destruction of america

[paradime]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Critical fucking thinking... sounds great but no guarantee of being correct. Works best with math where 1 plus 2 =3 anywhere in our universe and where the facts used are true and self evident to any thinker who can count his fingers. Critical thinking is closest to correct for the most superficial things that you can experience first hand but as soon as information is second hand truth begins to break down and is suspect in direct relation to how many hands it is passed through. You might reject some few obvious falsehoods but for the most part, true and false can't be separated and conclusions are faith based.

Critical thinking is the backbone of science, and although not experienced first hand, you'll have to trust me that your cell phone is not working on faith base technology. In the absence of critical thinking, truth does not exhist, not even when counting fingers. 

 

 

. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by paradime

[paradime]

8 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

My critical thinking screams that the evidence is/was there its just that no one was allowed to use it, the list of cases show that most were not allowed to proceed to the argument stage but were dismissed on various procedural reasons.

 

Belief in Trump's narrative might work in subjective public opinion, but it does not hold up in a court of laws. Those cases were all thrown out for lack of evidence to support said arguments, because there is none. You can choose to ignore the mountain of evidence that clearly shows Trump's twisted egocentric story is full of bovine scatology, or you can accept that 1+2 = 3. 

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

Critical thinking is the backbone of science, and although not experienced first hand, you'll have to trust me that your cell phone is not working on faith base technology. In the absence of critical thinking, truth does not exhist, not even when counting fingers. 

 

 

. 

 

Well that tells me nothing.  You can always trust yourself and what you experience (yes your senses can be fooled but for the most part seeing is believing) but all second hand information is always questionable. True and false cannot reliably be separated. 

[john510]

10 hours ago, paradime said:

Belief in Trump's narrative might work in subjective public opinion, but it does not hold up in a court of laws. Those cases were all thrown out for lack of evidence to support said arguments, because there is none. You can choose to ignore the mountain of evidence that clearly shows Trump's twisted egocentric story is full of bovine scatology, or you can accept that 1+2 = 3. 

You can also choose to ignore that voting can be flawed because of how it's done presently.What would happen if our government admitted there actually was a problem ? They deny for a reason.My opinion,if you have 100% faith that our elections are 100% legit you might be a fool.Too many strange circumstances occurred that had nothing to do with Trump's accusations.

[jagman]

My background is financial operations.  I also work as a poll worker and have seen the voting process up close and personal.  The voting process is as secure as any double count and well supervised financial operation in a bank.  If you believe otherwise I have a bridge you'll want to buy.

[paradime]

5 hours ago, john510 said:

You can also choose to ignore that voting can be flawed because of how it's done presently.What would happen if our government admitted there actually was a problem ? They deny for a reason.My opinion,if you have 100% faith that our elections are 100% legit you might be a fool.Too many strange circumstances occurred that had nothing to do with Trump's accusations.

"Can be flawed" is not what we're talking about. Too many people have 100% faith the election was stolen from then based on "strange circumstances" with 0% proof to support Trump's deep state election conspiracie. How can anyone have 100% faith when Cyber Ninjas' $6 mil hand count turned up 360 more votes for grandpa Joe? In your opinion, if you deny without reason, who's being made the fool here? 

[paradime]

15 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Well that tells me nothing.  You can always trust yourself and what you experience (yes your senses can be fooled but for the most part seeing is believing) but all second hand information is always questionable. True and false cannot reliably be separated. 

 

So you're saying my use of metaphor is too convoluted? To clarify, the term critical thinking comes from the Greek word kritikos meaning “able to judge or discern validity”. This way of thinking seeks proof, not truth. For instance, while neither true or false, by contradicting your subjective premise, you disprove its validity. If you're seeking proof, all second hand information must be questioned. However, with objective rigorous testing that yields consistent results, even a child can reliably separate true from false. If someone they trust lies to that child consistently, then subjectively, false becomes true. From a purely subjective perspective and no proof to support it, the Earth is flat, and no amount of proof will convince the faithfully subjective thinker otherwise. Trusting my own experience, this applies to Woke and MAGA thinking alike.

