How far would you go customizing?

[K_trip]

It's a rhetorical question ... but perhaps worth asking. We're a community, right?

A guy comes here to post his custom '73 King Cab 620 and gets "dog piled" upon for the way he customized his truck.  Someone even went as far as to quote the vehicle code (10.7.51 of the California motor vehicle code), about changing the vehicle identification numbers.  Fear mongers jump on, like they know something about the law, and claim someone will be going to jail.  Some of you guys are so full of (fill in the blank), you legal-nazi's really crack me up. :rofl:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/54423-nice-620-for-sale-king-cab/

 

 

News flash - Datsun didn't make a King Cab in 60's and yet no one complained about these customs:

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/5974-521-king-cab/

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/27671-1966-datsun-520-kingcab-project-act-2/

 

What if only the shell matches the title, with everything else swapped?

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/7446-project-mx520-top-secret/

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/49259-1967-520-gasser/

 

 

It seems to me, at least on this forum, the difference is either you're in the click or not. :blush:

 

It's not just Datsun's, people customize just about everything.  Look at all the motor swaps done.  There is good reasons why pre-smog cars and trucks in California have more value!  Cops and lawyers have engine swaps done (okay - some will get their hands dirty doing it themselves) on their pre-smog cars all the time.  These are custom vehicles, and there is a lot of stuff people do to make them the way they want them.   There is more than one way to get the job done.  A king cab can be done several ways, but in the end ... if it goes up for sale it's a matter for a potential buyer of a customized vehicle to sort out for themselves.  Ignorance of the law doesn't stand up in court, and I'm not talking about flipping a stolen vehicle or anything of the sort.

 

If I wanted to take my '74 620 and put it on a '79 frame, so I would have a L20B motor and ball joint front end, what's wrong with that? 

 

Now if I did the same with a longer frame, what would be the problem?  Answer - I would have a space between the cab and bed.  I could then put on a long bed (I know, they didn't have them in 1974), and I would have a '74 long bed truck for all of you to complain about.  Or I could stretch my cab, to the length of a king cab, with the standard bed ... it's the same deal, really - it is!

What I think would be cool, but no way would I take it on, would be to stretch the cab to the length of a king cab - but then stretch the doors, keeping the back of the cab standard.  Maybe a chopped top - stretched cab '74 Datsun 620 would get built by someone at some point, wouldn't that get someones panties in a bunch here :rofl:

 

[Z-train]

It's a rhetorical question ... but perhaps worth asking. We're a community, right?

 

A guy comes here to post his custom '73 King Cab 620 and gets "dog piled" upon for the way he customized his truck.  Someone even went as far as to quote the vehicle code (10.7.51 of the California motor vehicle code), about changing the vehicle identification numbers.  Fear mongers jump on, like they know something about the law, and claim someone will be going to jail.  Some of you guys are so full of (fill in the blank), you legal-nazi's really crack me up. :rofl:

Shove it up your ass.He commited a FELONY and then comes here trying to get another member's ass in the ringer also.

Read this and understand it:If you want to pull shit like this,then get the fuck off of Ratsun.

 

 

"if it goes up for sale it's a matter for a potential buyer of a customized vehicle to sort out for themselves. Ignorance of the law doesn't stand up in court, and I'm not talking about flipping a stolen vehicle or anything of the sort."

 

 

In-correct genius.The seller is on the hook for fraud,mis-representation and a few other charges.Plus he opens himself up to a civil suit from the buyer.

 

Ironic you use the word "ignorance" in you post.Because you are completely.

[datzenmike]

The above...

[K_trip]

Perhaps this post need oics?

 

 

Take it easy ... it was a question to the community here.

[freekwonder]

The pictures weren't loading for me, but did I read right that all he did that all he did was take his 76/77 truck and swap the vin plate on the dash to that of a vin plate from a 73, with out doing any real work?

[Z-train]

The pictures weren't loading for me, but did I read right that all he did that all he did was take his 76/77 truck and swap the vin plate on the dash to that of a vin plate from a 73, with out doing any real work?

Correct.

 

A FYI-in case anyone is wondering,in my post above,I WAS being polite.

