destruction of america

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, Thomas Perkins said:

It all went down hill when Hugh Hefner left us...Calif hasn't been right since...Pamela Anderson for president...

 

The same Pam Anderson who for years has strip mined the earths crust for silicon with no regard for the consequences?

 

 

[Duncan]

Where is all this electricity going to come from?  A couple days ago, I had YET AGAIN almost an entire day with no power.  This happens frequently around my place, but I believe the local company's equipment is partially to blame.  I know California's electric grid doesn't provide enough power during high demand times.

 

I'm seriously looking at an emergency backup generator systems.  It bugs the shit out of me when my power goes off.

 

I haven't looked at the price for solar recently.  I know a few years ago, I checked, and a system for my wife and I would never hit the breakeven point in either of our lifetimes..

 

 

 

 

 

[angliagt]

           Try the one recommended by Obama - Solyndra.

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Where is all this electricity going to come from?  A couple days ago, I had YET AGAIN almost an entire day with no power.  This happens frequently around my place, but I believe the local company's equipment is partially to blame.  I know California's electric grid doesn't provide enough power during high demand times.

 

I'm seriously looking at an emergency backup generator systems.  It bugs the shit out of me when my power goes off.

 

I haven't looked at the price for solar recently.  I know a few years ago, I checked, and a system for my wife and I would never hit the breakeven point in either of our lifetimes..

 

 

 

 

 

I ran the numbers for solar at my place again last week, after paying the power bill. Our power keeps going up, it's still not bad comparatively, but every little bit.... Anyway, despite Elon and the new technology hype the reality hasn't changed. If you have the cash to front the install, it isn't awful. Consider it like prepaying your power bill. Since power prices keep going up, you made a decent investment--maybe. Those more financially savvy might explain that an investment, which keeps pace with inflation, isn't a good investment, but for those of us without, it is better than nothing. Those without liquidity to purchase outright, current finance rates consume potential upside.

[paradime]

Not sure about Idaho, but some states have incentive programs, and if you have a smart meter your power company may have shared peak power programs that can offset much of the up front cost.  

[datzenmike]

Pretty sure the power company will have that just for the 'optics' but try to sell them power?????? yeah they tell you what they will pay for it after you pay for permits and installation etc. etc. You'd be further ahead to sell to your neighbor next door... but of course that's probably illegal.

[frankendat]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

Not sure about Idaho, but some states have incentive programs, and if you have a smart meter your power company may have shared peak power programs that can offset much of the up front cost.  

 

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Pretty sure the power company will have that just for the 'optics' but try to sell them power?????? yeah they tell you what they will pay for it after you pay for permits and installation etc. etc. You'd be further ahead to sell to your neighbor next door... but of course that's probably illegal.

Paradime I hear stories about this and that program, but I contacted the "green" organizations and aside from having some control over your personal power consumption (which I  consider a pulling positive)it is not an affordable option. I look at this only from a my cost perspective, a view that gathers ire and disparagement from rich and dependent democrats. The same who buy the mansions in my neighborhood and the same who enforce restrictions on solar power panel placement on old homes, because it is not "historic".

 

Datzenmike's point is well taken and Idaho Power lobbies hard every year for more control or discontinuing net metering, which is the "buying back" part of consumer power generation. With my luck, I will find an angle to accomplish solar,  right before any and all positive financial options expire.

 

To be clear, I like the idea of power independence. There is geothermal in Idaho and "low heat" power generators. I looked at low heat because I am on a bit of  a hill and if there is geothermal below my property it would be deep. With the downturn of oil and gas production in the United States, there are out of work drillers, leading to drilling deals. BUT I didn't understand (like happens often) the bullshit factor. The driller of a well must have a 20k bond, the person hiring the driller must maintain an additional bond of 20k for a year. There are a number of additional requirements to drilling (to avoid hot water contamination with any cold water) that skyrocket the price to what would buy more power than a family would ever need.

[Jesse C.]

12 hours ago, frankendat said:

Easy now, according to the new liberals invading Idaho (and the ones already here) woodstoves are nasty air quality polluters. Depending on air quality and atmospheric conditions there are "burning bans" and peasants attempting to stay warm with woodstoves are fined and scorned. I grew up in a home heated exclusively from wood, when the winters in Idaho made national news, but that was when we were unwashed savages. Electric is the refined liberal way to power everything--but wait, isn't electric produced by burning natural gas and..shudder...coal? Ha, Idaho has more Hydro power than most States--but aren't there current liberal and casino banked tribal lobbies working to breech the dams, because they claim that the dams are bad for fish? Thank God for all the new wind turbines...impossible to meet current demand, not to mention increased demand of electric cars and now electric heat. Ah HA, used wind turbine blades have been successfully converted into small homes. Small homes are easier to heat and can be fitted with solar panels, don't forget about solar. All the peasants needed for the service industries can be snug in their wind turbine blade houses, powered by whatever solar is available (There will still be a power grid it will cost prohibitive to peasants) eating soylent green...can't wait.

 

Come on down to the Wind Farm and snatch up some blades for that new home! LOL! 

