destruction of america

[Duncan]

16 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I was afraid I remembered that wrongly. Just imaging those antifa assholes trying that in a GOP run state.

 

I live in a conservative run city in So Cal.  The Antifa idiots announced they were coming here to protest something a while back.  MMA dude Chuck Liddell lives in the area, and he showed up at their protest. He insinuated that if anyone was thinking about stepping out of line, or damaging anything, he was going to handle it.  Not surprisingly, nobody tried their luck. 

[datzenmike]

Yeah, don't fuck with mental people.

[datzenmike]

 

 

[yenpit]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

 

 

Babylon Bee videos are extremely well done!!!!!!!!! 🤣😆

[john510]

20 hours ago, frankendat said:

I use simple terminology, because I am simple, even if word choice will not withstand strict scrutiny. You are correct that I pay a similar percentage of interest for a loan at any given time. I say similar, because it rarely works out exactly, when attempting to reverse the math. You are correct it is what I agreed to, as a free American I could have chosen to live in a box and I could have chosen a shorter loan with a higher payment, but it would have cut into my caviar budget. I could have made larger principle payments, but again, I would be deprived of Russian fish eggs on my morning toast. 

Now there are fees and general bank fuckery, but keeping simple. Interest is a racket unto itself created to obscure usury and sharp dealing, simple says I give you $100,000 for a house. I think that house is worth more than $100k and for giving you the 100k to buy the house, I want $200k on a payment plan, which we agree, not to exceed 30 years. If you do not make payments as promised, I keep whatever money paid and the house and sue you if the house and what has been paid is less than $200k.  

 

It's funny that the above deal, on its face, seems worse than what is offered by many lenders. But using online loan calculators, the monthly payment necessary to repay $200k is $555.56. Repayment of a $100,000 loan, over 30 years at an rate of 8% is a total repayment of $264, 155.25, with a monthly payment of $733.76. (Neither monthly payment includes fuckery fees)

 

Someone might say that rich people (banks) can get a better return on their money than doubling over 30 years, which is true, most of the time. The difference is mortgages are secured (Bank keeps whatever money paid and the house and sue you if the house and what has been paid is less than agreed) AND home loans are insured by the Federal Government. Home loans are low risk and therefore low reward (in simple terms) Still doubling $100k in 30 years is an annual return just over 5%, which isn't terrible for a low risk investment.
 

So, returning to my thesis, Banks and bankers are motherless whores who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Once you sign off on a mortgage there are no more fees unless you're late on a payment. Did you borrow from a loan shark or Mafia member or something ? Without a bank to loan you money how would you buy a house or car ? That second paragraph is something else. You're not understanding that at all. Ditch the Caviar and pay off the house faster.

[john510]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

 

I live in a conservative run city in So Cal.  The Antifa idiots announced they were coming here to protest something a while back.  MMA dude Chuck Liddell lives in the area, and he showed up at their protest. He insinuated that if anyone was thinking about stepping out of line, or damaging anything, he was going to handle it.  Not surprisingly, nobody tried their luck. 

Those idiots did it here in Santee also. Announcing on Farcebook or something they were going to protest and tear up the shopping center near Home Depot. Real men showed up to protect the area. Pick up trucks and American flags. Protesters showed up but did nothing when they saw there was a citizens security force there. 

[datzenmike]

[frankendat]

20 hours ago, thisismatt said:

 

but it's still not the bank screwing you.

I blame you for reviving some long dead memory, I have been humming this since last night (and remembered a good chunk of the words from 35 years ago, now where are my keys...)

 

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

Once you sign off on a mortgage there are no more fees unless you're late on a payment. Did you borrow from a loan shark or Mafia member or something ? Without a bank to loan you money how would you buy a house or car ? That second paragraph is something else. You're not understanding that at all. Ditch the Caviar and pay off the house faster.

Caviar tastes like salt, to my "unrefined" palette, through a very unlikely and interesting set of events, I had the opportunity to indulge in special Russian caviar, it was special based on the location where it was obtained. The caviar, in the States, is sold between $700-$1000 oz. It was exciting, but for all the anticipation...salt. gritty salt. My call to caviar was a preemptive statement to those whose comments ring much like "let them eat cake".

 

As for fees, they exist, I would need to go over my paperwork to find them. I am certain they fees were listed in the documents signed and there is some "reason" for them. 
 

