mods done to it.. Doesnt Cali have registration for non-road cars (I.E racecars), if your contract doesn't state its a road car then you are in the clear if he can register it as that.

 

I don't like people selling lemons, but its another thing when you clearly state things and they either ignore it or dont care and come back like its your problem.

Well I had it registered as a regular car because I was daily driving it. He wanted the car because of the engine and told me he had a friend that would smog it for him. I wasn't trying to sell the car because I really liked it but he made me a good offer.

[desert rat]

I've seen these "type" of cases go through the Victorville court. The Judge threw them all out. I'm not saying that it was right or wrong but thats what happened. He asked the plantiff if they saw the "hand written" bill of sale stating "AS IS". They did. judgement went for the defendant. When I bought this my 510 the old lady who sold it to me was pretty clear that she wanted NO responsibilities for this car once it left her garage. she had me sign a contract which she kept stating that the car would not pass smog, had no warantee, didn't run, ect. The way I see it as the law is written is that this is YOUR problem being the seller. But the cases I've seen personally suggest otherwise...

Even though the car I purchased is presmog, I think that old lady had a good Idea selling it as a non running car, even though all I did was install a battery, and go. If you buy a car as a non running project how can the seller be held responsible???

[racerx]

This is why I don't like cars 76 and above..Calif. has strict smog laws and hear it even got stricter with STAR req.  Yep.  it is the sellers responsibility to smog the car, unless it is pass down from immediate family, then no smog required till later.  I don't think this is worth going to court, may have to cut your loses.

[Jackson311]

imo I wouldn't worry at all... but try and stay nice with the guy...

 

even california law admits small calms courts is a joke. same story anywhere you go. people always cut their loses before trying to go to small claims.

 

He won't shell out more money (for lawyer) to take you to court over such small amount. And if he we're to win, which even if the contract you had him sign is not legal, it will go long ways when presented in front of judge, especially on a classic and circumstances.

 

says he wins, as bad as thsi sounds there's typically nothing in place to force you to ever pay him. just claim you don't have it.

 

oh and kansas is awesome, not smog on any car, any year. Almost zero rules on the books for inspections. just has to have lights. only reason you have to get inspected is to check vin if you bought out of state.

[racerx]

Lucky kansas...if i was there, i would buy 80s cars

[M240Z]

Kansas huh? Haha Must be nice!

 

I'm meeting up with the douche tomorrow so we will see what happens. When I had the 240 it was running great just needed like work like speedo and stuff. Now it has a ton of problems and its just been over a month. If i sold him the car as a non running car i would feel like its my responsibility to get the car running so he can smog it but he messed up the car so I feel like its on him, but i think he's trying to get money from me to post floor the repairs also since the car won't make it to the smog place.