Just another (LOOK AT ME!!!) 69 DIME build thread.

[510revisited]

7 hours ago, the510keeper said:

looks like a great project. 

 

We will be having a caravan to Canby, it'll be fun to have a line of dimes rolling up I-5

 

 

Its been an adventure thats for sure. Thanks.

 

Got all this in today. 

Tomorrow its time to bust out the grinder and welding machine!!! 😍

[68Datsun510]

18 hours ago, the510keeper said:

looks like a great project. 

 

We will be having a caravan to Canby, it'll be fun to have a line of dimes rolling up I-5

 

 

 

@510revisited, thats an awesome 69 project! I have one myself!

 

@the510keeper i need time and location info for the caravan!

[510revisited]

5 hours ago, 68Datsun510 said:

 

@510revisited, thats an awesome 69 project! I have one myself!

 

@the510keeper i need time and location info for the caravan!

At the moment it fucking blows donkey balls. So as per the ground control drawings i set the height of the perch (i went with the clamp) at whatever the measurement was. I triple, quadruple checked both sides. Slapped those bitches in, set the ride height and took off. First impressions are shes a little floaty (new steering components, no alignment). Now mind you i haven't touched the rear. What i dont get is it sounds like its bottoming out on the driver side. And physically it looks lower on the left. Im out and about, but foresee a teardown in my future. In hindsight i dont think shimming was the best idea. I think ill go back and do the chop and weld the sucker back together..

[68Datsun510]

Post pics of the struts, we can go from there! Ive used GC parts forever...their warehouse is 3 miles from my house. We can try and solve it! What spring rate?

[510revisited]

Ive Measured both sides and all the numbers add up. As far as i know i have everything installed properly. 280zx top hat, bearing, washer from gc, gc top hat, an then the rest. Heres what i think happened.

 One: i didn't install the bump stop on the driver side, therefore the car has room to sag on the driver side.

Two: by shimming the insert up, i effectively shortened the stroke on the strut. Causing it to actually ride the bump stops, well one bump stop. Even the instructions on gc's product shows that the body has been cut. Tomorrow my buddy is gonna swing over and im gonna say fuck it, undo it all, and weld the bitch... and if that doesnt work im pushing the fucker off a cliff.! Here some pics. Adjustable adjustable coilovers!!! I using the split collar for a reason

Edited March 7, 2019 by 510revisited

[510revisited]

I managed to talk to ground control, and they confirmed my suspicions. I need to shorten the strut tube. However, i pulled the driver side out, installed the bumb stop and now shes riding on two bump stops. Un-fucking-comfortable

[510revisited]

I did the math, and it seems to be an 850 ish lb spring. 3.5 outer dia, .5 inch diameter wire, 6.375 heigh/length, and i THINK its 4 usable coils or whatever the hell the term is. Oics

[datzenmike]

I get 813lb/in. Where the hell are you going to run 813 springs????????? On the rears??? Race prepared 510s rarely run over 300 on a coil over on the rear.

[510revisited]

29 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I get 813lb/in. Where the hell are you going to run 813 springs????????? On the rears??? Race prepared 510s rarely run over 300 on a coil over on the rear.

They came with the coilover sleeves. I was crossing my fingers they would be more around 200 lbs. I plan to build my own rear coilovers for the fuck of it. Im looking at ordering some 10 inch 200lb eibachs. Wouldnt a 800 lb spring be ok in the stock location.. or pretty close, disregarding its length. You know, the whole 200x3.8 thing?

Edited March 9, 2019 by 510revisited

[datzenmike]

Yup there is a 3.8 cantilever ratio on the lower control arms. An 813 would 'feel' like 214 lb/in. 

 

To get 813 I use the center to center of the coil diameter or just take the 3.5" diameter and subtract one 0.5" wire width.

[510revisited]

Is my count of the coils correct? I may throw them in the rear and use some sort of shim. How tall is a stock rear 510 spring? 

[datzenmike]

It's got to be very close to 4, yes. More than 4 makes it softer. Larger diameter makes it softer. Smaller wire thickness makes it softer.

[510revisited]

3 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

It's got to be very close to 4, yes. More than 4 makes it softer. Larger diameter makes it softer. Smaller wire thickness makes it softer.

One of your post said to add a half coil, so i calculated at 4.5. Again, do you know the stock length of oem spring?

