My '76 710 Goon

[datzenmike]

Now the block mount. Well I bolted my set up onto a spare L motor and my modified mount was... well it was just wrong. Anyway I have about 10 of them so I grabbed another and for some reason the pulley now lines up perfectly. So the '01 Altima 100amp. internally regulated alternator fits right onto the factory L block mount and the pulley lines up.

 

 

 

The block mount is likely from a 720.

The alt. was larger diameter than 620 block I test fit it on and the belt was too short.

I'll try it with a 710 belt some when else. Worst case is a new longer belt.

.

[zerow]

Now the block mount. Well I bolted my set up onto a spare L motor and my modified mount was... well it was just wrong. Anyway I have about 10 of them so I grabbed another and for some reason the pulley now lines up perfectly. So the '01 Altima 100amp. internally regulated alternator fits right onto the factory L block mount and the pulley lines up.

So, the mount you modified was [possibly] from a 720? And this mount is the stock mount from the 710? I am just a bit confused on the explanation...

[datzenmike]

Not sure now,  but they are all the same as far as holding the alt. There may be a small up or down difference but this only changes the belt length and it probably needs to be changed for length anyway. So I just went out and took a picture of an L20B alt mount for a 710... sure looks the same as the 720 one.

 

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So today I worked on the wiring. I made up a plug that will plug into the 710 harness on one end and into the Altima alt. on the other. Soldered and shrink wrapped and covered nicely with flexible split tubing.




I bought a 4 gauge lug, trimmed the output cable to length, crimped it on and soldered it.

Covered in split tubing and in place. It should rest on the frame rail. There is a stout ground wire that I may slip under a motor mount bolt.


Left to do is cut the regulator off the plug and join the two wires like I did on the sedan.


This end just plugs into the harness.


One difference between the 510 and later externally regulated systems is that the two added jumper wires will leave the choke heater relay on all the time and kill the battery. I found the easiest thing to do is remove the choke heater relay completely and jumper the choke heater wire to the idle cut solenoid. But that's for another day.

[datzenmike]

OK, today I pulled my spare volt regulator out of storage and checked the plug was an exact match to my '76 harness. Using a hair pin I released the pins not needed on the plug...

 

 

Leaving the White/Red stripe and the White/Black stripe pair and the White and Yellow pairs that will be joined to eliminate the regulator and keep the red charge light in the dash.

 

 

 

Both pairs twisted together, soldered and shrunk wrapped.

 

 

Now, when I remove the regulator in my goon, I just plug this end into the engine wiring harness. Neat, clean and no loose ends.

 

Now on a PL510 I would be all done, just swap the alt and plug in the jumper. Unfortunately later regulated alternators differ and a charge must be sensed by the choke heater relay to keep it on. Joining the White and the Yellow wires will power the coil on the relay and over a day or so will kill the battery.

 

 

 

On my '74 I basically unplugged the Yellow wire at the relay and ran a switched power from an ignition source, like to the coil or the idle cut solenoid. As the choke heater relay is now only on with the ignition, everything works just fine.

[datzenmike]

Well it was sunny or bright this morning, mild and I continued my 100 amp swap. The goon is out of insurance so I'm not worried if I don't finish, in fact I don't like rushing stuff anyway.

 

I started by removing the 50 amp externally regulated alternator and found... the bottom back mounting bolt is missing. Also the timing case bolt that holds the adjusting strap for belt tension was hand tight. Now this could just be a home mechanic changing the belt? and forgot to tighten them.

 

 

So here is my modified block mount to allow the alternator to rotate closer to the block. Just a simple matter or grinding away some metal and a few test fits. I did this on another 710 L20B motor I have sitting in the driveway. WAY EASIER.

 

 

 

 

For some reason the '77 L20B had a shorter strap that my '76 with air con.???

 

 

 

I could have used it as is and run the bolt from back to front into the alternator but because I had lots of length to play with I added a couple of bends to move the bolt to the front.

