Cuz Merica

[Jesse C.]

Well my fellow Americans, you better get to Costco and get yours today! Because either way, we are fucked! 

 

Too bad Bernie is pretty much out, he would have given it to us for free if he won. 

 

[datzenmike]

Yeah, violence is not new in politics but it has been quiet for some time. Are you due for it?

 

Ted is a male Hillary and I don't like him. My 'inner senses' writhe with repulsion when I see or hear either of them. They are disgusting. Untrustworthy, like they are trying to seduce you into doing something. Trump I just dislike but it's a more honest dislike. Bernie I don't mind, wish he was doing better.

 

God help you all.....

[dhp123166]

What do you mean "we" gave? I didn't use the term "immigrants" either, that was all you John. "You cant arrest a Hispanic protester without being labeled a racist." Alzheimer's maybe? 

 

Interesting how it's suddenly pointless when you realize you have no valid point. No, I'm actually from San Diego. Grew up in Mission Hills, and moved to SF when I was 25. My step father is Mexican AMERICAN, bother and sisters half Mexican.

 

Personally I would like our borders MUCH more secure, and have every non citizen working here on a visa, with the ability to earn citizenship legally. The only difference is, I know neither of these lying ass candidate will ever do that. We could have done something about our border security decades ago, so why do you think our border with Mexico is still so fucking porous? Who benefits from cheep undocumented labor being paid under the table? Wake up John, there are very powerful industries who want to keep it that way. Meanwhile the media plays along by scapegoating the evil immigrants so the public doesn't hold the illegal employer responsible for fucking up the honest job market. At this point, if we were able to deport the 14,000,000 illegal works here already, our economy would collapse. This is not as cut and dried as Trump, or Hildy are framing it. They're sure as hell using it to get thier votes though. I've heard the same shit every four years, and look what's happened. NOTHING

 

Yes, deport all them nasty illegal immigents (sic.) I want to pay $7.50 for a head of lettuce and $8.00 for a pint of fresh strawberries.

 

Oh you didn't think of that?

 

I have never seen a white picker (maybe they exist but not in these parts).

 

Picking is the worst job ever and whitey ain't gonna do it. 

 

Hell, Mexicans don't even wanna do it anymore, it's all central American Indigents.

[dhp123166]

On the other hand, increased reliance on cheap foreign labor (read;slaves) was one of the contributing factors in the decline and fall of the Roman Empire...

[KoHeartsGPA]

Yes, deport all them nasty illegal immigents (sic.) I want to pay $7.50 for a head of lettuce and $8.00 for a pint of fresh strawberries.

 

Oh you didn't think of that?

 

I have never seen a white picker (maybe they exist but not in these parts).

 

Picking is the worst job ever and whitey ain't gonna do it. 

 

Hell, Mexicans don't even wanna do it anymore, it's all central American Indigents.

On the other hand, increased reliance on cheap foreign labor (read;slaves) was one of the contributing factors in the decline and fall of the Roman Empire...

+100

 

Well said, sir.

[Mattndew76]

Yes, deport all them nasty illegal immigents (sic.) I want to pay $7.50 for a head of lettuce and $8.00 for a pint of fresh strawberries.

 

Oh you didn't think of that?

 

I have never seen a white picker (maybe they exist but not in these parts).

 

Picking is the worst job ever and whitey ain't gonna do it. 

 

Hell, Mexicans don't even wanna do it anymore, it's all central American Indigents.

 

Automated picking is gaining ground. Harvesting will drop to a very low number of humans involved at all. 

[VFR800]

Intel is doing good for USA by sacking 12,000 people and then applying for the H1-B visas to replace those jobs. 

[dhp123166]

Automated picking is gaining ground. Harvesting will drop to a very low number of humans involved at all. 

Is it?

 

Maybe in the large scale commercial farms which can afford initial tool up.

 

I don't see anything automatic going on around here and this area I live in is an agricultural hotbed.