 

[Duncan]

California just recently passed a law changing (lowering) the rate at which the utilitiy companies pay you for solar-generated electricity.  From what I understand, they now pay below wholesale rate, but charge retail rates on what they sell you.  I am sure that's over simplifying, but that's the basics of it.

 

California has never had a fee increase or tax hike it didn't like..

 

I do like it here, but my wife will never leave.

 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

Again, sell excess to neighbors on each side of you for a better rate than they pay for. Charge their batteries for them with an extension cord or something.

 

 

 

[angliagt]

6 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

 

Come on down to the Wind Farm and snatch up some blades for that new home! LOL! 

 

  

         I read where those aren't recycleable - just how "Green" is that?

[thisismatt]

Why would they pay retail or even wholesale rates when they are responsible for all of the infrastructure? 

 

My buddy in California on solar told me the other day that even though he generates more power that he uses he still has to pay about $11 a month, but if he completely disconnected from the grid they would charge him $23 a month.

[paradime]

10 hours ago, frankendat said:

 

Paradime I hear stories about this and that program, but I contacted the "green" organizations and aside from having some control over your personal power consumption (which I  consider a pulling positive)it is not an affordable option. I look at this only from a my cost perspective, a view that gathers ire and disparagement from rich and dependent democrats. The same who buy the mansions in my neighborhood and the same who enforce restrictions on solar power panel placement on old homes, because it is not "historic".

 

Datzenmike's point is well taken and Idaho Power lobbies hard every year for more control or discontinuing net metering, which is the "buying back" part of consumer power generation. With my luck, I will find an angle to accomplish solar,  right before any and all positive financial options expire.

 

To be clear, I like the idea of power independence. There is geothermal in Idaho and "low heat" power generators. I looked at low heat because I am on a bit of  a hill and if there is geothermal below my property it would be deep. With the downturn of oil and gas production in the United States, there are out of work drillers, leading to drilling deals. BUT I didn't understand (like happens often) the bullshit factor. The driller of a well must have a 20k bond, the person hiring the driller must maintain an additional bond of 20k for a year. There are a number of additional requirements to drilling (to avoid hot water contamination with any cold water) that skyrocket the price to what would buy more power than a family would ever need.

 

I get the frustration with wing nut Democrats, but how are rich dependent liberals judging you for using a cost benefit analysis to determine wether solar is right for your home? Sounds like a  F'n solar hippie pressure sales tactic. 

 

If you live in a historical preservation area you know the drill. Same as CC&Rs in a homogenized development community. With Boise's 9 Rep to 1 Dem ratio, how could the Historical Preservation Committee become a liberal bastion? That's traditionally been the domain of puckered up church ladies and retired city planers with horn rim glasses. 

 

When over-caffeinated liberals are trying to put solar panels on anything that doesn't move, why would they be putting up road blocks in Boise? No the surface, it looks like Idaho has very favorable tax incentives, rebates, and low interest loans for both solar and wind.

https://www.energysage.com/local-data/solar-rebates-incentives/id/

That said, it sounds like accessing those programs in a serious PITA, but why? Follow the money.

 

Bottom line, large scale power independence is a threat to energy companies. This industry has a powerful lobby, and it donates BIG campaign money to candidates favorable to their cause. In 2022 Rep candidates got 85% of their money, and Dems got 15%. This ratio is reversed when it comes to the tech industry. It's less about political parties than it is how corporations protect their business interests. Our "political parties" are corporate interest window dressing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/788056/us-oil-and-gas-lobbying-spend-by-party/

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=e01

[john510]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

California just recently passed a law changing (lowering) the rate at which the utilitiy companies pay you for solar-generated electricity.  From what I understand, they now pay below wholesale rate, but charge retail rates on what they sell you.  I am sure that's over simplifying, but that's the basics of it.

 

California has never had a fee increase or tax hike it didn't like..

 

I do like it here, but my wife will never leave.

 

 

 

 

California hasn't paid anybody for their excess electricity production for many years.What you get is a credit that you won't ever receive unless you use more juice than what you generate.Those solar leasing companies might have different rules.I set my system up so that I pay very little at the end of the year.Last years bill was 22 bucks.Why would anybody want to over generate when you never reap the rewards ? 

[john510]

43 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

Why would they pay retail or even wholesale rates when they are responsible for all of the infrastructure? 

 

My buddy in California on solar told me the other day that even though he generates more power that he uses he still has to pay about $11 a month, but if he completely disconnected from the grid they would charge him $23 a month.

How can they charge you for NOT being connected to the grid ? What are they going to do if you tell them to eat shit ? Turn off your power ? LOL.

[datzenmike]

It's for the extra power you generate that you refuse to sell to them. Got to make it up somehow. You are a piece of meat on a spit getting fucked from both ends.

[Jesse C.]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

How can they charge you for NOT being connected to the grid ? What are they going to do if you tell them to eat shit ? Turn off your power ? LOL.

 

There was local story a few years ago about a guy who was totally disconnected, but, they still sent him a bill, he fought it, but apparently the rule is that if a line goes to your property, you have to pay for it. Even if it is not connected! 

 

Yeah, this is a total fucking snow job! 

