Just another (LOOK AT ME!!!) 69 DIME build thread.

[Crashtd420]

Ya I know what you mean  I'm still trying to fully understand the whole timing curve thing..... 

This is the main screen to set the mechanical advance..... I think this was what I used to get it running, i have tweaked it since.....

It's pretty easy, pick your rpm and timing number and that's it.... adding the vacuum advance is the part I dont get..

It has a similar screen....

 

As far as interacting with the efi, I'm not sure, seems like they would separately do their thing.... at least with the sniper kit.....

I would definitely over do it and build it for boost even if you dont at the moment ... and reverse your needs from there back to spark... that way your not buying something that may or may not be compatible or needed.....

  I think with the 123 dizzy you could use the vacuum advance for boost, the gauge in the app shows +/- pressure.... 

Dont turbo lower the timing slightly under boost?

 

So think about things like that and what other controller like megasquirt and haltech need and do.... are they only fuel delivery or do they handle the spark too....  

If the system wants a crank angle sensor input then getting the 123 doesnt make sense because at that point you might as well go distributor less....

The programming would probably be similar..... 

 

[510revisited]

I skimmed the surface on researching haltechs and megasquirts, seems they would be the one stop shop. However, for a standalone id need to source all the sensors, a tb, and god knows what else. Im really set on being as "plug and play" as possible. With that being said, i can control so much more with a standalone though. But i guess that falls into the same category as coilovers. Chances are your gonna fidget with it for a small amount of time at first, but then its novelty wears off. Which is why the 123 and sniper setup seem good for me, minus the option of boost. And in all honesty, the boost idea is WAY down the road..sucks making adult decisions...

[Crashtd420]

10 hours ago, 510revisited said:

I skimmed the surface on researching haltechs and megasquirts, seems they would be the one stop shop. However, for a standalone id need to source all the sensors, a tb, and god knows what else. Im really set on being as "plug and play" as possible. With that being said, i can control so much more with a standalone though. But i guess that falls into the same category as coilovers. Chances are your gonna fidget with it for a small amount of time at first, but then its novelty wears off. Which is why the 123 and sniper setup seem good for me, minus the option of boost. And in all honesty, the boost idea is WAY down the road..sucks making adult decisions...

I hear you.... at the time when I was looking into efi it just seemed like I was about to jump down a rabbit hole of expenses..... I was already way over budget so I stuck with the carburetor..... I figured I'd rather have the truck running with a carb now and figure out efi later with a running motor.... 

 

So I get the desire for efi, but I was curious why your looking into a 123 ignition distributor? 

You still running points or is there something wrong with your distributor?

Just curious... 

 

[510revisited]

2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

I hear you.... at the time when I was looking into efi it just seemed like I was about to jump down a rabbit hole of expenses..... I was already way over budget so I stuck with the carburetor..... I figured I'd rather have the truck running with a carb now and figure out efi later with a running motor.... 

 

So I get the desire for efi, but I was curious why your looking into a 123 ignition distributor? 

You still running points or is there something wrong with your distributor?

Just curious... 

 

I feel the same way about the rabbit hole. And to be honest, im still trying to make this damn thing somewhat reliable with the carb thats on it now. As for the dizzy, im running a matchbox. It was installed by the po. But id like to upgrade it too. Its old ass tech. Sure its good, and a step up from points. I want it to be as modern as possible, and adjustable as possible. The tune-ability of the distributor is what got me. If i ever get a different head, cam, exhaust set up i should be able to tweak the curve. Unless im totally wrong about all of this! I love the l series motors and i believe they could really stand for a little bit of modern tech. 

 

Did you go from points to 123 or matchbox to 123...

 

[Crashtd420]

I love my L series too....

Too many swaps happening with already running vehicles, for me it seemed like keeping the L was being different especially since I have the L16....

And a long time ago i switched the points to pertronix, and now i have the 123 ignition....