[510revisited]

Where to begin.....? Yesterday started off with a kinda weak cars and coffee, due to all the damn rain. But saw a couple cool ones. A 68 'stang with a holley terminator efi, a stock 87 (i think) twin cam corolla, and me. A few others, but not worth mentioning. After i got back i went ahead and disassembled the pass. axle and shock, and pulled the rear spring. Measured it, and it turns out its about a 425 ish lb spring. And 4 inches taller than the ebay special. Went ahead and mounted my kyb corolla shocks and put it all back together. It feels nice in the back, not to sluggish, and not to stiff. Mind you i still need to do ALL the rear bushes. If im not wrong, the rear springs are about 110 ish pound springs, considering all the leverage action. I may bump to 150-175 for the rear, and maybe drop the front to 175. I want some track-ability, but not at the cost of compressing another disc. Daily driver, with some ability to put down a decent time. All in due time. 

 

[68Datsun510]

On 3/7/2019 at 1:32 PM, 510revisited said:

Ive Measured both sides and all the numbers add up. As far as i know i have everything installed properly. 280zx top hat, bearing, washer from gc, gc top hat, an then the rest. Heres what i think happened.

 One: i didn't install the bump stop on the driver side, therefore the car has room to sag on the driver side.

Two: by shimming the insert up, i effectively shortened the stroke on the strut. Causing it to actually ride the bump stops, well one bump stop. Even the instructions on gc's product shows that the body has been cut. Tomorrow my buddy is gonna swing over and im gonna say fuck it, undo it all, and weld the bitch... and if that doesnt work im pushing the fucker off a cliff.! Here some pics. Adjustable adjustable coilovers!!! I using the split collar for a reason

 

 

Depending on your desired ride height, sometimes the tube really does need to be shortened ad you mentioned. For a "slammed" 510 you'll pogo stick all day with stock struts, you also have that spring REALLY low on that perch... What I did with GC coilovers was trial and error, continually adjusting the spring collar upward till I got where I wanted. Hope you get the rest of the issues solved!

[510revisited]

3 hours ago, 68Datsun510 said:

 

 

Depending on your desired ride height, sometimes the tube really does need to be shortened ad you mentioned. For a "slammed" 510 you'll pogo stick all day with stock struts, you also have that spring REALLY low on that perch... What I did with GC coilovers was trial and error, continually adjusting the spring collar upward till I got where I wanted. Hope you get the rest of the issues solved!

 See, thats what i dont get. What is the difference between a "shortened" 510 strut housing with a 280zx insert, and a 280zx strut housing with a 280zx insert. I understand having to shorten the tube per se, but as i see it, the only difference from the two is the track width, and brakes right? Ill say this, it does pogo, quite a bit. The front end seems to be a bit stiff. When i switch to the zx housings, ill probably go for 150 ish pound springs. Mind you, i have not done squat to the rear except install new shocks, so i suspect the balance of the car is off a bit till i get the 200lb springs in back.

By the way, what do you mean my springs are way low on the perch? According to the drawings supplied by gc, thats where the collar is supposed to be. 9 7/16 to the top of the perch..I want low, but not laying frame low. I want no wheel gap, and that's all.  

[Draker]

The bigger brakes on the 280zx strut are nice and you can get pretty low without shortening them. Here is a pic of mine. This is about as low as you can go without bottoming out, at this height I don't bottom out the struts even on bumps in the road. Springs if I remember right are about 150-170 up front. I don't recall exactly. If you can shorten them, it's probably not a bad idea at all. It would give you a bit more flexibility for the ride height. Also if you are running a 14" wheel you might want to go a bit lower.

 

[510revisited]

3 hours ago, Draker said:

The bigger brakes on the 280zx strut are nice and you can get pretty low without shortening them. Here is a pic of mine. This is about as low as you can go without bottoming out, at this height I don't bottom out the struts even on bumps in the road. Springs if I remember right are about 150-170 up front. I don't recall exactly. If you can shorten them, it's probably not a bad idea at all. It would give you a bit more flexibility for the ride height. Also if you are running a 14" wheel you might want to go a bit lower.

 

Thats the exact look im going for. Headlights, height, and roof rack. Ill trade you my first born for those marker lights, hint hint... couple questions. What brand head lights? what size wheel? what strut insert (mr2, zx, blah blah blah)? and again, one first born for those marker lights. 

