destruction of america

[john510]

4 hours ago, paradime said:

We received a notice from Kia about our Nero Hybrid. In reality, they F'ed up and left an easy way to hack the security system and drive their cars away without a key. Once car thieves learned this weakness it's been open season on these cars. Insurance companies are pushing for compensation and rightfully so IMO.

Here's a dumb idea regarding car theft.Keep criminals in jail or actually prosecute them ?  How can anybody blame the car manufacturer ? That's like blaming flies for the dog shit in your back yard.Can we sue the glass makers when somebody breaks a window and steals a wallet or purse ? The car should have had bullet proof glass.That lawsuit I believe has already been tossed by a judge.

[Dguy210]

17 minutes ago, john510 said:

Here's a dumb idea regarding car theft.Keep criminals in jail or actually prosecute them ?  How can anybody blame the car manufacturer ? That's like blaming flies for the dog shit in your back yard.Can we sue the glass makers when somebody breaks a window and steals a wallet or purse ? The car should have had bullet proof glass.That lawsuit I believe has already been tossed by a judge.

4 hours ago, paradime said:

We received a notice from Kia about our Nero Hybrid. In reality, they F'ed up and left an easy way to hack the security system and drive their cars away without a key. Once car thieves learned this weakness it's been open season on these cars. Insurance companies are pushing for compensation and rightfully so IMO.

 

Here is a novel idea: HOW ABOUT BLAMING THE FUCKING CRIMINALS!

 

 

[paradime]

Where is this hyperbole coming from? No one said the perps should not be punished. Grand Theft Auto is usually charged as a felony in California resulting in a sentence of 16 months to 3 years in prison under the recent California Sentencing Guidelines.

 

So you're saying car companies that make a faulty product resulting in a high number of thefts shouldn't be held responsible for their fuckup? In fact, Hyundai and Kia agreed to pay a $200 million legal settlement over these theft issues, So no, a judge didn't throw it out.

[datzenmike]

Don't buy them. It worked for Bud Light.

[difrangia]

Kias, Hyundais, & lower-level Nissans glut the roads here in the south-central US. Along with the low-rung Dodges & Chevys, I refer to them as 'Throw Aways'. They wouldn't be so annoying if the owners would keep them up a bit. Multiple wiskey/dont-give-a-shit dents on all the panels, cracked windshield, and a space-saver spare on one corner is required. I know, says a lot more bout the owners and state law enforcement, but still don't ease the annoyance. Dammit, I'm gettin' old !!

[paradime]

17 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Don't buy them. It worked for Bud Light.

Wait, did a transgender influencer promote Korean cars on Instagram? Shit, I had no idea I was driving a moral abomination of right woke sexual standards.  (note the use of sarcasm font.)

[difrangia]

'Gender Confusion Syndrome' (go ahead and take a shot at me) is just one of the newest faddiest cults to assault the guidestones of civil society.

 

Look at me; I'm cool, edgy, & liberated !!

 

Kinda sad I can't cease doing business transactions with Inbev over mulvaney. Lite beers don't take up space in our fridges & Blue Moon and Stella don't any more though they were rare visitors in the past. Yuengling gets the top shelf in the fridge since last Spring when they came to OKlahoma. I'm self-spoiled; I brew some of my own beer several times a year.

[paradime]

37 minutes ago, difrangia said:

'Gender Confusion Syndrome' (go ahead and take a shot at me) is just one of the newest faddiest cults to assault the guidestones of civil society.

 

Look at me; I'm cool, edgy, & liberated !!

 

Kinda sad I can't cease doing business transactions with Inbev over mulvaney. Lite beers don't take up space in our fridges & Blue Moon and Stella don't any more though they were rare visitors in the past. Yuengling gets the top shelf in the fridge since last Spring when they came to OKlahoma. I'm self-spoiled; I brew some of my own beer several times a year. 

 

Truly, Bud Lite comes from those Clydesdales. Too many great micro breweries to be drinking horse piss.

 

I hate woke left and woke right rhetoric equally, because it's 2 bat shit crazy sides of the same coin, and NONE of it make sense to me. I know who I am and it's all that matters. Throughout history, the concept of "morality" has always been subjective, and humans have been fighting over it since time began. I'm sure if God exists, he's saying pass the popcorn.  