[john510]

4 hours ago, paradime said:

"Can be flawed" is not what we're talking about. Too many people have 100% faith the election was stolen from then based on "strange circumstances" with 0% proof to support Trump's deep state election conspiracie. How can anyone have 100% faith when Cyber Ninjas' $6 mil hand count turned up 360 more votes for grandpa Joe? In your opinion, if you deny without reason, who's being made the fool here? 

What are we talking about ? Is flawed a perfect system for voting ? We know things happened,it's a fact.We know machines went haywire.We know people were caught cheating the system.Those things made the news briefly,for maybe one night of the news and that was it.You just said a hand count turned up more votes for Biden so how is that not flawed ? And FWIW I'm not 100% convinced Trump lost because of cheating but I do have suspicions that games were played that certainly didn't work in his favor.I said "suspicions" so don't take that the wrong way.And remember to vote early and vote often.

[paradime]

When Trump is using the exact same language, and extermination rhetoric as Hitler, how could anyone not see the comparison here? Could dehumanizing his opponents be a core theme in the MAGA belief system? Who does this rhetoric of a dictator appeal to? How can any American defend this insane shit as the best hope for OUR country? I'm unhappy with the corporate interest state of the Union, but I have ZERO respect for someone who thinks this garbage has anything to do with patriotism, or respect for the people who died to protect our freedom. I've seen enough, and I want to see this guy behind bars. With any luck, his spell over the Republican party will be broken by then, and we can finally vote for a sane candidate.

 

Trump’s incendiary ‘vermin’ remarks prompt backlash

"Former President Trump prompted backlash for comparing his political enemies to “vermin” who needed to be exposed, with critics drawing comparisons to dictators from decades ago.

 

Trump, in a Veterans Day speech in New Hampshire, pledged to “root out … the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country,” the latest in a growing line of increasingly incendiary comments about his political opponents heading into the 2024 election."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4307719-trump-vermin-remark-draws-comparisons-dictators-criticism/

 

 

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

 

So you're saying my use of metaphor is too convoluted? To clarify, the term critical thinking comes from the Greek word kritikos meaning “able to judge or discern validity”. This way of thinking seeks proof, not truth. For instance, while neither true or false, by contradicting your subjective premise, you disprove its validity. If you're seeking proof, all second hand information must be questioned. However, with objective rigorous testing that yields consistent results, even a child can reliably separate true from false. If someone they trust lies to that child consistently, then subjectively, false becomes true. From a purely subjective perspective and no proof to support it, the Earth is flat, and no amount of proof will convince the faithfully subjective thinker otherwise. Trusting my own experience, this applies to Woke and MAGA thinking alike.

 

I don't follow at all. So what rigorous testing yields consistent results that a statement is either true or false???? Hindsight? months or years later it's obvious that something is true or not true?  Ten statements are made and nine are obviously correct so the tenth, not so obviously true, must be also?  What about a single statement?

 

You can be careful and throw out obvious falsehoods but what about the less obvious facts?

[angliagt]

51 minutes ago, john510 said:

What are we talking about ? Is flawed a perfect system for voting ? We know things happened,it's a fact.We know machines went haywire.We know people were caught cheating the system.Those things made the news briefly,for maybe one night of the news and that was it.You just said a hand count turned up more votes for Biden so how is that not flawed ? And FWIW I'm not 100% convinced Trump lost because of cheating but I do have suspicions that games were played that certainly didn't work in his favor.I said "suspicions" so don't take that the wrong way.And remember to vote early and vote often.

 

         Yeah - I voted four times in the last election.