 

As far as dealing with the carb, I installed an air/fuel gauge and a wideband o2..... recently just bought some jets and stuff and have been trying to tune my setup..... that might be an idea , gets you some real time info about what the carb is doing..

[Draker]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:30 AM, 510revisited said:

Thats the exact look im going for. Headlights, height, and roof rack. Ill trade you my first born for those marker lights, hint hint... couple questions. What brand head lights? what size wheel? what strut insert (mr2, zx, blah blah blah)? and again, one first born for those marker lights. 

Now heres ANOTHER problem for ya. I measured all the pertinent spots, in my mind, on my srut housings before i chopped them up. Height from where the cast body bolts to the steering knuckle to top of tube. Inside of tube from bottom up. Both tubes where dead on, maybe a 32nd different. I measured a bunch of times, from multiple places the height of my split clamp and height of my perch the spring actually  sits on. Once the car was done and driven for a day or two, the ride height AS PER THE FENDERS is different. You can see a slight gap on one side above the tire, and tight on the other side. Maybe an inch difference.. my fenders arent perfectly lined up with the doors so im taking that into account maybe. I will do some measuring from the ground to the frame later to confirm.

Another issue, the next two pics are the inside of the strut housings.

 

 

Dapper lighting headlights. LED high beams, HID low beams.

 

15x7 wheels, not sure on the offset. 0? Not sure on the inserts, I should have done a better documenting it in my build thread. I used this thread for reference: 

 

 

 

[510revisited]

5 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

I love my L series too....

Too many swaps happening with already running vehicles, for me it seemed like keeping the L was being different especially since I have the L16....

And a long time ago i switched the points to pertronix, and now i have the 123 ignition....

 

As far as dealing with the carb, I installed an air/fuel gauge and a wideband o2..... recently just bought some jets and stuff and have been trying to tune my setup..... that might be an idea , gets you some real time info about what the carb is doing..

I thought about going that same route. Using a wideband to dial the carb in. But it just seems to be redundant in my case. If i go fuel injection ill need a wideband. So either way im gonna have one. But correct me if I'm wrong, it appears that the readout for the holley efi has an a/f "guage" on the little hand held screen. So i wouldnt need to but an actual guage... fuck, i just need to go back to work so i can not feel guilty about blowing money...

 

5 hours ago, Draker said:

 

Dapper lighting headlights. LED high beams, HID low beams.

 

15x7 wheels, not sure on the offset. 0? Not sure on the inserts, I should have done a better documenting it in my build thread. I used this thread for reference: 

 

 

 

Ive been through that thread a hundred times. And some of the info in there is making me want to lean towards using an mr2 insert instead. The fact that the front end of the zx is heavier (im assuming) than the rear/front (cant remember) of the mr2 makes more sense to me. Ive been eyeballing those dapper lights. How are they to install, and any complaints? I guess anything is better than stock these days though... 

[Crashtd420]

You are right, the Holley efi definitely shows the air fuel, and it includes the wideband o2 in the kit.....

So ya unless you plan on staying with the carburetor I wouldn't both.....

 

What i also noticed was it showed ignition timing on that handheld screen.. I wonder how they are getting that information.... 

[510revisited]

Looks like this is for a different distributor, but im sure some of the concepts pertain. 

https://www.racingjunk.com/news/2017/03/22/advanced-features-of-the-holley-sniper-efi-unit/#Advanced-Features-of-the-Holley-Sniper-EFI-Unit-slide-1

[Crashtd420]

Ok so the timing control and display info comes from a Holley distributor..... you might be able to display feed back by using one of those msd boxes....

I was quick skimming the install guide, theres alot of info there.....

And this seems like its ment for a larger ford motor .... I would definitely inquire about how it would function on a small displacement motor.....

[510revisited]

Just sent this to holley. 