 

 

Looks just right now. Yes I tried the stock belt but it was so close.... I got one that was 1" shorter. In order to put it on I had to remove the two bottom mount bolts, put belt on, then put the bolts back in. Adjusts nice and tight.... and you need it tight. This baby needs lots of grip to crank out 100 amps or it will squeal like a pig at stops with lights and fan on.

 

 

Now the time I spent making a plug pays off. Just snap together and it's wired. 

 

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The other engine harness power output wire and the ground are not needed so I taped them up securely and covered with more split harness covering

 

 

 

The regulator is removed and the two wire jumper I made earlier just plugs into the hole on the inside.

 

 

On the outside the engine harness just plugs back in, you'd never know the regulator was gone.

 

 

 

I still have to disconnect the choke heater relay and wire the choke heater to a switched ignition source. While I'm at it I plan to make a hot start relay for it because of an annoying double click to get the starter to crank. I also have a gear reduction starter I like to put on.  Maybe I can use the disconnected choke heater relay for this???

[zerow]

[...]While I'm at it I plan to make a hot start relay for it because of an annoying double click to get the starter to crank. I also have a gear reduction starter I like to put on.  Maybe I can use the disconnected choke heater relay for this???

I wouldn't recommend it. Use the wire from the solenoid. It will have the "least" amount of voltage, but will be plenty of voltage for the starter relay. Run a heavier gauge wire for the "new" solenoid wire with a good spade connector and a boot. Run the wire back up the same harness bunch (outside the others, in case you need to replace it for any reason). Keep the relay close to the battery, I have mine next to the battery. Don't forget a good 30A fuse. The gear reduction starter is a great upgrade, I love mine.

[datzenmike]

I think on my sedan, I connected the relay into the starter solenoid wire right where the volt regulator was. It's only 2? feet from the starter. The other end (from the START position on the ignition) I used to trigger the relay (it was down around 6 volts) and the 12 volt supply was from.... I forget, maybe a stereo fuse. It used to take 2-3 tries and then got up near 8-10 tries to get the starter to kick in. Since the relay it has never failed to crank on the first try.  The larger solenoid wire is a good idea.

 

I like the distinctive sound they make. I have a Maxima L24 gear reduction starter I'll swap in. It's a close fit behind the motor mount it's that long. CHIRP CHIRP Vrooooom

[zerow]

I have my solenoid power "supply" wire straight off the battery. The relay does all the switching, so there is no "run on" of the solenoid. My gear reduction starter was a JY find, still had the sticker on it, so I had all the faith in the world that things were good to go for my use. I have an extra for core turn in, when the time comes.

[datzenmike]

Well today I fished out my gear reduction starter. It's from a '79 620 motor I found in a home made tracked vehicle up in the woods. The starter in my goon was 2 days old when I bought it, but it's a Bosch rebuild. It works just fine but would rather have the GR. So out with the new and in with the old.

 

Got the wrong GR. It was for a Z series.Can anyone tell which is an L series???

 

 

Mounted the GR starter but broke the starter solenoid wire trying to push it on. Scrounged up another from a 720 harness, soldered and shrink wrapped. The output cable from the alternator is a bit long so I'll get another 4 gauge lug and re-do it. It'll look better.

 

Found the fusible link partly fried, had spare, replaced.

 

I checked and when the battery cable is connected the choke heater relay clicks on so for now I'll just leave the battery disconnected. Maybe tomorrow I'll work on disconnecting that relay and feeding the choke heater from some other switched source. Also want to wire up a hot start relay.

[bonvo]

the one on the right looks like l series to me 

 

every time i look at this thread now it reminds me i need to do something about the alternator in the subaru 

[datzenmike]

Good eye. A  Z starter solenoid bumps against an L series dip stick. You can dent the dip stick tube over but then the solid dip stick won't go around the bend. I did this once by getting a flexible stick from a GM and riveting it to the Datsun handle.