[datzenmike]

22 minutes ago, paradime said:

When Trump is using the exact same language, and extermination rhetoric as Hitler, how could anyone not see the comparison here? Could dehumanizing his opponents be a core theme in the MAGA belief system? Who does this rhetoric of a dictator appeal to? How can any American defend this insane shit as the best hope for OUR country? I'm unhappy with the corporate interest state of the Union, but I have ZERO respect for someone who thinks this garbage has anything to do with patriotism, or respect for the people who died to protect our freedom. I've seen enough, and I want to see this guy behind bars. With any luck, his spell over the Republican party will be broken by then, and we can finally vote for a sane candidate.

 

Trump’s incendiary ‘vermin’ remarks prompt backlash

"Former President Trump prompted backlash for comparing his political enemies to “vermin” who needed to be exposed, with critics drawing comparisons to dictators from decades ago.

 

Trump, in a Veterans Day speech in New Hampshire, pledged to “root out … the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country,” the latest in a growing line of increasingly incendiary comments about his political opponents heading into the 2024 election."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4307719-trump-vermin-remark-draws-comparisons-dictators-criticism/

 

 

I see it!

 

 

On 11/10/2023 at 5:02 PM, datzenmike said:

MAGA sounds great but it's smacks of Nazism. Blind obedience and belief in an insane charismatic leader. Christ just look at that bloated Aryan poster boy and his rally rants! The comparisons are scary. 

 

 

 

[paradime]

30 minutes ago, john510 said:

What are we talking about ? Is flawed a perfect system for voting ? We know things happened,it's a fact.We know machines went haywire.We know people were caught cheating the system.Those things made the news briefly,for maybe one night of the news and that was it.You just said a hand count turned up more votes for Biden so how is that not flawed ? And FWIW I'm not 100% convinced Trump lost because of cheating but I do have suspicions that games were played that certainly didn't work in his favor.I said "suspicions" so don't take that the wrong way.And remember to vote early and vote often.

Are you saying it has to be perfect to be valid? With a large Mexican population, Arizona was a contested state, and we were told this count would prove the election was stolen, not to show it was flawed. With no proof, Trump's narrative never chanced, and Rupert lost $750 mil for backing his BS.  

[paradime]

16 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

I don't follow at all. So what rigorous testing yields consistent results that a statement is either true or false???? Hindsight? months or years later it's obvious that something is true or not true?  Ten statements are made and nine are obviously correct so the tenth, not so obviously true, must be also?  What about a single statement?

 

You can be careful and throw out obvious falsehoods but what about the less obvious facts?

When taken out of context from the point I was making about MAGA thinking and the formation of truth, you distort the meaning. For instance, Parent: "If you masturbate too much you'll go blind."  Me: "I call BS, I'm going to prove this statement is false." Shit maybe that wasn't the best analogy, but you get the idea. 

[thisismatt]

I'd bet the availability of absentee/mail-in ballots alone was enough to win Biden the election. Think about all the lazy losers who formerly couldn't be bothered, now given the ease of voting the party of free stuff via mail-in voting. Democrats hit the "get out the vote" hard backed with the ease of mail-in voting. 

[bananahamuck]

[ratpatrol66]

7 hours ago, angliagt said:

 

         Yeah - I voted four times in the last election.

Not sure if any of you remember me saying that I voted using my deceased moms ballot. Told several people this and they all freaked out, made it clear she was a democrat so I had to vote that way. Trust me people will believe stupid statements no matter who makes them. I'm coking up some good BS for the 2024 election, you just wait!

[john510]

12 hours ago, paradime said:

When Trump is using the exact same language, and extermination rhetoric as Hitler, how could anyone not see the comparison here? Could dehumanizing his opponents be a core theme in the MAGA belief system? Who does this rhetoric of a dictator appeal to? How can any American defend this insane shit as the best hope for OUR country? I'm unhappy with the corporate interest state of the Union, but I have ZERO respect for someone who thinks this garbage has anything to do with patriotism, or respect for the people who died to protect our freedom. I've seen enough, and I want to see this guy behind bars. With any luck, his spell over the Republican party will be broken by then, and we can finally vote for a sane candidate.