I went to see DUNE 2 last weekend, I hadn't been to the theater in over a year, so it was a big "date night". You pre buy tickets online and reserve your seats. No problem--$2.50 "convenience fee" per ticket, 2 tickets $32 and change. Concessions were a rape, but concessions always have been a rape, no surprise. It was surprising the theater no longer validates downtown parking $9. The theater and the attached parking garage are owned by the same outfit. I enjoyed the movie (read the books, well, read up through Messiah, in my opinion they started to drag on) And $41 for movie, before concessions, is steep, but for a rare outing, OK. It is the way that the figure was reached which chaps my cheeks. $5 convenience fee? Whose convenience? Is it more convenient for me to show up last minute and hold up the line paying with a paper check? How about I pay for a sold out weekend show in change, would be convenient? Not validating parking was just rude. It was my choice to go and the downtown theaters are closest to me, but next time I will go to a one a little farther away, go early, buy my tickets at the door and save $14. Moreover, next time there is a clamoring for mass transit into downtown or call for incentives for businesses to be/stay downtown, because a strong downtown keeps the city from economic downturn. I will tell them to pound salt. Like Banks, maybe in part caused by banks, "they" keep pushing, pushing here-pushing there. It is a perversion of capitalism, like the diamond market, where value is an illusion. No value is added, no"better mousetrap" invented, increased revenue through manipulation. Our elected officials (who are able to personally profit) take money from the taxpayer and use it to screw the taxpayer. Banks bitch and moan free market, but have sucked the taxpayer tit enough to make proper whores blush. Here ends today's rant.

[frankendat]

19 hours ago, thisismatt said:

 

I'm not arguing that banks aren't sleezy in other ways, only that there isn't really anything unscrupulous about a regular mortgage loan and the associated interest. The housing crisis is being exacerbated by other things (inflation, interest rates, wage stagnation, etc), but the way you made it sound was that you expect the lender to give you an essentially interest free loan for the first so many years so you can pay down the principle and not pay so much interest. But who would do that?  I don't like how much interest we have to pay, so we did a 15-year and I've been trying to throw more at the principle when we can.

Go back and check my proposed solutions, one of them actually favors the bank (one that you noted) Your counterpoint to that solution was sound. When tackling complex system reform there are, might be, maybe, sometimes, details overlooked, shooting from the hip. Inflation, the falling dollar, declining income, little things become big in a hurry.

[paradime]

Someone with a $500K 30-year mortgage at a fixed rate of 6% will hit the tipping point (where they're paying more on the principal than the interest) doesn't happen until 14 years into their loan. It's not just banks cover their risk, stalling your equity gives them a huge financial advantage. At the end, they'll pay nearly $580k in interest. 

 

 

[thisismatt]

56 minutes ago, paradime said:

Someone with a $500K 30-year mortgage at a fixed rate of 6% will hit the tipping point (where they're paying more on the principal than the interest) doesn't happen until 14 years into their loan. It's not just banks cover their risk, stalling your equity gives them a huge financial advantage. At the end, they'll pay nearly $580k in interest. 

 

 

 

But they're not stalling your equity, that's my point. They gave you a loan with a given APR.  6%APR on $500k is $30k or $2500/mo, so yeah your $3000/mo payment isn't paying much principle. You asked for a $500k loan, you got it.  If you paid it off in a year you'd have paid your 6% and be done.  I'm all ears if you know a better alternative to get $500k for 30 years and not pay the APR from the get go.

[bottomwatcher]

10 hours ago, frankendat said:

Caviar tastes like salt, to my "unrefined" palette, through a very unlikely and interesting set of events, I had the opportunity to indulge in special Russian caviar, it was special based on the location where it was obtained. The caviar, in the States, is sold between $700-$1000 oz. It was exciting, but for all the anticipation...salt. gritty salt. My call to caviar was a preemptive statement to those whose comments ring much like "let them eat cake".

 

As for fees, they exist, I would need to go over my paperwork to find them. I am certain they fees were listed in the documents signed and there is some "reason" for them. 
 

I went to see DUNE 2 last weekend, I hadn't been to the theater in over a year, so it was a big "date night". You pre buy tickets online and reserve your seats. No problem--$2.50 "convenience fee" per ticket, 2 tickets $32 and change. Concessions were a rape, but concessions always have been a rape, no surprise. It was surprising the theater no longer validates downtown parking $9. The theater and the attached parking garage are owned by the same outfit. I enjoyed the movie (read the books, well, read up through Messiah, in my opinion they started to drag on) And $41 for movie, before concessions, is steep, but for a rare outing, OK. It is the way that the figure was reached which chaps my cheeks. $5 convenience fee? Whose convenience? Is it more convenient for me to show up last minute and hold up the line paying with a paper check? How about I pay for a sold out weekend show in change, would be convenient? Not validating parking was just rude. It was my choice to go and the downtown theaters are closest to me, but next time I will go to a one a little farther away, go early, buy my tickets at the door and save $14. Moreover, next time there is a clamoring for mass transit into downtown or call for incentives for businesses to be/stay downtown, because a strong downtown keeps the city from economic downturn. I will tell them to pound salt. Like Banks, maybe in part caused by banks, "they" keep pushing, pushing here-pushing there. It is a perversion of capitalism, like the diamond market, where value is an illusion. No value is added, no"better mousetrap" invented, increased revenue through manipulation. Our elected officials (who are able to personally profit) take money from the taxpayer and use it to screw the taxpayer. Banks bitch and moan free market, but have sucked the taxpayer tit enough to make proper whores blush. Here ends today's rant.