 

For example, Ventura County leads the nation in celery production.

[Mattndew76]

Is it?

 

Maybe in the large scale commercial farms which can afford initial tool up.

 

I don't see anything automatic going on around here and this area I live in is an agricultural hotbed.

 

For example, Ventura County leads the nation in celery production.

 

As long as you can continue to get cheap labor that (cheap labor) will win out. Once the need for automation rises people will become irrelevant.

 

Its why I said it is "becoming" more popular. It may not be in your area currently but that doesn't dictate nation wide trends. The price of automation is still less than employing people. 

 

Here is a perfect example as having less human hands involved for grape harvesting.

 

 

Heres your lettuce example.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i62juq8Euk

 

Humans will be reduced in the production environment. Like the video has said 2 low skill low pay positions gone and 1 better paid tech position hired. The one new position costs less than employing 2 and the machine has the output of 6 people.

[bilzbobaggins]

Hope the robots don't dook in the field and give me robo-ebola lettuce

[KoHeartsGPA]

Matt & dhp, you're both correct in picking our crops arguments.

[thisismatt]

I'd be okay if no one picked celery.

[bilzbobaggins]

I'd be okay if no one picked celery.

 

Peanut butter differs in opinion

[Mattndew76]

I know DHP is correct. I wasn't refuting him.

 

I was clarifying my comment as future tense and not current status.

[paradime]

As long as you can continue to get cheap labor that (cheap labor) will win out. Once the need for automation rises people will become irrelevant.

 

Its why I said it is "becoming" more popular. It may not be in your area currently but that doesn't dictate nation wide trends. The price of automation is still less than employing people. 

 

Here is a perfect example as having less human hands involved for grape harvesting.

 

 

Heres your lettuce example.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i62juq8Euk

 

Humans will be reduced in the production environment. Like the video has said 2 low skill low pay positions gone and 1 better paid tech position hired. The one new position costs less than employing 2 and the machine has the output of 6 people.

 

This might be true in wealthy european markets where farmers have serious trouble finding reliable seasonal workers. I'm all for automation in farming. No one would be happier than me if farming labor costs were to go down and in turn disincentives illegal immigration. Seems like a perfect Win Win, but then we need to come back to reality, where's the incentive to spring for the big "tool up" when you have so much cheap undocumented labor? I'll bet government incentives for automation would be cheeper and more effective than building a 1,500 mile wall. 

[Mattndew76]

This might be true in wealthy european markets where farmers have serious trouble finding reliable seasonal workers. I'm all for automation in farming. No one would be happier than me if farming labor costs were to go down and in turn disincentives illegal immigration. Seems like a perfect Win Win, but then we need to come back to reality, where's the incentive to spring for the big "tool up" when you have so much cheap undocumented labor? I'll bet government incentives for automation would be cheeper and more effective than building a 1,500 mile wall. 

 

I agree the money would be well spent in no interest loans for small to mid size farmers needing the leg up. Self deportations might find its way into our structure.

 

To add to your thought this would also increase manufacturing in the regions around the agriculture too. 

[dhp123166]

I agree the money would be well spent in no interest loans for small to mid size farmers needing the leg up. Self deportations might find its way into our structure.

 

To add to your thought this would also increase manufacturing in the regions around the agriculture too. 

 

And that is the type of farm we find in this area, small to mid size.

 

Smaller fields over varied terrains and thanks to the endless summer of SoCal., they can turn out 2-3 different crops per year.

 

Just off the top of my head we got avocadoes, leafy vegetables, root vegetables, berries (straw and varied bushberries),  grape vineyards, and a wide variety of hand fruit including the citrus variety.

 

And let's not forget fresh cut flowers as well.

 

The machines you show pictures of look to be on factory farms and they are definitely suited to the type of crop they farm.

 

To be economically competitive with human labor a picking machine would have to be able to pick more than one crop, while being small enough to transport without too much headache.