 

"Hi, i just had a quick question about your sbiper 2bbl efi. I have a 1969 datsun 510 with an l20b 4 cylinder installed. The car will be converted from 4 speed to 5 speed relatively soon. And will be basically a street car, with minimal track use. My question is, aside from physically mounting the sniper efi to the intake, would the efi work with this motor. Again, l20b (2000cc, about 110-ish hp stock). I dont know anything else about the motor specs, aside from its using a weber 32/36 down draft, datsun electronic ignition. And a relatively free flowing exhaust. Thank you in advance"

[Draker]

6 hours ago, 510revisited said:

Ive been through that thread a hundred times. And some of the info in there is making me want to lean towards using an mr2 insert instead. The fact that the front end of the zx is heavier (im assuming) than the rear/front (cant remember) of the mr2 makes more sense to me. Ive been eyeballing those dapper lights. How are they to install, and any complaints? I guess anything is better than stock these days though... 

 

They are a breeze to install. I've got them on the dime and on my 1200. I'd say about 95% plug and play. I had to shave the back of the housing mount points a bit to get the headlight rings to fit nicely. Otherwise, just pop them in and done. Wiring is plug and play. If you run halo's you'll need to find a power source for those. The light output is great, but my only complaint is they use a small projector in the housing which causes the beam to be a big narrow. To resolve this I just adjusted the lights to whatever the reverse of cross-eyed is. Double lazy eyed? 

 

Cut off is nice, relay harness allows for highs and lows to be on with the high beams. Support is good. They are on the expensive side though.. wait for a sale perhaps.

[510revisited]

So i got this today. Looks like i may be getting f.i. before the end of the year.

 

And i am still leaning towards the 123 dizzy. If anything its replacing a 100 percent 1970s-80s never inspected by me piece of history.

On a side note, i installed a cheap mr gasket fuel pressure guage inline between the mechanical fuel pump and carb. As the car is running, is it supposed to be steady at a certain pressure? Mine fluctuates quite rapidly between 2-4 psi. I took a video but cant figure out how to upload it. 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by 510revisited

[Crashtd420]

Well that's very good news about the efi.... now your really making me wanna look at those efi side draft dcoe look alikes from jenvey..... 

 

Next hurdle will be the adapter to mount it... but this all looks very promising....

 

So when the psi fluctuates is that from idle to a little throtttle or just at idle?

 

[510revisited]

3 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

Well that's very good news about the efi.... now your really making me wanna look at those efi side draft dcoe look alikes from jenvey..... 

 

Next hurdle will be the adapter to mount it... but this all looks very promising....

 

So when the psi fluctuates is that from idle to a little throtttle or just at idle?

 

Those jenveys look GOOD. Ive been looking at those for a while. Sucks that they only offer them in kit form for the z guys. I have thought about just running one. But man they would be cool. 

The fuel guage fluctuates at idle, and during revving. To be honest, the pump was a used pump that came with a box of parts.. so god knows it could be that alone. 

[Crashtd420]

6 minutes ago, 510revisited said:

Those jenveys look GOOD. Ive been looking at those for a while. Sucks that they only offer them in kit form for the z guys. I have thought about just running one. But man they would be cool. 

The fuel guage fluctuates at idle, and during revving. To be honest, the pump was a used pump that came with a box of parts.. so god knows it could be that alone. 

I wonder if the surge is just the way the pump is.... I converted to a low psi Carter electric pump with a Holley regulator... works real well... but if going efi you'll need high pressure so .... 

[510revisited]

23 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

I wonder if the surge is just the way the pump is.... I converted to a low psi Carter electric pump with a Holley regulator... works real well... but if going efi you'll need high pressure so .... 

I dont know honestly. But since ill be doing the conversion i wont worry too much. Now i just need to take the tank out, dip it, and paint it. Clear all the lines. find a better fuel sending unit. Figure out a return line, which already seems to be on the car.. ohh the joys. 

