destruction of america

[john510]

13 minutes ago, 67_1600 said:

And the solution? Those affected won't have their votes counted in local races but will in federal races (president/house/senate).

 

Being in AZ, I was wondering if I might be one of those but it only affects people who got their driver's license prior to October 1996 and were issued a replacement and registered to vote after 2004. One voter was found to not be eligible to vote at all. But still, they would be just fine casting a federal vote just not local.

I honestly don't know what solution they could come up. Start with voter ID I guess would be a step in the right direction. I'm not a fan of computerized counting that's for sure. It used to work without computers. If the Dems would at least admit we might have a problem it would help. Every time this issue arises it's deny, deny, deny. Everything's perfectly secure when they win. They're against voter ID, if you want to prove everything's good why in the hell would you be against that ? Of all the things we do going through life that require an ID to be shown why isn't voting one of them ? 

Edited 22 hours ago by john510

[tr8er]

51 minutes ago, john510 said:

This can't be true. According to the Democrats and mainstream media there are no problems at all with legitimate voting. But Biden won the last election so of course everything was done perfectly. I wish Trump could win just so we can hear the left start crying about the stolen election. Like last time he won.

 

1 hour ago, Ooph! said:

 

Arizona admits that nearly 100,000 non-citizen 'voters' wrongly listed on voter rolls amid lawsuit

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/az-admits-nearly-100000-voters-incorrectly-listed-voter-rolls-amid?utm_source=mux&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=social-media-autopost

Help me understand this better.  After reading the article, 97,000 licensed drivers didn’t have their citizenship verified.  In Arizona you must be a citizen to get a license by law from what I see.  So the quantity of registered voters without citizenship should track with illegal immigrants who decided to try to get a drivers license in a state that they are not legally able to have.  This must be a very small number.  And instead of having the list checked, as homeland security offered to do, they are suing.  
 

headline looks like 100,000 illegal immigrant voters are registered.  When in reality it is likely a number well under 100 (speculating) who would still need to break the law by actually voting.  
 

Salacious headlines.  The info is all there, but written for its audience.    

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[bottomwatcher]

Yeah the headline and actual meat of the article seemed like 2 different things. 

[bottomwatcher]

1 minute ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

If you go to rural Georgia probably in 4th behind the "Jesus 2024" signs. I didn't know he was on the ticket but a much better candidate than what we have. Good luck Georgia!

[john510]

1 hour ago, tr8er said:

 

Help me understand this better.  After reading the article, 97,000 licensed drivers didn’t have their citizenship verified.  In Arizona you must be a citizen to get a license by law from what I see.  So the quantity of registered voters without citizenship should track with illegal immigrants who decided to try to get a drivers license in a state that they are not legally able to have.  This must be a very small number.  And instead of having the list checked, as homeland security offered to do, they are suing.  
 

headline looks like 100,000 illegal immigrant voters are registered.  When in reality it is likely a number well under 100 (speculating) who would still need to break the law by actually voting.  
 

Salacious headlines.  The info is all there, but written for its audience.    

My point is that after all these denials (Arizona and Georgia) now they're admitting something went wrong. It's a little late to care now isn't it ? Serious question, let's say the last election get's re-voted because there were so many issues and both sides want honesty. Does Biden win again ? As close as it was in several swing states I'm still not convinced things were done right considering some of the shenanigans that occurred at the most convenient times. There are reasons to never admit to voter fraud. It would cause so many issues with trust (it has) and we'd never trust this shit again unless sweeping changes were made. Arizona and Georgia denied everything because at some point the problem would go away. Years later they admit to problems. How convenient when it's beyond too late to do anything about.

[tr8er]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

I honestly don't know what solution they could come up. Start with voter ID I guess would be a step in the right direction. I'm not a fan of computerized counting that's for sure. It used to work without computers. If the Dems would at least admit we might have a problem it would help. Every time this issue arises it's deny, deny, deny. Everything's perfectly secure when they win. They're against voter ID, if you want to prove everything's good why in the hell would you be against that ? Of all the things we do going through life that require an ID to be shown why isn't voting one of them ? 