You said "Sold out show". People piss and moan about prices but the shows are still selling out. Where I live it is still long waiting periods to get in a restaurant. There are more and more brand new boats on the water continuing the arms race of who has the largest and most outboards on the back of thier boats. Want a new boat? Wait period and no deals. Nobody seems to give a shit about prices. Once the shows stop selling out and boats start sitting on the lot we won't see any price drops.

[datzenmike]

So Trump has posted a bond for $90+ million for his E Gene Carrol appeal backed by Chubb who was insuring the Nord Stream 2 pipeline but ceased in early '21. That's Putin territory. This should be investigated some. Did Trump put up collateral or maybe Putin? It's a bit of a stretch but? 

[paradime]

13 hours ago, thisismatt said:

 

But they're not stalling your equity, that's my point. They gave you a loan with a given APR.  6%APR on $500k is $30k or $2500/mo, so yeah your $3000/mo payment isn't paying much principle. You asked for a $500k loan, you got it.  If you paid it off in a year you'd have paid your 6% and be done.  I'm all ears if you know a better alternative to get $500k for 30 years and not pay the APR from the get go.

 

Yes, but who said anything about not paying the APR from the start? My point is the amount being paid towards the principle is a shallow curve that effectively stalls the borrowers rate of earned equity against the principal. I'm no expert, but this loan structure clearly favors the banks profit margin. They hold the deed to the property along with your down payment as collateral, and require you to carry loan insurance to further mitigate their risk. The longer this ratio is in their favor,  ie pre tipping point, in the event of foreclosure they'er taking more in collateral, and paying you less in accrued equity. For example, with this inverse ratio curve structure, the first payment on a 30 yr loan, you're paying 95% towards the interest aka bank profit, and only 5% towards the principal amount aka your earned equity. It's so lucrative in fact, banking is the most profitable industry in the US economy today, and all they do is figure out new ways to take more of your money.

 

We bailed these pigs out when their greed shit the entire economic bed, so they should flatten that curve to a linear payment ratio from the start to make it (forgive me) more *equitable*. 😜 Payments would remain constant, but the 6% goes toward interest on the remaining balance each month, and the rest goes directly to pay down the principal. Does this sound fair, or even make any sense? 

[frankendat]

8 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

You said "Sold out show". People piss and moan about prices but the shows are still selling out. Where I live it is still long waiting periods to get in a restaurant. There are more and more brand new boats on the water continuing the arms race of who has the largest and most outboards on the back of thier boats. Want a new boat? Wait period and no deals. Nobody seems to give a shit about prices. Once the shows stop selling out and boats start sitting on the lot we won't see any price drops.

I have already read some editorials foreshadowing the coming fall. Statements like this "over specialized hippy shop" that opened downtown went out of business" whine and moan. The government should support downtown business, otherwise they can't compete with the ample free parking and prices of suburban stores and "we" must stop sprawl.
 

The result, I'll take it with high prices while Boise is growing, I'll take it in taxes to pay for that growth, I'll take it again in taxes to support those after the growth slows, I'll take it in crime and poverty when growth stalls. I'll take it with high prices while Boise is growing....
 

I am getting old and have already seen the cycle and now I am bitching about it, like the old men before me. As the generations progress through the process each generation is provided less lube than the one preceding it, but how would I know. There is only one common denominator throughout the American cycle for the lower and middle class. 

Edited March 12 by frankendat
soft wording

[frankendat]

13 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

Yes, but who said anything about not paying the APR from the start? My point is the amount being paid towards the principle is a shallow curve that effectively stalls the borrowers rate of earned equity against the principal. I'm no expert, but this loan structure clearly favors the banks profit margin. They hold the deed to the property along with your down payment as collateral, and require you to carry loan insurance to further mitigate their risk. The longer this ratio is in their favor,  ie pre tipping point, in the event of foreclosure they'er taking more in collateral, and paying you less in accrued equity. For example, with this inverse ratio curve structure, the first payment on a 30 yr loan, you're paying 95% towards the interest aka bank profit, and only 5% towards the principal amount aka your earned equity. It's so lucrative in fact, banking is the most profitable industry in the US economy today, and all they do is figure out new ways to take more of your money.