 

I guess nothing is unfeasible but when it comes with the caveat of "and affordable"...well that can ratchet up the difficulty level!

[dhp123166]

Here is a human face behind the inflammatory rhetoric about illegal immigrant labor.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/13696-making-a-life-but-not-a-living-in-the-fields-lucrecia-camachos-story

 

People go through a lot of f!@%ing s!@# in this life and it is better for me to be compassionate than hateful.

[paradime]

I agree the money would be well spent in no interest loans for small to mid size farmers needing the leg up. Self deportations might find its way into our structure.

 

To add to your thought this would also increase manufacturing in the regions around the agriculture too. 

 

I hear you Matt. It's a slippery slope though. Too much automation could harm the overall economy if it's taking jobs from tax paying citizens. If we had serious scales of automated manufacturing coming back to the states, it would employ higher skilled middle class worker with oversight, maintenance, and engineering jobs. Would it be an "all boats rise equally" in such an economy, or would the low skilled worker get hit harder, while civil unrest and welfare costs eat up any real benefit? 

[Jesse C.]

Here is a human face behind the inflammatory rhetoric about illegal immigrant labor.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/13696-making-a-life-but-not-a-living-in-the-fields-lucrecia-camachos-story

 

People go through a lot of f!@%ing s!@# in this life and it is better for me to be compassionate than hateful.

 

Yes, it is a bad situation, but, the real fix lies in Mexico, not the U.S. but yet the "Proud to Be Mexican" crowd wants the U.S. to be the fix. They scream and shout here all they want, in English no less, yet never really look into why they are here. Why are they not marching in Mexico and their politics? Because it is easier here. Plain and simple. 

 

I knew people that worked in those fields, I knew them on both sides of the border, trying to get in, stay in and find work. The stories are bad and good. Most want to go back home, but, there is nothing there, 

[Mattndew76]

I hear you Matt. It's a slippery slope though. Too much automation could harm the overall economy if it's taking jobs from tax paying citizens. If we had serious scales of automated manufacturing coming back to the states, it would employ higher skilled middle class worker with oversight, maintenance, and engineering jobs. Would it be an "all boats rise equally" in such an economy, or would the low skilled worker get hit harder, while civil unrest and welfare costs eat up any real benefit? 

 

I think it would draw more into the middle.

 

Large swaths of skilled labor has since retired and most manufacturing facilities have and average age of 45-s60 employed currently. Entry level positions in an all boats rise econ are training for skilled position usually. 

 

I would venture to say the low skilled would have a higher chance at getting into skilled position due to age vacancies and need for bodies..

[KoHeartsGPA]

Do you guys think that a wall from the Pacific ocean in Ca to the gulf of Mexico in Tx is actually going to stop illegal immigrants and drugs?

 

Me......no it wont, it'll slow it down but not stop it, we have thousands more miles of coast lines and the entire border with our cannuck neighbours, so.... a "beautiful tall wall" isn't a solution imho...my alternative would be beefing up our border patrol and give them the tools necessary to be effective in their job, they're way under staffed, out gunned and red taped.

[paradime]

I think it would draw more into the middle.

 

Large swaths of skilled labor has since retired and most manufacturing facilities have and average age of 45-s60 employed currently. Entry level positions in an all boats rise econ are training for skilled position usually. 

 

I would venture to say the low skilled would have a higher chance at getting into skilled position due to age vacancies and need for bodies..

 

Sounds good to me, but I'm no economist.

 

Come to think of it, seems most of the time they don't even know what they're talking about. It really is an absurdly complex socio dynamic organism that moves way faster than our ability to understand it.

[Draker]

It would slow the folks that are literally just walking across the border. It won't stop drug flow. Won't stop drug tunnels.. won't stop a lot of stuff. But the existing wall is a joke.

[tr8er]

If we just stopped prosecuting drug manufacturers, and promoted more drugs from USA, then the import of drugs would go down. Isn't that all of your argument? Supply and demand?