Essentially it comes down to what should be obvious.  And I expect you know this.  If voter ID was required, it would unevenly impact certain groups of valid legal voters.  Those populations currently lean more left than right.  This has incentivized the right to cast doubt on the election, and the exhaduration of illegal votes.  A.  it would lead presumably to the end of mail in voting.  B. It would impact african-american, foreign speaking communities, and disabled in a negative way.  If you are making it harder to vote, you are effectively decreasing voter participation.   There are a ton of voter protections baked into the constitution which thus far has prevented any voter ID laws to pass legal scrutiny. 

 

Look at the actual data of voter fraud.  It is insanely slim when compared to the outcries lauded by the media.   

[tr8er]

6 minutes ago, john510 said:

My point is that after all these denials (Arizona and Georgia) now they're admitting something went wrong. It's a little late to care now isn't it ? Serious question, let's say the last election get's re-voted because there were so many issues and both sides want honesty. Does Biden win again ? As close as it was in several swing states I'm still not convinced things were done right considering some of the shenanigans that occurred at the most convenient times. There are reasons to never admit to voter fraud. It would cause so many issues with trust (it has) and we'd never trust this shit again unless sweeping changes were made. Arizona and Georgia denied everything because at some point the problem would go away. Years later they admit to problems. How convenient when it's beyond too late to do anything about.

Are you pointing to that article as evidence of problems amounting to justification for a re-vote?  Again, there is a stronger likelihood that the error lead to 0 illegal votes than it leading to over 100 legal votes.  Lets say it was 100 illegal votes, and 60% of those votes were for Biden.  That would be a delta of 20 votes.  I get that I cant verify these numbers, but look at the actual issue.  It's a tiny tiny issue.  And it's an issue with ID's, which is your proposed solution. 

 

I really see a significant trend of headline influence with this issue.  No meat, just conjecture.  And it's what MAGA wants to hear.  If it helps, you are about to see the absolute pinnacle of vote tampering as states refuse to certify election results.  It's going to be ugly.  And it wont be based on facts.    

[john510]

5 minutes ago, tr8er said:

Are you pointing to that article as evidence of problems amounting to justification for a re-vote?  Again, there is a stronger likelihood that the error lead to 0 illegal votes than it leading to over 100 legal votes.  Lets say it was 100 illegal votes, and 60% of those votes were for Biden.  That would be a delta of 20 votes.  I get that I cant verify these numbers, but look at the actual issue.  It's a tiny tiny issue.  And it's an issue with ID's, which is your proposed solution. 

 

I really see a significant trend of headline influence with this issue.  No meat, just conjecture.  And it's what MAGA wants to hear.  If it helps, you are about to see the absolute pinnacle of vote tampering as states refuse to certify election results.  It's going to be ugly.  And it wont be based on facts.    

No I'm not using that article to form an opinion with. I've had this mind set for some time now. When Trump lost last time I didn't think it was because of voter fraud. I think he just made an ass of himself at the debate with Biden. As time went by and stories were coming out I began to question things. You think the Trump people want to hear we have a problem with voting ? Just another one of your distorted misconceptions. What is it you believe anyway ? On one hand you're saying these articles are bogus and then in this reply you state we're about to see the absolute pinnacle of vote tampering etc.  Which is it honest or not ? I'll say this, if Trump does somehow manage to squeak out a win it won't mean I trust the system just because he won. Unlike a Trump hater that wants it both ways. Trump wins, they cheated. Harris wins the election was legit, Just like last time.

[Ooph!]

2 hours ago, tr8er said:

 

Help me understand this better.  After reading the article, 97,000 licensed drivers didn’t have their citizenship verified.  In Arizona you must be a citizen to get a license by law from what I see.  So the quantity of registered voters without citizenship should track with illegal immigrants who decided to try to get a drivers license in a state that they are not legally able to have.  This must be a very small number.  And instead of having the list checked, as homeland security offered to do, they are suing.  
 

headline looks like 100,000 illegal immigrant voters are registered.  When in reality it is likely a number well under 100 (speculating) who would still need to break the law by actually voting.  
 

Salacious headlines.  The info is all there, but written for its audience.    