Now heres ANOTHER problem for ya. I measured all the pertinent spots, in my mind, on my srut housings before i chopped them up. Height from where the cast body bolts to the steering knuckle to top of tube. Inside of tube from bottom up. Both tubes where dead on, maybe a 32nd different. I measured a bunch of times, from multiple places the height of my split clamp and height of my perch the spring actually  sits on. Once the car was done and driven for a day or two, the ride height AS PER THE FENDERS is different. You can see a slight gap on one side above the tire, and tight on the other side. Maybe an inch difference.. my fenders arent perfectly lined up with the doors so im taking that into account maybe. I will do some measuring from the ground to the frame later to confirm.

Another issue, the next two pics are the inside of the strut housings.

See the difference? The stepped one does not allow the strut insert to set into the step. The diameter of the base of the insert is bigger. But this shows, maybe (unless nissan did this intentionally) they are two different strut housings, which may cause the wheel gap difference. Just a thought.

Last pic is of my first welds. Not to bad on penetration. My tacks didnt, but its not tye end of the world. They'll hold. Second attempt it got ugly. I didnt bother with pics. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by 510revisited

[Tedman]

Looks like maybe you might not have a matched pair of 510 strut tubes. If the difference in how deep the inserts sit in the tubes is <1/4" I wouldn't worry about it, or if you want, just shim up the shorter side with washers.  These are temporary struts until you swap in the 280ZX struts, right?  The key thing is that each insert is clamped tightly in place in the tube when the gland nuts are installed.  The difference in overall length won't affect ride height because you'll adjust the spring perches to get it level and at the desired ride height. Just consider this as practice getting the inserts to fit right for when it comes time to shorten your ZX struts.  

 

Except for the weird thing going on in the bottom of your 510 strut tubes, after you cut and weld them to fit the 280ZX inserts they should end up pretty close to the same length as your 280ZX strut tubes, but don't sweat it if they aren't exactly the same length. That's just the length they need to be to fit the inserts in those particular strut tubes.  Again, you'll compensate by threading the spring perches up or down 

 

Now, we need to make sure you stay off those bump stops! You can't make any rational decisions about ride quality and spring rate changes until you're riding on the springs, not the bumpstops!   In your pics from before you cut the stock strut tubes, your placement of the clamps and sleeves looked fine to me, but as was pointed out, it looked like your spring perches were threaded down too far. It looked like there was only maybe 2-3" inches between the top of the strut tube and the underside of the top hat. As you found out, that's not nearly enough!  Each front spring carries roughly 600 lbs, so when you set the car back down, a 200 lb/in spring will compress 3" right off the bat and now your top hat is riding on the gland nut!   Inserting the bumpstop got rid of metal on metal, but you we're still riding on the bumpstops.  Not good. Hopefully you didn't damage your inserts. What can happen is that the valving in the bottom gets pounded when it bottoms.  

 

The next logical step would have been to raise the spring perches 2-3". Then if you run out of range at the top of the threaded collars, you could raise them up by raising your clamps on the strut tubes.   Off the top of my head, you need to shoot for at least 3-4" of bump travel. More is better. A good trick is to tie a zip tie fairly tightly around the insert rod and slide it down against the gland nut before you put the car back on the ground. Settle the suspension, then lift the car and see where the zip tie is. What's above the zip tie but below the bump rubber (slide the bump rubber up against the top hat) is how much bump travel you have available. Then you can go for a drive and see where the zip tie ends up to see how much bump travel you actually used.  If the zip tie ends up higher than the bumpstop, raise the spring perch some more.  If the ride height gets to be too high for your tastes, well then it's time to consider shortening the strut tubes to fit shorter inserts, and/or possibly install stiffer springs, or maybe live with occasionally getting into the bump stops, in which case you want to use good ones like the conical urethane or Foamex type that ease the transition in effective spring rate, not just cut down stock rubbers which will have an abrupt transition.

 

You should be able to achieve nice ride and handling with 200 lb/in front and 800 lb.in rear springs in stock location (200 lbs  if rear coil overs).  You could try those 800 lb springs in the rear (if they are the right diameter and are long enough), but you need to cut off the flat at one end so they seat properly in the semi-trailing arm spring cups like stock ones.  You can get 1/4 or  1/2" urethane rear spring insulators to replace the stock rubber ones. I think Top End Performance has them, along with the Foamex bump rubbers.  If the springs are too short, you'll want the 1/2" ones.  If you're going to be sticking with stock-ish rear springs temporarily, 150 lb fronts will be more compatible if you don't mind buying another set, but if you already have the 200 lbs springs, I'd just set it up with them and start working on your real coil -overs.  