[jbirds510]

Lets not forget in Ca you pay about 1.25% property tax and as soon as you drop that system on your pad you are now begging to get assessed. 30k WILL make a noteworthy increase in your tax debt. Ftw.

[datzenmike]

Sell excess power to pay the extra tax per year.

[frankendat]

18 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

 

Come on down to the Wind Farm and snatch up some blades for that new home! LOL! 

 

Is that real? Their just burying those 20ft+ blades? There really is/was a study demonstrating, while no longer certified for turbine use the blades exceed strength and rigidity requirements for residential construction. At minimum they could be sectioned for roof or covered patio projects. Why didn't they give them away or even pay to have them repurposed? Burying the blades? How is this not a massive scandal? I am badgered to bring my own non-plastic straw to restaurants, but burying hundreds of thousands of pounds of whatever high tech super carbon plastic bullshit gets a pass?!

[frankendat]

11 hours ago, paradime said:

 

I get the frustration with wing nut Democrats, but how are rich dependent liberals judging you for using a cost benefit analysis to determine wether solar is right for your home? Sounds like a  F'n solar hippie pressure sales tactic. 

 

If you live in a historical preservation area you know the drill. Same as CC&Rs in a homogenized development community. With Boise's 9 Rep to 1 Dem ratio, how could the Historical Preservation Committee become a liberal bastion? That's traditionally been the domain of puckered up church ladies and retired city planers with horn rim glasses. 

 

When over-caffeinated liberals are trying to put solar panels on anything that doesn't move, why would they be putting up road blocks in Boise? No the surface, it looks like Idaho has very favorable tax incentives, rebates, and low interest loans for both solar and wind.

https://www.energysage.com/local-data/solar-rebates-incentives/id/

That said, it sounds like accessing those programs in a serious PITA, but why? Follow the money.

 

Bottom line, large scale power independence is a threat to energy companies. This industry has a powerful lobby, and it donates BIG campaign money to candidates favorable to their cause. In 2022 Rep candidates got 85% of their money, and Dems got 15%. This ratio is reversed when it comes to the tech industry. It's less about political parties than it is how corporations protect their business interests. Our "political parties" are corporate interest window dressing.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/788056/us-oil-and-gas-lobbying-spend-by-party/

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=e01

You type truth. Energy generation was another one of those rabbit holes I spent a few months of free time trying to understand, only to raise my blood pressure an add another chip to my shoulder. Solar looks great at the  20ft view and not terrible a little closer. Truthfully, it is not a bad deal if you have the upfront cash and you take advantage of all the programs. It is not a great deal, you could break even in a decade, a little bad luck would make it a crap deal. There are good deals to be  had on A123 batteries and making your own powerwall would really curb your electric bill. Battery longevity (they keep telling us keeps getting better, but buying the latest and greatest batteries will submarine your budget and "breaking even" becomes a distant memory). Used A123 batteries 85%-94% remaining life, should  hold for at least a decade, but batteries are fickle, temp and discharge/recharge can lessen effective life dramatically.(bad luck, again)

Selling power to your neighbors direct with your own power cord, would be a method to recoup money. I can think of multiple ordinances that violates without even trying, report it and will require certification and zoning exceptions, will not be cheap. The on the down low option could bring a number of infraction, but the big bitch would be the unreported income tax and whatever power generation/selling taxes you're skipping. Normally, not a huge risk, but that massive force, recently added to the IRS has to do something...

As for Idaho politics, I am glad Idaho is a red state, but when it comes to taking from those with less and giving to those with those with more, Idaho is damned bipartisan. 

[john510]

10 hours ago, jbirds510 said:

Lets not forget in Ca you pay about 1.25% property tax and as soon as you drop that system on your pad you are now begging to get assessed. 30k WILL make a noteworthy increase in your tax debt. Ftw.

I've never heard of anybody getting a property tax increase after installing solar.

[Jesse C.]

4 hours ago, frankendat said:

Is that real? Their just burying those 20ft+ blades? There really is/was a study demonstrating, while no longer certified for turbine use the blades exceed strength and rigidity requirements for residential construction. At minimum they could be sectioned for roof or covered patio projects. Why didn't they give them away or even pay to have them repurposed? Burying the blades? How is this not a massive scandal? I am badgered to bring my own non-plastic straw to restaurants, but burying hundreds of thousands of pounds of whatever high tech super carbon plastic bullshit gets a pass?!

 

Yes

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wind-turbine-blades-landfills/

 

[thisismatt]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

I've never heard of anybody getting a property tax increase after installing solar.

Supposedly it's earmarked to not cause a property tax increase. 

[jbirds510]

3 hours ago, john510 said:

I've never heard of anybody getting a property tax increase after installing solar.

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/solar/does-solar-increase-home-value/

traditionally its 2% annually post purchase however I know two people personally that recently pulled permits for "home improvements" and triggered a reassessment based on new comps for fair market value.  No additional square footage, just roof and solar + energy storage capacity.

1 hour ago, thisismatt said:

Supposedly it's earmarked to not cause a property tax increase. 

see above.

Edited January 11, 2023 by jbirds510