 

1 hour ago, bottomwatcher said:

Yeah the headline and actual meat of the article seemed like 2 different things. 

 

I don't get it the very first line of the article spells it out ( emphasis mine )

 

"Arizona officials admitted to finding nearly 100,000 voters who had not provided proof of U.S. citizenship but still had full voting privileges"

 

The remainder of the article describes the two main arguments of what if anything to do about it.

 

And just to remind everyone of how narrow the margins can be remember Gore Vs Bush in Florida

The official vote tally was finally decided by less than 500 votes :

 

• Requests for recounts in Volusia, Broward, Palm Beach, and Miami-Dade: Bush wins by 225
• Florida Supreme Court order for all undervotes statewide: Bush wins by 430
• Florida Supreme Court order, as being implemented by counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes and undervotes: Bush wins by 493

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Ooph!

[jbirds510]

16 hours ago, paradime said:

More Chihuahua BS. No argument that slavery was a significant part of the financial system in the Southern states, but it ends there. The Civil War which was, for confederate states, about their own state's right to control trade tariffs. For the US government under Lincoln, it was about preserving the union, but freeing the slaves with the 13th amendment was only used as a tool to bring down the rebellion, win the war, and save the U in the USA. Not giving black people equal rights fucked the US up a tree.

 

The financial slavery we have today is a product of corporation's legal rights as individuals that was granted in the SCOTU ruling on Citizens United. Now, corporations control our democratic system, enslaved our system of government, and gave us the unchecked greed in our financial system. Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Thats spot on. Zero margin failure. 100% accurate. 
 

  Feankendat and tra8tor spoke of capitalism as tho there is but one type. There are MANY. To blame anything on capitalism you must first cite which form. To imply in order for a gain to occur a failure or loss must also occur  is asinine. There is however several values that span all forms, one being capitalism gives a person the opportunity to earn as much as they are willing to earn from production of goods to trade to service and that person is responsible solely for placing a value on the time the spend in the process. When you purchase or support you are agreeing to the endeavor takers terms. No one is FORCED to support a capitalist, we choose to if the terms meet our expectations. When we speak of corporate capitalism its possibly the most corrupt and bastardized version and often comes at a sacrifice of others but that isnt the core fundamental of the system. Clarity of detail is crucial. 

Edited 19 hours ago by jbirds510
Communist mice die in traps because they dont understand why the cheese is free

[paradime]

23 minutes ago, jbirds510 said:

Thats spot on. Zero margin failure. 100% accurate. 
 

  Feankendat and tra8tor spoke of capitalism as tho there is but one type. There are MANY. To blame anything on capitalism you must first cite which form. To imply in order for a gain to occur a failure or loss must also occur  is asinine. There is however several values that span all forms, one being capitalism gives a person the opportunity to earn as much as they are willing to earn from production of goods to trade to service and that person is responsible solely for placing a value on the time the spend in the process. When you purchase or support you are agreeing to the endeavor takers terms. No one is FORCED to support a capitalist, we choose to if the terms meet our expectations. When we speak of corporate capitalism its possibly the most corrupt and bastardized version and often comes at a sacrifice of others but that isnt the core fundamental of the system. Clarity of detail is crucial. 

I would add to that, given the power of product monopoly, control of legislation, and collaboration of price fixing, free market price fixing, free market capitalism serves them to enslave us.

[john510]

1 hour ago, tr8er said:

Essentially it comes down to what should be obvious.  And I expect you know this.  If voter ID was required, it would unevenly impact certain groups of valid legal voters.  Those populations currently lean more left than right.  This has incentivized the right to cast doubt on the election, and the exhaduration of illegal votes.  A.  it would lead presumably to the end of mail in voting.  B. It would impact african-american, foreign speaking communities, and disabled in a negative way.  If you are making it harder to vote, you are effectively decreasing voter participation.   There are a ton of voter protections baked into the constitution which thus far has prevented any voter ID laws to pass legal scrutiny. 

 

Look at the actual data of voter fraud.  It is insanely slim when compared to the outcries lauded by the media.   