 

I left off yesterday with the GR starter installed and I guess I should have waited before crimping and soldering that lug on the power output wire from the alternator. It's too long and doesn't look very neat. So I got another and shortened the wire added it soldered and put heat shrink on it. It make it neater I paired the battery positive cable with the alt output cable.... seriously I think the alt power cable is larger!!!,

 and wrapped with that plastic split harness (from a 720 of course) and electrical tapped it up.

 

Yup the black one with the blue stripe is the output from the 100 amp alternator. The smaller one is the positive battery cable!!!

 

 

When I was at the fastener store I should have gotten a large lug to splice on the alternator ground wire so I could bolt to the engine bracket. I'll tape it to the bottom of the big cables.

 

 

 

..

[datzenmike]

OK the double 14? gauge ground wires are shortened, lug crimped and attached to the engine bracket to mount bolt. Neat and makes good ground return to through the block/head and battery ground cable.

 

 

Pulled the choke heater relay out and dismantled it to find out how it is wired internally. Will try to use the idle cut solenoid as a trigger to turn the heater relay on.

.

[datzenmike]

Thought I started a post on this but maybe not.  I've been working on a power steering idea for the goon. I have a couple of L20Bs in the driveway (who doesn't right?) so I can mock up something on one of them get it sorted out and then swap it all over to the car. I'm convinced the S110 steering box is almost identical to the 710 so the power steering box must be close to the same bolt up and certainly the same steering linkages. The PS box is slightly longer so the column will need to be shortened. The S110 hydraulic lines bolt and run along the front of the cross member so this should also be close to the 710 location. PS was offered on the 4 cylinder Z series motors used in the S110 and the 720.

 

Because the 720 and the S110 have electric fuel pumps the un-used mechanical pump boss is a perfect location for mounting the PS pump. They are also in the same location on the L20B so the Z series mounting bracket bolts right on.

 

Fuel pump off PS pump will go about here...

 

The Z20 and Z22 have a fuel pump block off plate so I put that on to cover the hole. Then installed the holding bracket and then bolted the pump onto it. The far right side of the blue bracket had to be trimmed to clear the front of the L head.

 

 

 

This is the tensioner. One of the holding points is the top left timing cover bolt. I used the Z one because it longer. As the L and Z timing covers are pretty much the same this should line up nice with the pump pulley.The other side of the tensioner absolutely does not line up with anything I can bolt to. 

 

 

So I kept it on this bolt and rotated it  around counter clockwise to a likely position and trimmed it to fit up against the timing chain inspection cover.

 

 

 

Made a support with holes to match the inspection cover. Now it needs to be welded up the seam where my finger is. I'm hoping three support points will do. The inspection cover bolts are only 10mm. I may have to weld a strap from the back, back to an exhaust manifold bolt. You can see where I mean in picture number 3.. just below the water temp sender.

 

 

So this just leaves the problem of the pulley. (I had a heart attack earlier but figured it out) I have an air conditioner belt at the back and the alt./water pump belt on my L20B... that's it.

 

 

 

Never throw shit out. In the parts pile were several Z series crank pulleys... problem solved.

 

 

 

Stock 720/200sx belt fits. Haven't tightened the tensioner pulley but looks like lots of adjustment range.  I did have to remove the by-pass hose and metal tube at the front for room to work but it should fit back or close enough. The only other thing is the fan blade. The Z series use a larger diameter that clears the adjustment pulley. I checked and I can space mine forward (2'' or 3") towards the rad to get the clearance needed. 1/2" should do.

 

I think I will weld it in place rather than clamp it with a couple of pair of vice-grips and carry indoors. This is too critical to not get it exactly 90 or whatever and have the pulley off. Luckily I have a 35-40 meter long (that's way over 100 ft.) 10 gauge 4 wire extension cord with a drier plug on one end, the other was cut for some reason when I found it. I do have a plug foe the end but will have to wait until  tomorrow when I'm in town to get some larger crimp on connectors. This will easily reach the drier plug and allow my TIG into the front driveway. I've been meaning to do this anyway so I have the option of welding anything anywhere on the property. Mrs.D is not amused when I weld on the deck where I can reach the drier plug on the wall. 