[datzenmike]

4 hours ago, paradime said:

 

 I'm sure if God exists, he's saying pass the popcorn.  

 

One of the greatest lines in the book Hannibal.

 

 God is beyond measure in wanton malice, and matchless in his irony........... Hannibal Lecter

 

 

[frankendat]

5 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

One of the greatest lines in the book Hannibal.

 

 God is beyond measure in wanton malice, and matchless in his irony........... Hannibal Lecter

 

 

Speaking of a GD and religion in general there was a good quote on the last Foundation episode: "...(O)nce you start kneeling and praying, it's hard to get back to standing and thinking."

[john510]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:29 PM, paradime said:

Where is this hyperbole coming from? No one said the perps should not be punished. Grand Theft Auto is usually charged as a felony in California resulting in a sentence of 16 months to 3 years in prison under the recent California Sentencing Guidelines.

 

So you're saying car companies that make a faulty product resulting in a high number of thefts shouldn't be held responsible for their fuckup? In fact, Hyundai and Kia agreed to pay a $200 million legal settlement over these theft issues, So no, a judge didn't throw it out.

It's not about punishment it's about blame.To think a vehicle is "faulty" because somebody figured out how to steal it is frankly IMO fucking crazy and or stupid..How long have cars (any make or model) been getting stolen ? Were all those cars faulty also ? Shall we go back in time and sue all manufacturers ? It figures you would be in the "blame the car not the crook" camp.

[datzenmike]

Well generally you don't make something that is easier to hack or steal. Before locking columns there was one car maker that all you had to do was carry a spare ignition switch and key. Unplug and plug the spare in and let it dangle.

[john510]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Well generally you don't make something that is easier to hack or steal. Before locking columns there was one car maker that all you had to do was carry a spare ignition switch and key. Unplug and plug the spare in and let it dangle.

I don't think anybody intended to make anything easier to steal.And I'd bet there's more than one car maker that you could swap out an ignition switch on and drive it away.Ever tried to hot wire a 510 ? So easy a cave man could do it. Stealing is wrong and used to be illegal. I had a 510 stolen many years ago.I never thought to blame it on the Nissan Motor Company.I blamed it on the criminals that took it.I should lawyer up and pursue this.LOL.

[datzenmike]

If there is a way to exploit a security weakness a criminal will find it. Old Datsuns should all have kill switches.

 

No, I doubt Kia did this on purpose, I think they were simply lazy or didn't go to the trouble to check.

[john510]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

If there is a way to exploit a security weakness a criminal will find it. Old Datsuns should all have kill switches.

 

No, I doubt Kia did this on purpose, I think they were simply lazy or didn't go to the trouble to check.

My old Datsun does have anti theft things on it.A battery switch in the trunk with the battery and an electric fuel pump with a switch hidden so well it could take hours to find it.And the good old trusty club on the steering wheel.Also wired shut window latches on the rear windows.If it gets stolen I'll blame myself for not taking the wheels and tires off of it.

[paradime]

4 hours ago, john510 said:

It's not about punishment it's about blame.To think a vehicle is "faulty" because somebody figured out how to steal it is frankly IMO fucking crazy and or stupid..How long have cars (any make or model) been getting stolen ? Were all those cars faulty also ? Shall we go back in time and sue all manufacturers ? It figures you would be in the "blame the car not the crook" camp.

And it's no shock you twist my point into a pretzel to support your "legalizing crime" political rhetoric. Once again you're jumping to conclusions about shit you know nothing about. These cars were designed so that if both keys were lost, the driver side headlight plug can be used to override the security system. In my book, that's a stupid ass F up to think it could be kept a secret. WE didn't sue anyone, insurance companies did because ultimately they were the ones who were financially damaged. It's about corporate money so blame them.

[bottomwatcher]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

My old Datsun does have anti theft things on it.A battery switch in the trunk with the battery and an electric fuel pump with a switch hidden so well it could take hours to find it.And the good old trusty club on the steering wheel.Also wired shut window latches on the rear windows.If it gets stolen I'll blame myself for not taking the wheels and tires off of it.