Well if that doesn't sound exactly like parroting of the Democrats and their excuses to NOT have voter ID what does ? Why in the hell would it impact anybody any different because of skin color ? GTFO. Talk about a baseless copout. You're not making it harder to vote, bullshit. The disabled excuse is funny. My wife turned my ballot in when I was disabled. She had her ID and mine just in case. They never asked for it but we were prepared if they did. What you just said is that black people and foreigners are too lazy to cast a ballot if they have to show an ID. They have an ID and the same access as white people do to a ballot box. I'm going to say it, what a stupid fucking excuse for not having voter ID. And a racist assumption to boot. I'm done with this fucking clown. 

[paradime]

5 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

Arizona admits that nearly 100,000 non-citizen 'voters' wrongly listed on voter rolls amid lawsuit

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/az-admits-nearly-100000-voters-incorrectly-listed-voter-rolls-amid?utm_source=mux&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=social-media-autopost

 

Misleading headline. I read the article and while it's a valid suit to correct a flaw at the state level, the headline implies that 100,000 none citizens "voters" cast a ballot in 2020, but sighted finding only one incident of that. They had nearly 4 years to figure this out, but only acted on it 8 weeks before the election? Sounds like 2020 shit 2.0 because Trump is trailing in the polls. Immigrant, immigrants, immigrants!!!

Edited 18 hours ago by paradime

[datzenmike]

We are all slaves to (something) we are free but even this has limits, we can vote but it really doesn't count much. (either immoral idiot or laughing hyena) Nothing is within our control, education is fucked up, tripping over immigrants fighting over a cat, there's a storm surge of brown over the southern border, can't understand a word the immigrant barista is saying, everything is on fire or nothing but rain, farmers paid to not grow something, Chinese drugs rotting out the core of towns, homelessness, waste of skin drug overdose guy is tying up an ambulance, police/fire truck, ER staff and doctors that I might need!!! 

 

Just need to make it to 4:20 and it all goes away.  Well, in a drawer out of sight anyway.

 

 

 

 

[paradime]

 

[IZRL]

23 minutes ago, john510 said:

Well if that doesn't sound exactly like parroting of the Democrats and their excuses to NOT have voter ID what does ? Why in the hell would it impact anybody any different because of skin color ? GTFO. Talk about a baseless copout. You're not making it harder to vote, bullshit. The disabled excuse is funny. My wife turned my ballot in when I was disabled. She had her ID and mine just in case. They never asked for it but we were prepared if they did. What you just said is that black people and foreigners are too lazy to cast a ballot if they have to show an ID. They have an ID and the same access as white people do to a ballot box. I'm going to say it, what a stupid fucking excuse for not having voter ID. And a racist assumption to boot. I'm done with this fucking clown. 

So they open the borders to let millions of illegals in and then they try to pass a bill that allows people to vote without showing proof of citizenship. Which thankfully didn't pass even though 198 of dems voted for it.

 

Shows how ignorant they think we are to believe they're just looking out for the disabled and the minorities "that are too stupid to figure out how to get an ID". 

 

 

[tr8er]

26 minutes ago, john510 said:

Well if that doesn't sound exactly like parroting of the Democrats and their excuses to NOT have voter ID what does ? Why in the hell would it impact anybody any different because of skin color ? GTFO. Talk about a baseless copout. You're not making it harder to vote, bullshit. The disabled excuse is funny. My wife turned my ballot in when I was disabled. She had her ID and mine just in case. They never asked for it but we were prepared if they did. What you just said is that black people and foreigners are too lazy to cast a ballot if they have to show an ID. They have an ID and the same access as white people do to a ballot box. I'm going to say it, what a stupid fucking excuse for not having voter ID. And a racist assumption to boot. I'm done with this fucking clown. 