 

The S110 (200sx) pump is different and has a fender mounted reservoir. The 720 pump has this integral and much neater looking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Z chopper]

hmmm wonder if that would work for a 510

[bonvo]

mike how do you thing the difference in tilt will effect the power steering pump? any possible starvation issues?

[Sealik]

mike how do you thing the difference in tilt will effect the power steering pump? any possible starvation issues?

 

That's what I was thinking also....but it worked  fine

LZ23 in 720....with stock PS

 

 

Made a plate to stabilize the tensioner....

 

[datzenmike]

Fuck me, Doug you already did this????

[Will]

Thanks for the research - this is what I wonder about whenever I need to parallel park!

[datzenmike]

My wife just started driving the sedan (on it's skinny tires) and that weekend was complaining of sore shoulders. Ha ha it's from not driving it for 4 months. My goon has 215/60R14s and parking requires a bit more effort. I put power on my 3,400 lb 620 with 33s and can switch lanes with the flick of the wrist. This could make the difference in an emergency. I'm becoming a Nancy in my old age I guess. When I was 20 I thought PS was for old men in Thunderbirds, but now I see that its a way to make a car handle closer to instantly fast. I imagine the S110 weighs a bit more than the 710 so I should be able to 'throw it around' pretty good.

 

I cobbled together my 220v extension cord yesterday. Plugged into the drier plug and ran it to the front driveway. Welded the tensioner wheel and It looks good. Those auto dark helmets are the tits. This one uses solar power so no batteries. I measured the length and the cable is 35 meters (at least) that's almost 120 feet.

 

Today if it doesn't rain and I get off work early I plan to pull the PS box off the hydraulic lines and compare it more closely to the standard box and the pitman arm, if the same I don't have to remove it. Also I want to see about new rubber covers for my ball joints. Seems like the original ones have 'melted' or softened??? My 620 was the same. The 'rubber' should be able to contain grease but it seems to have dissolved them. Anyone else seen this?

[opalbeetle]

When I dismantled the front end of my wagon, I noticed exactly the same thing.  In fact, there wasn't much of a boot really left is was so deteriorated.

[datzenmike]

Saw 720 in yards and the same thing. The 'rubber' looked like a melter tootsie roll bar.

 

I was in NAPA today and they still have generic 'boots' for ball joints. Not sure of the fit though

 

Hmmm

 

48577-13200 for the pitman arm to cross rod rubber is only $1.15 (510/610/710/200sx/B210)

 

48522-21000 tie rod and side rod ends is about $7 (six needed for the whole front end) (510/610/710/200sx/B210 240/260/280/280zx)

[RedBanner]

I sold a brand new set of z tie rods at canby, opened em up and the rubber had turned to gum... job security maybe.

[datzenmike]

Well a lot of work today with piss all to show really. I pulled the pitman arm of my spare 710 steering box in preparation of putting it on the S110 PS box. Could not get the PS arm off, said fukitall, pulled the PS out of my 620 and because it had previously had it off and had wisely used anti seize compound on the splines, it only took 15 min to get the arm off.

 

The problem is the 620 arm is shaped slightly different and the 710 arm is too small a spline so I'm stuck with the 620 pitman. So the plan is to get it heated up and adjust the bend.I already did this with this arm years ago so it was right for the 620. The arm and the box is originally from a D21.

 

 edit:  OK that won't work.

 

If I straighten the top 620 arm it should also lengthen slightly like the bottom 710 one. Already checked the ball joint fit.

 

Back to the S110 box.

[Eagle_Adam]

i hate days like that....... Sry mike 

[datzenmike]

Well it's going to be close. The PS box needs a shorter column... so short that the rag joint will be almost in the firewall. I think I can shorten it and the plate that bolts to the floor around it is adjustable. I can also slide the column towards the driver slightly too.

 

The other thing is the mounting bolt holes in the PS box need to be ovaled 0, to fit the holes in the frame. I used a carbide burr on my electric drill and roughed them out. I guess the next thing is to remove the box and column on the goon and start test fitting it.