[]2eDeYe]

 

If I wanted to take my '74 620 and put it on a '79 frame, so I would have a L20B motor and ball joint front end, what's wrong with that?

 

Nothing, if you have gone through the proper legal channels to register it as a built truck.

Just make sure you have both titles when you take it in for inspection. You will also now have to smog to 1979 standards (which is what some people are trying to avoid, illegally, using the same tactic you outlined).

 

 

 

If you don't get the title issues taken care of then the real problem comes when you get stopped by a cop and your frame vin doesn't match the cab vin and they impound the vehicle. Then your fucked out of your vehicle and it's possible you will be facing charges.  :)

[Tristin]

I believe the issue was not that he "customized" the truck it was that he VIN swapped and then never stated that he did so in his ad. He was trying to sell the truck as a vehicle year it was not without passing on that info. He was called out multiple times in the beginning that there was no way for it to be a '73, and he just said no one had to worry about it... 

 

Maybe Im a rare breed, but Ill admit there would be times that I would VIN swap a truck. But what I wouldnt do, is try to hide that fact if I ever decided to sell. Regardless of your day job, everyone knows its illegal. If youre willing to take the chance doing it and the buyer is willing to take the chance purchasing then thats one thing. But for a buyer who doesnt know any better, to walk into a thousands-of-dollars deal and potentially lose the truck because the previous owner hid information.... thats fucked up. 

[K_trip]

Cool, we have some intelligent comments added to this post :)

 

J2DeYe - you are correct that folks often try to get around the smog laws, which wasn't what I was talking about but it is a factor in this topic!

 

tristinGrind - the buyer who doesn't know any better is an issue, true enough.  Part of the reason for picking on that post was that very issue, but there is a lot to the subject if we want to dive into it.

 

 

This is not about "how to get around the law", I am just trying to promote an intelligent conversation here ... but maybe I picked the wrong forum?  I'm not suggesting that guy with the '73 king cab was right or wrong, it was convenient for my question.  Heck, if he's telling the truth he might have everything he need to get a new VIN installed by the CHP and be legit.  I've bought several cars with those tags on them, and driving them did not get me thrown in jail. :rofl:

 

Note: the smog laws clearly state they only apply to "exhaust emission controlled vehicles".  In 1961 California required PCV (the rest of the nation followed soon after), but the first exhaust emission standards didn't applied until the 1966 model year for passenger vehicles.  So - all exhaust emission controlled vehicles with engine changes must be inspected by an official referee station and must have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Vehicle Identification Label ...

 

1977 Toyota Land Cruiser with a 1972 Chevy V8 (old style BAR label)

 

 

1990 Mazda Miata with a 1990 Ford V8 (current style BAR label)

 

... so back to my question: how far would you go?

 

So far tristinGrind suggested how far he MIGHT go.  We've seen customs here where there is nothing but a shell with a VIN, the rest of the vehicle has been replaced with different components.  I suggested a pipe-dream of a 620 project, which I can't see my self really doing - but a chopped and stretched cab sounds cool to me.  I really like those earlier Datsun king cab projects, even with different frames and motors, it's a neat way to go IMHO

[Ratwagon1600]

Shove it up your ass.He commited a FELONY and then comes here trying to get another member's ass in the ringer also.Read this and understand it:If you want to pull shit like this,then get the fuck off of Ratsun."if it goes up for sale it's a matter for a potential buyer of a customized vehicle to sort out for themselves. Ignorance of the law doesn't stand up in court, and I'm not talking about flipping a stolen vehicle or anything of the sort."In-correct genius.The seller is on the hook for fraud,mis-representation and a few other charges.Plus he opens himself up to a civil suit from the buyer.Ironic you use the word "ignorance" in you post.Because you are completely.

Sheesh, and I though I was mr cranky pants!

 

It's a valid point though, down here once you swap vin numbers, plates etc it's a criminal offence.

 

Not along the lines of "oh my god, the police man is going to put my poor ass in jail", more along the lines of a big smack, monetary fine, criminal record and that's about it.