This is a partisan issue and not a new one.  My argument is aligned with the left as well as peer reviewed studies from multiple efforts to predict the impact.  http://ippsr.msu.edu/research/voter-identification-laws-and-suppression-minority-votes
 

whereas you tow your party line of voter fraud.  With dozens to hundreds of court battles and local investigations ruling out significant volumes of fraud.  
 

you will not trust the studies nor the investigations, nor the litigation.  That’s okay.  There could be a massive government conspiracy covering all of it up.  But I suppose I’m making the best decision I can with the data I have access to.  
 

and just to put a realness to the ID thing. Everyone hates the DMV.  Getting your drivers license renewed is something we put off until we have to.  And we do it reluctantly because we have to if we want to drive on public roads.  If we needed to go through that whole process just to vote?  Finding your three forms of ID.  Setting aside time.  Actually going there and likely taking an hour or more of your time.  It sounds like no big deal to you right?  Now try putting yourself in others shoes?   People who barely muster the effort to fill out their ballot that comes in the mail. A significant percentage of people will simply not go to the effort.  Imagine a homeless guy that does go through that effort.  Now they need to keep and not lose that ID card.  It’s hard as hell to not lose your wallet sleeping on the street.  
voting is a right.  Not a privilege.  
 

the big fraud I’m referring to this election will not be fixed with ID’s in the slightest.  The valid votes won’t count because local elections will not be certified as MAGA justices planted in battleground states will try to push the election to the house.  It’s going to be ugly as hell if Trump doesn’t get the votes.  And if he does, I would expect a flurry of state level challenges once again like Gore Bush.  

[frankendat]

9 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

The above. Financial slavery is pretty much self imposed. I have no credit cards and pay with cash (rarely these days) and my debit card. If I don't have the money, I don't buy it. By my age if I don't have it I don't need it. I don't drink, smoke, gamble or whore around. My needs are simple and my wife works. She gives me an 'allowance' that is more than I need but I can spend it on anything I want. Everything else is covered. 

I have mentioned we are certainly near the same age, grew up with some similar values and I want/try to do as you do. BUT, the government, via increased taxation (fines/jail), via property code compliance (fines,jail), via increasing vehicle registration and citations (fines/jail) for unregistered vehicles, add to that the cost of medical insurance, which keeps me from going bankrupt, but only covers part of mandatory Dr. visits and mandatory prescription medication. (If you don't follow Dr. orders than the insurance or the State or both will stop giving you a "break" and the prices get insane) make it damn, hard. 

It is looking more and more that a lawyer or a fence will be necessary to get the City off my back, latest quotes are 8k for the fence or 2k for the lawyer, but if we go to trial another 5k and still might be forced to fence. 

Financial slavery has not been self imposed, what else would you call it. Do what we say, it's your choice but if you don't we will take your money, assets, and home. Once you start complying and I started long long ago, there is a little voice in the back of your mind that wonders, "how far will this go?" and "what am I going to do if "asked" to do something I really disagree with?" 

The only safety that I have, is a safety few countries in the world allow non wealthy citizens, the ability to mount a significant resistance. (I do not count standing in front of a tank or lighting yourself on fire, "significant" resistance) The liberals and leftists damn with faint praise our governmental institutions, at the same time labeling them terrible, ineffective, a waste and the greatest force in the world. The test for a significant resistance is neither "winning" or surviving it would be to demonstrate the power of a small determined group or even individual. The group or individual would be destroyed, but if the effort was significant, then it would inspire other groups and the destruction of the United States would follow. I don't want that and as a practical matter, my life span in that world would be very short, but it is an answer to the question, "What happens if I refuse to be a slave?"

This year politics are close to home. 

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, tr8er said:

 

and just to put a realness to the ID thing. Everyone hates the DMV.  Getting your drivers license renewed is something we put off until we have to.  And we do it reluctantly because we have to if we want to drive on public roads.  If we needed to go through that whole process just to vote?  Finding your three forms of ID.  Setting aside time.  Actually going there and likely taking an hour or more of your time.  It sounds like no big deal to you right?  Now try putting yourself in others shoes?   People who barely muster the effort to fill out their ballot that comes in the mail. A significant percentage of people will simply not go to the effort.  Imagine a homeless guy that does go through that effort.  Now they need to keep and not lose that ID card.  It’s hard as hell to not lose your wallet sleeping on the street.  
voting is a right.  Not a privilege.  
 