Sucks to have to live like that. It's not quite that bad in Florida where i live but you still need a lock it or you might loose it mentality. Where I am in Maine in the hot months open windows and keys dangling in the ignition in the grocery store parking lot is common. When someone questioned why I was padlocking my trailer at the boat ramp parking lot I looked around and there wasn't another padlock in sight. Fuck it I haven't locked a trailer there in 15 years and it has always been there when I get back. It takes a mental toll when you are always concerned someone is going to take your shit you worked so hard for.

[john510]

36 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said:

Sucks to have to live like that. It's not quite that bad in Florida where i live but you still need a lock it or you might loose it mentality. Where I am in Maine in the hot months open windows and keys dangling in the ignition in the grocery store parking lot is common. When someone questioned why I was padlocking my trailer at the boat ramp parking lot I looked around and there wasn't another padlock in sight. Fuck it I haven't locked a trailer there in 15 years and it has always been there when I get back. It takes a mental toll when you are always concerned someone is going to take your shit you worked so hard for.

It's not that I have to live like that.I'm actually in a very safe neighborhood.I've left the keys to my Tacoma on the front seat with the windows down all night long hundreds of times.Yes dumb I know.I try harder not to.The 510 is in a carport with another car behind it.Like you said it's the mental toll of worrying about my car.It's mostly precautionary and for peace of mind.

[john510]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

And it's no shock you twist my point into a pretzel to support your "legalizing crime" political rhetoric. Once again you're jumping to conclusions about shit you know nothing about. These cars were designed so that if both keys were lost, the driver side headlight plug can be used to override the security system. In my book, that's a stupid ass F up to think it could be kept a secret. WE didn't sue anyone, insurance companies did because ultimately they were the ones who were financially damaged. It's about corporate money so blame them.

I didn't twist anything.And crime is legal,where have you been ? I don't recall mentioning politics.Did I ? 

[frankendat]

2 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

Sucks to have to live like that. It's not quite that bad in Florida where i live but you still need a lock it or you might loose it mentality. Where I am in Maine in the hot months open windows and keys dangling in the ignition in the grocery store parking lot is common. When someone questioned why I was padlocking my trailer at the boat ramp parking lot I looked around and there wasn't another padlock in sight. Fuck it I haven't locked a trailer there in 15 years and it has always been there when I get back. It takes a mental toll when you are always concerned someone is going to take your shit you worked so hard for.

 

I grew up in a house where everything was locked all the time and if I left something unattended, in the front yard (we didn't have a fenced front yard), it meant I didn't want it anymore. If thieves didn't take it, mom or dad would. If I left the front or back door of the house unlocked, especially if other family members were home. It meant I didn't care for whatever or whoever was left in the unlocked house and sanctions would follow.(Not valuing the house that your parents provide is an act of disrespect). What you value,  you take steps to protect. 

 

It sounds rigorous, but raised with these habits it is second nature, no mental toll. The problem that brings mental anguish is this type of security means nothing if criminals no longer respect the authority of the State and those willing to protect what is theirs are arrested. I know first hand of legal problems that follow a physical altercation to retrieve stolen goods. Considering the lack of options and the helplessness forced by my government takes mental toll. Some preach that those who prepare are "scared all the time" and chastise for locks, or laugh at those who stayed armed, but only in the last decade have I been scared and fear exacts a great mental toll.  Not scared of criminals, even newly emboldened, the basics of criminality remain relatively unchanged, scared of my "community", scared of the "police", scared of the "government". I put those in quotes, because it is the conglomerate that inspire fear. 

 

[frankendat]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:50 AM, paradime said:

We received a notice from Kia about our Nero Hybrid. In reality, they F'ed up and left an easy way to hack the security system and drive their cars away without a key. Once car thieves learned this weakness it's been open season on these cars. Insurance companies are pushing for compensation and rightfully so IMO.

 

On 9/2/2023 at 3:12 PM, john510 said:

Here's a dumb idea regarding car theft.Keep criminals in jail or actually prosecute them ?  How can anybody blame the car manufacturer ? That's like blaming flies for the dog shit in your back yard.Can we sue the glass makers when somebody breaks a window and steals a wallet or purse ? The car should have had bullet proof glass.That lawsuit I believe has already been tossed by a judge.