[datzenmike]

55 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

I wonder if the surge is just the way the pump is.... I converted to a low psi Carter electric pump with a Holley regulator... works real well... but if going efi you'll need high pressure so .... 

 

Probably the regulator. I haven't heard of Holly being great just cheap. 

[Crashtd420]

42 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Probably the regulator. I haven't heard of Holly being great just cheap. 

He doesnt have a regulator.... he is running the mechanical pump....

 

I have the Holley regulator and have zero issues with it....

[510revisited]

So i found this guys YouTube channel a few months back and watched some of his stuff. Though im still inclined to steer towards holley, im curious if the ez efi he installed would retrofit onto a dime. I do believe the ez efi system website says its setup for an 8 cylinder, and modified to work on the 6. Why not 4? He also does a review on the 123. Crash, if you watch the vid, let me know if you had the same issues he had installing the dizzy... and in no way am i affiliated with this guy. I just want the info to be out there so guys like me dont have to ask a million questions... oh and the video just dropped today..

 

[Crashtd420]

Not a bad video.....

I have questions about his advance curves though, but I dont know what hes using for a vacuum signal,  so he might be ok...

Again some of that is confusing to me, there has been talk on other posts about timing, the vacuum, and about part throttle that should there be more added and so on... I'm hoping when I finally make it to a dyno the tuner will have a better understanding and maybe be able to give my some insight...

and yes the dizzy was out 180 in the video like mine..... I moved my oil pump drive shaft 180 but either way would work.... all that matters is starting at cylinder 1 and following the firing order....

 

As far as the ez efi that was a retro fit kit specific for the z.... it's an upgrade to the stock fuel injection system..... 

The full systems are a 4 barrel down draft which are probably too much for a 2.0.  4 cylinder.....

 

[Crashtd420]

I also found this about the efi fuel system setup.... not sure how far out the efi idea is but if you wanted you could upgrade to a low pressure pump and regulator to stabilize your current fuel pressure , then use it without the regulator to feed a collector pot for the efi.....

 

 

 

[510revisited]

I watched a whole slew of YouTube videos last nite on the sniper efi. Im totally sold. And from the looks of things, either A: if something was wrong it was operator error or B: holley fixed it relatively quickly. Im probably either gonna go with the in-tank setup, or just mount the pump on the outside. Both have their pros and cons. I like the idea of a collector pot. But in the diagram jenvey shows two pumps, and i think thats a bit much. Right now the car is setup already with what APPEARS to be a return line. Ill just utilize that. On a side note, it appears that the Holley system can be boosted. There's a guy who turbo'ed his 6 banger 67 camaro. He even shows how to play with the fuel map. Beyond me, but that solidifies my mind. 

[Crashtd420]

I think that sniper efi is definitely the way to go..... nice complete setup, just add fuel and make an adapter plate....

I wish I was closer I would be all over helping to make that and getting it working...

 

And ya the fuel diagrams were just something I found looking up stuff.....

 

Of course now you have me emailing Jenvey..... I was curious If i could use just a single efi side draft.... and they confirmed I could...... 

You can get a throttle body for cheap  but the one that looks like the weber is like 3 times as much.... and they need an engine management system.... $$$$$$.... 

[510revisited]

I wouldnt be opposed to having someone make the actual adapter. I would prefer it to be a machined flat smooth surface.. i guess thats obvious now that i type it out. But you get the point. I toyed with the idea of running dual snipers. But how would you get them to sync. I know it would be easier to drop a 4bbl on it, but something about twin carbs/throttle bodies is cool. Just pull the trigger and pick up a sniper (see what i did there). Just thinknof the cold starts. You could drive that thing in the winters!!

 

Now i wanna switch things up a bit. Like i said before, i have a moratorium on the car, but the coilovers have been bugging the shit out of me. When i installed them, the springs were loose until i bolted them in. From everyting ive seen, the spring should be tight against the cap right? I shouldn't be able to move the spring around correct? It should have some kind of load on it??