 

Bullshit. And here, I will be the bad guy. If you do not speak, write, read English enough to fill out a ballot. If you did not enter the United States through a boarder and complete all pre entry checks that demonstrate you are not a threat to this country and I would add, bring something to the United States aside from desperation, because we have enough, than you shouldn't be able to vote. Isn't the latest push from the Democrats some stat that 90% of homeless have mental issues?  Another good reason  to deny voting. If that is what all the Democrat douchebags  are using to claim the destruction of America, then let's destroy it! I believe in charity and good will, but only in very very limited situations outside of the boarders of the United States. The latest stats from the right are 10 million crossed the boarder under the "open" policy, find the latest stat from the left and we can split the difference. Whatever, it is too damn many and I sure as hell don't want them voting.

[Ooph!]

3 hours ago, paradime said:

 

 

Okay that shed some light on it, I feel more at ease about it but it also seemed to bring up a couple more issues I'll need to ruminate over

[tr8er]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

Bullshit. And here, I will be the bad guy. If you do not speak, write, read English enough to fill out a ballot. If you did not enter the United States through a boarder and complete all pre entry checks that demonstrate you are not a threat to this country and I would add, bring something to the United States aside from desperation, because we have enough, than you shouldn't be able to vote. Isn't the latest push from the Democrats some stat that 90% of homeless have mental issues?  Another good reason  to deny voting. If that is what all the Democrat douchebags  are using to claim the destruction of America, then let's destroy it! I believe in charity and good will, but only in very very limited situations outside of the boarders of the United States. The latest stats from the right are 10 million crossed the boarder under the "open" policy, find the latest stat from the left and we can split the difference. Whatever, it is too damn many and I sure as hell don't want them voting.

Where is the evidence that they are voting in any significant quantity?  Stop them from coming in.  Sure.  It’s illegal.  Enforce it.  Aside from rumor and suggestion of ease, all of the significant accounting of the vote in 2020 failed to show it.  So you are suggesting violating a constitutional right, quite literally the foundational principal of the country, based on conjecture.  That is absolutely mad.  
 

also, English is not the only official language of the nation.  This is less argument and more just neat fact.  Hawaiian is a federally recognized official language and we are afforded equal access by language.   If I’m arrested, I can require representation in my language.  Which has led to some interesting problems here.  But my children are in a Hawaiian school and while they speak English fluently, they didn’t actually study English until 5th grade.  

[IZRL]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

We are all slaves to (something) we are free but even this has limits, we can vote but it really doesn't count much. (either immoral idiot or laughing hyena) Nothing is within our control, education is fucked up, tripping over immigrants fighting over a cat, there's a storm surge of brown over the southern border, can't understand a word the immigrant barista is saying, everything is on fire or nothing but rain, farmers paid to not grow something, Chinese drugs rotting out the core of towns, homelessness, waste of skin drug overdose guy is tying up an ambulance, police/fire truck, ER staff and doctors that I might need!!! 

 

Just need to make it to 4:20 and it all goes away.  Well, in a drawer out of sight anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you notice that the American flag emoji disappeared as an option in the forum?? It used to be there. Thankfully the gay flag is still there 😆.

 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by IZRL

[Dan.]

"Comments need to be approved by a moderator" (Mike). Welcome to democracy folks! Where peoples feelings are the government, and Law and Liberties are a thing of the past!

[john510]

2 hours ago, frankendat said:

Bullshit. And here, I will be the bad guy. If you do not speak, write, read English enough to fill out a ballot. If you did not enter the United States through a boarder and complete all pre entry checks that demonstrate you are not a threat to this country and I would add, bring something to the United States aside from desperation, because we have enough, than you shouldn't be able to vote. Isn't the latest push from the Democrats some stat that 90% of homeless have mental issues?  Another good reason  to deny voting. If that is what all the Democrat douchebags  are using to claim the destruction of America, then let's destroy it! I believe in charity and good will, but only in very very limited situations outside of the boarders of the United States. The latest stats from the right are 10 million crossed the boarder under the "open" policy, find the latest stat from the left and we can split the difference. Whatever, it is too damn many and I sure as hell don't want them voting.

That's 10 million that we know of, documented you might say. Which means it's got to be more than that because they haven't caught every single one of them. How many they call them "got aways" are there ?