 

9 hours ago, john510 said:

It's not about punishment it's about blame.To think a vehicle is "faulty" because somebody figured out how to steal it is frankly IMO fucking crazy and or stupid..How long have cars (any make or model) been getting stolen ? Were all those cars faulty also ? Shall we go back in time and sue all manufacturers ? It figures you would be in the "blame the car not the crook" camp.

In true internet fashion, using only the information provided in this thread and without any additional research, I will now provide opinion.

I would bet that somewhere in the advertising of this car, “safety” and or “theft deterrent” or some similar suggesting adjectives were employed. If the verbiage was something extreme like “unstealable” or “extra super safe” it could be written off as puffery, but if the language implied or stated that this particular car was a bit harder to steal than other cars or older cars or just harder to steal than the previous model, then there’s a thread to pull. Once there is a legitimate thread to pull, more often than not, big companies settle. (Which is the goal most often sought by both sides)

My rationale for this is that whether a car is easy or hard to steal is not a quality inherent in automobiles. If you buy a used or new car and ease to steal or not steal is not specifically mentioned by either party, then you couldn’t get a refund (certainly not additional compensation) if that quality didn’t exist.

To prevail in the courts, in my unofficial, internet trained, neither ABA condoned nor sanctioned opinion, you need to demonstrate:

The defendant possessed a duty

The defendant failed that duty

The failure of that duty harmed the plaintiff

I do not see “make car hard to steal” a car manufactures duty. Unless there exists either State or Federal laws on minimum theft deterrent devices necessary on cars made for sale in the United States or through statements made by the car manufacture, a reasonable person would believe the car was theft deterrent, this issue would have been moot.

The discussion is focusing on a non-issue.

Now, I think my uniformed analysis is reasonable and thereby most assuredly incorrect—Flame on   

[a.d._510_n_ok]

Elon Musk. Literally Hitler. 

[datzenmike]

 

Fuck this place. Imma the fuck outta here.

[paradime]

6 hours ago, frankendat said:

 

 

In true internet fashion, using only the information provided in this thread and without any additional research, I will now provide opinion.

I would bet that somewhere in the advertising of this car, “safety” and or “theft deterrent” or some similar suggesting adjectives were employed. If the verbiage was something extreme like “unstealable” or “extra super safe” it could be written off as puffery, but if the language implied or stated that this particular car was a bit harder to steal than other cars or older cars or just harder to steal than the previous model, then there’s a thread to pull. Once there is a legitimate thread to pull, more often than not, big companies settle. (Which is the goal most often sought by both sides)

My rationale for this is that whether a car is easy or hard to steal is not a quality inherent in automobiles. If you buy a used or new car and ease to steal or not steal is not specifically mentioned by either party, then you couldn’t get a refund (certainly not additional compensation) if that quality didn’t exist.

To prevail in the courts, in my unofficial, internet trained, neither ABA condoned nor sanctioned opinion, you need to demonstrate:

The defendant possessed a duty

The defendant failed that duty

The failure of that duty harmed the plaintiff

I do not see “make car hard to steal” a car manufactures duty. Unless there exists either State or Federal laws on minimum theft deterrent devices necessary on cars made for sale in the United States or through statements made by the car manufacture, a reasonable person would believe the car was theft deterrent, this issue would have been moot.

The discussion is focusing on a non-issue.

Now, I think my uniformed analysis is reasonable and thereby most assuredly incorrect—Flame on   

 

What does the law say about ignorance? Had you read all I said in this thread, your opinion might have been better informed. The plaintiffs here were insurance companies who were financially damaged by these products, NOT a class action suit brought by owners who had their car stolen seeking (extra compensation). Kia and Hyundai paid $200mil to settle this case because they knew that reasonable people believe that a car manufacturer has a minimum responsibility to make a "Theft Deterrent System" that doesn't have a gaping F'n whole in it. I respect your view point, but I see this as a perfectly reasonable expectation. John saying that I'm in the "blame the car not the crook" camp shows me no respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]