 

Trump’s incendiary ‘vermin’ remarks prompt backlash

"Former President Trump prompted backlash for comparing his political enemies to “vermin” who needed to be exposed, with critics drawing comparisons to dictators from decades ago.

 

Trump, in a Veterans Day speech in New Hampshire, pledged to “root out … the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country,” the latest in a growing line of increasingly incendiary comments about his political opponents heading into the 2024 election."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4307719-trump-vermin-remark-draws-comparisons-dictators-criticism/

 

 

Yea CNN reported he's already working on gas chambers to eradicate the illegals Biden let into the country.How dare any President try to undo an illegal invasion or weed out corruption in Government.Government IS full of vermin ! You constantly remind us of that.

[datzenmike]

13 hours ago, paradime said:

When taken out of context from the point I was making about MAGA thinking and the formation of truth, you distort the meaning. For instance, Parent: "If you masturbate too much you'll go blind."  Me: "I call BS, I'm going to prove this statement is false." Shit maybe that wasn't the best analogy, but you get the idea. 

 

Well still not getting the message. Seems like 'critical thinking' (sounds really impressive BTW) is very limited as to actually separating truth from falsehood. Seems like saying 'don't believe everything you hear' and 'take with a grain of salt' would work just as well. In the scheme of things there isn't much that works and this is why everything is fucked up.

[paradime]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Well still not getting the message. Seems like 'critical thinking' (sounds really impressive BTW) is very limited as to actually separating truth from falsehood. Seems like saying 'don't believe everything you hear' and 'take with a grain of salt' would work just as well. In the scheme of things there isn't much that works and this is why everything is fucked up.

 

Once again, searching for proof has nothing to do with separating truth from falsehood. I've explained my position 3 ways to Sunday, and you're still playing Who's On First as diversion with "Well that tells me nothing, I don't follow at all, Well still not getting the message". We both know you're not that that dense. Maybe you have no room for "critical fucking thinking", because it doesn't fit the subjective way you navigate the world? I'm not sure were your hostile prejudice for the term is coming from, but saying "sounds really impressive BTW" makes it seem like you believe searching for proof with critical thinking is an academic elitist concept. Yes it's imperfect, but should we ignore the evidence and trust Trump's twisted egocentric bovine scatology? Based on our gut feelings, should we believe in Trump's innocent because we didn't experience his alleged crimes first hand? Is believing without proof going to MAGA?

 

In the simplest terms, if we didn't have the capacity to use critical thinking, we'd still be living in caves. From all indications, it appears our "modern media" politics is hell bent on taking us back there. We need a fucking hero indeed, but if an authoritarian dictatorship is their solution, I need another fucking country. 

[paradime]

9 hours ago, john510 said:

Yea CNN reported he's already working on gas chambers to eradicate the illegals Biden let into the country.How dare any President try to undo an illegal invasion or weed out corruption in Government.Government IS full of vermin ! You constantly remind us of that.

Void of fact, but hyperbolic truth all the same..

[john510]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

Void of fact, but hyperbolic truth all the same..

Not fact.I was mistaken about CNN.It wasn't them it was Rachel Madcow pushing the paranoia about Trump.The rest is fact.

[datzenmike]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

 

We both know you're not that that dense.

 

 

I'm not that sure, but if you say so. Not playing Who's on First, this time.

 

Lets try again... would it be the paring away the dross, the crap, the bias, the BS the superfluous of anything to find the most basic kernel of something? wrong or right my head is hurting.     

[paradime]

6 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

I'm not that sure, but if you say so. Not playing Who's on First, this time.

 

Lets try again... would it be the paring away the dross, the crap, the bias, the BS the superfluous of anything to find the most basic kernel of something? wrong or right my head is hurting.     

No argument there. Take care of your head, it's sticky green bud time.

[datzenmike]

Geez it's almost 5:20. Forgot about the time change.