 

Apart from that, I,m all for customizing the beejeebus out of things, just (as much as possible) within the confines of the law :)

[freekwonder]

So far tristinGrind suggested how far he MIGHT go.  We've seen customs here where there is nothing but a shell with a VIN, the rest of the vehicle has been replaced with different components.  I suggested a pipe-dream of a 620 project, which I can't see my self really doing - but a chopped and stretched cab sounds cool to me.  I really like those earlier Datsun king cab projects, even with different frames and motors, it's a neat way to go IMHO

 

Nothing wrong with full customization, like the examples on this board, king cab 521, the 521 on the 720 frame, the 620 with the 240sx suspension/drivetrain, the 520 with the Miata drivetrain/suspension.  Customization is a wonderful world, the problem comes when you defraud buyers.

[Z-train]

The pictures of the "new" VIN tags are a non-sequitur.The issue wasn't a motor swap-it was a VIN swap-which is ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE.ANd then the "not telling people about it" just compounded it.Some things in life can't be had.Like a 73 KC.....WITHOUT a whole shit-pot of welding.

[K_trip]

^ keep it up all you want

 

 

 

... but I really wish you would stay off this topic. 

You obviously have nothing of value to ad here.

 

 

BACK TO THE QUESTION:  would you go this far?

http://jalopnik.com/exclusive-will-i-ams-900-000-one-of-a-kind-car-is-ac-299528633

 

[K_trip]

How about a Toyota Scout gaser? -

 

I wonder how much of the original truck is still there :blush:

[JoeCool]

Some of you can be some some real douchebags and assholes. I have seen it more than once here. Sheesh! Take a chill pill, stop trolling on the computer and go outside once in a while... GET A LIFE! B)

 

So far as customizing... I'll do what what I want with my vehicle, it's mine, and if you don't like it... GUESS WHAT? I DON'T GIVE A DAMN! If I had the money it would be slammed with airbags with a custom black and dark copper paintjob and rolling on 17" Centerline Billet wheels, too bad I am broke!

 

Do what you want with it, it's yours. Until someone starts footing the bill, their opinion is invalid.  But selling a VIN swapped vehicle without letting the buyer know about it is not just morally wrong, but illegal per federal laws. PERIOD. Swapping a VIN can be done legally, with paperwork. I have seen it done. But you still have to inform the buyer. Same goes for salvage title, total loss rebuild, etc.  Hell, my truck had an odometer discrepancy due to a gauge cluster swap. The previous owner had to inform me by law.

[w_datsun_a]

Just curious....not adding to either side here.  But where is the line drawn.  Yes, it is illegal to swap the VIN...also not cool to try to sell it that way to someone who is unsuspecting. How do people handle rusted out cabs onto otherwise good frames?  The cabs have VIN numbers.  How about people who do major swaps, grafting one car into another.  What would you report the car/truck as being?  The cab VIN or the frame VIN?

 

Seriously, I am not trying to flame or anything along these lines.  I am just trying to understand what is actually allowed. 

[Tristin]

Just curious....not adding to either side here.  But where is the line drawn.  Yes, it is illegal to swap the VIN...also not cool to try to sell it that way to someone who is unsuspecting. How do people handle rusted out cabs onto otherwise good frames?  The cabs have VIN numbers.  How about people who do major swaps, grafting one car into another.  What would you report the car/truck as being?  The cab VIN or the frame VIN?

 

Seriously, I am not trying to flame or anything along these lines.  I am just trying to understand what is actually allowed. 

 

To make it legal you have to take it to your DOL/HP with both titles to transfer the VINs. No one is saying you cant do a frame swap or a cab swap. What was brought up was taking a perfectly good truck and replacing the VIN tag on te dash so that he didnt have to pass smog anymore. Then after that he tried to sell the truck as a pre-smog vehicle when it in fact is not. Thats the root of that specific problem. 

 

No one here has any issues with customizing. We dont want people coming into our community and trying to defraud buyers with their illegal shenanigans. 