 

We bailed these pigs out when their greed shit the entire economic bed, so they should flatten that curve to a linear payment ratio from the start to make it (forgive me) more *equitable*. 😜 Payments would remain constant, but the 6% goes toward interest on the remaining balance each month, and the rest goes directly to pay down the principal. Does this sound fair, or even make any sense? 

Thisismatt's point regarding equity notwithstanding, my proposal is more akin to a "fee" or loan "charge" as I believe both the economic and legal systems intentional over complicate as a method of control. 

My proposal from an earlier post:
Now there are fees and general bank fuckery, but keeping simple. Interest is a racket unto itself created to obscure usury and sharp dealing, simple says I give you $100,000 for a house. I think that house is worth more than $100k and for giving you the 100k to buy the house, I want $200k on a payment plan, which we agree, not to exceed 30 years. If you do not make payments as promised, I keep whatever money paid and the house and sue you if the house and what has been paid is less than $200k.  

[paradime]

33 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

So Trump has posted a bond for $90+ million for his E Gene Carrol appeal backed by Chubb who was insuring the Nord Stream 2 pipeline but ceased in early '21. That's Putin territory. This should be investigated some. Did Trump put up collateral or maybe Putin? It's a bit of a stretch but? 

 

I'm sure the Dems will make hay of it, just like the Reps would if the shoe was on the other foot. Fact is, Chubb insures many projects, and bonds in their line of business.

[paradime]

9 minutes ago, frankendat said:

Thisismatt's point regarding equity notwithstanding, my proposal is more akin to a "fee" or loan "charge" as I believe both the economic and legal systems intentional over complicate as a method of control. 

My proposal from an earlier post:
Now there are fees and general bank fuckery, but keeping simple. Interest is a racket unto itself created to obscure usury and sharp dealing, simple says I give you $100,000 for a house. I think that house is worth more than $100k and for giving you the 100k to buy the house, I want $200k on a payment plan, which we agree, not to exceed 30 years. If you do not make payments as promised, I keep whatever money paid and the house and sue you if the house and what has been paid is less than $200k.  

It's not too complicated if you consider the interest rate as being the loan fee stretched out over the length of the loan. 

[frankendat]

8 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

You said "Sold out show". People piss and moan about prices but the shows are still selling out. Where I live it is still long waiting periods to get in a restaurant. There are more and more brand new boats on the water continuing the arms race of who has the largest and most outboards on the back of thier boats. Want a new boat? Wait period and no deals. Nobody seems to give a shit about prices. Once the shows stop selling out and boats start sitting on the lot we won't see any price drops.

Your post inspired double reply. I see a different, yet the same, phenomena in Boise with new trucks and houses. A new F150 with options is over 50k (I have seen ads as high as 65k) my home valuation is insane. How is Boise growing so quickly? Who are all the people able to afford these prices? Where do they work? Are they hiring? The monthly payment on an average home in purchased in Boise in 2023, with the average interest rate and 20% down was more than my gross monthly income. 

[frankendat]

2 minutes ago, paradime said:

It's not too complicated if you consider the interest rate as being the loan fee stretched out over the length of the loan. 

But mine is simple. No ending up with decimals or 1/2 cents. One total, one time done and dusted.

[paradime]

4 minutes ago, frankendat said:

But mine is simple. No ending up with decimals or 1/2 cents. One total, one time done and dusted.

I think I understand what you're saying. You want to borrow some amount of money and the bank tells you their total fee up front and you pay that amount off over a given period of time? 

[datzenmike]

21 minutes ago, frankendat said:

Your post inspired double reply. I see a different, yet the same, phenomena in Boise with new trucks and houses. A new F150 with options is over 50k (I have seen ads as high as 65k) my home valuation is insane. How is Boise growing so quickly? Who are all the people able to afford these prices? Where do they work? Are they hiring? The monthly payment on an average home in purchased in Boise in 2023, with the average interest rate and 20% down was more than my gross monthly income. 

 

They are Californians who shit their nest and have to move on.

[datzenmike]

37 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

I'm sure the Dems will make hay of it, just like the Reps would if the shoe was on the other foot. Fact is, Chubb insures many projects, and bonds in their line of business.

 

Yup. Six degrees of Vladimir Putin. Definitely some connection there.

[paradime]

14 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

They are Californians who shit their nest and have to move on.

 

More people work remotely these days, so they're leaving the cities to where their quality of life goes up, and their money goes much further. They bring their self centered attitude with them, price out the locals, and they shit in their nest again.