[datzenmike]

My '78 KC was stolen and rolled. My next door neighbor had a '76 or '77 KC and I got it and swapped the cab and the engine plate onto my '78 frame. I don't know how (i)legal that was but if it's a crime where's the victim? Next I replaced the frame with an '82 720 long bed from a wrecking yard. A frame that was super solid and not full of rot and fish plated. And the dash with and '85 720 4x4 so the VIN on it matches nothing. There are no smog checks no safety checks here just insure and drive. Now I may have broken some laws, I really don't know or much care as no one has been in any way defrauded. The chances of being stopped and the VIN being checked is extremely remote. There is no reason for a cop to do so unless there were a complaint or they were pissed off at me and needed an excuse to get me off the road. I have never given them reason to.

 

Now all this said, I am completely aware that out of the blue something might happen or the locals might start enforcing the law. On the way home there might be a check point. Only way I can see that is if lots of cars were being stolen and VIN's swapped or whatever. Even then VERY unlikely they would look twice at a POS '78 Datsun truck. (yeah I hear there's a big market for mix 'n match VIN on 620s after Leno) If they did, well it's a chance I take and I'm aware of it. 

 

Now as to selling... well that's totally OUT!!!! When I built this truck I knew from the start it was a one way ticket. It's been sitting in my back yard for the last 4-5 years.

[datzenmike]

BACK TO THE QUESTION:  would you go this far?

http://jalopnik.com/exclusive-will-i-ams-900-000-one-of-a-kind-car-is-ac-299528633

 

 

 

Not an any Datsun ever. On some other POS I would if I could. Hard to improve a Datsun don't you think?

[Z chopper]

hmmm what about street rods made from fibreglass shells that just have MSO and no vin, the frame doesn't even have a vin. The MSO can be used to help get a VIN but, only the body has MSO not the frame, engine or other components.

[thisismatt]

The majority of motor swap work done to Datsuns is illegal, but I don't hear anyone crying about it.  Swapping a motor without the federally mandated emissions components (eg cats) is also illegal everywhere.  Selling a vehicle with swapped VINs is one thing, but building it for yourself shouldn't be considered an issue.

[w_datsun_a]

To make it legal you have to take it to your DOL/HP with both titles to transfer the VINs. No one is saying you cant do a frame swap or a cab swap. What was brought up was taking a perfectly good truck and replacing the VIN tag on te dash so that he didnt have to pass smog anymore. Then after that he tried to sell the truck as a pre-smog vehicle when it in fact is not. Thats the root of that specific problem. 

 

No one here has any issues with customizing. We dont want people coming into our community and trying to defraud buyers with their illegal shenanigans. 

 

Ahhh, ok.  No problem with customization....just didn't know how people did it legally.  Pretty straight-forward.  Thanks for taking the time to answer my question!

[Z-train]

To make it legal you have to take it to your DOL/HP with both titles to transfer the VINs. No one is saying you cant do a frame swap or a cab swap. What was brought up was taking a perfectly good truck and replacing the VIN tag on te dash so that he didnt have to pass smog anymore. Then after that he tried to sell the truck as a pre-smog vehicle when it in fact is not. Thats the root of that specific problem. 

 

No one here has any issues with customizing. We dont want people coming into our community and trying to defraud buyers with their illegal shenanigans.

thanks ,you're correct.

[Z-train]

The majority of motor swap work done to Datsuns is illegal, but I don't hear anyone crying about it.  Swapping a motor without the federally mandated emissions components (eg cats) is also illegal everywhere.  Selling a vehicle with swapped VINs is one thing, but building it for yourself shouldn't be considered an issue.

Are you going to register it?

[bonvo]

i have watched the truck that your originally talking about there is nothing wrong with doing frame swaps or anything like that the problem is his motives and the legality of the title he swapped vins to make it a 73 so that he wouldnt have to smog it if he wanted to do it legally he would of had to of started with the 73 frame not the 79 because the frame and in turn the drive train and smog equipment are from the later truck and he just swapped vin numbers from 73 its illegal its not the fact that he did it its the fact that he did it to avoid smog and if he tries to sell the truck the new owner will have a hell of a time if they get busted im all for going balls to the wall on a build but it needs to be legal thats part of why i like central oregon there is no smog bullshit and almost anything is fair game