 

Also, your odd change in ride height L to R in front after a drive might be due to your rear springs not being quite settled in the cups after you re-installed them. If one was not settled and then settled after a drive, it will affect the ride height in front on the opposite side (diagonally). So if the LR dropped into place, the RF will lift, or vice versa. Just a thought.

 

Long winded post, I know, but hopefully some useful advice in there somewhere. Good luck! 

[510revisited]

  Hey ted, thanks for all the info. Too bad you weren't a little closer to the bay.. then you could come up and give me a hand! So as of now, i gotta put the car on a small hiatus. ive been off work myself for a month and a half, so its time to stop spending money. I plan to get back to the grind here in the next week. This doesnt mean i am giving up, or stopping. Just taking a break. As it stands though, i figured out the "new" struts were blown (my own doing, dont ask), so i replaced them with NEW kyb zx inserts. Same everything. It doesnt ride on bump stops anymore but it still kinda bounces around like a caddy. It seems i did something wrong, or maybe cause i haven'tdone the rears. When i pull the whole setup out, the spring is loose as a goose, and like yall pointed out, i dont have a lot of travel. Its all a bit baffling. I will figure it out.

  Next: Yesterday, i started her up to move her out of the garage. Everything was fine. Went to start it later on, and come to find out, my half assed wired straight to the battery tach killed my battery. And on top of it all, i spotted one hell of a fuel leak from what appeared to be the base of the carb. My buddy pointed out i was missing one of 4 nuts that hold the carb to the intake. So today i went and bought new nuts and tightened the thing down. Started it up, but cant keep it running without keeping my foot on the pedal, even with the choke on.

  Now, with that all being said, i am very interested in efi and electronic ignition. Im tired of all the carb hassles, and bs old school tech. Im even eyeing the 123ignition distributor. As for efi, i have been seeing three possible options. 

-Retroject 38/38

-Ik engineering 38 made by jenvey

-Holley sniper efi

  Ive googled every combo of efi and datsun i can think of, but it seems no one has gone this route. At least with these three possibilities. Im curios if anyone here has any experience... it seems to me that holley is the best bang for the buck. They've been around for ever, and ALMOST everything needed comes in the kit. Here are the links for the efi stuff. Thanks in advance for EVERYONES help.

http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=15299

 

https://www.ikengineering.co.uk/product-page/38mm-dgav-style-throttle-body

 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_2300_2bbl/parts/550-849

 

[Crashtd420]

The Holley efi is definitely the nicest and most complete setup but it looks like you'll need to make a custom mount for it.... not to big a deal....

 

The other 2 seem bolt on to a weber intake but all you get is the throttle body from what I can see ....

So more parts are probably needed..... 

I do like that there are more choices and Availability now.... i swear  3-5 years ago most of this wasnt available or it was crazy expensive..... they even have efi dcoe side draft look alikes..... and other throttle bodies for the side draft setups.... 

Look here too...

 https://store.jenvey.co.uk

 

As far as the 123 ignition it's a very well manufactured unit......

I have the bluetooth model on my 521.....

My honest opinion is this, it all depends on your motor.... for most it is over kill... the datsun match box dizzy even the pertronix upgrade is very similar....

The benefit is the that it looks like a  stock distributor, the tuning and the ability to program it without a vacuum signal.

I bought it because I'm running a single side draft and 10.7:1 compression on my motor and this gave me a fully mechanical and tunable distributor.... 

The only negative was the bluetooth, to me it seems like it doesnt like to connect when it's really cold... that part sucked because It has a security lock out and I use it because the 521 has no steering lock and honestly it would take about 30 seconds to hot wire the truck and steal it....  so if you go this route I recommend the usb connected one, unless the cold wont be a factor.... at the point mine doesnt like to connect I'm not driving it anyhow so the truck is safe in the garage..... 

Also if you do buy it order 1 or 2 extra rotors.... they are special and cost 25... but if you need just 1 they charge almost 20 to ship it..... 

I tried to find the rotors local and they are all garbage, and I have a bmw distributor cap part number for it too.... better quality then the parts store stuff.....

I had a slight miss fire I think was related to the cap and probably the rotor.. I would swap caps and it would temporarily go away..... 

Now I have a new rotor and the bmw cap so I'm hoping it's gone this year...

 

Now with that said, what about going distributor less, with a crank trigger and coil packs? 

I know the wheels and triggers are not too expensive but I have no idea what it takes to make it all work..... or even how the efi would interact with it....

This why I stuck with carb and dizzy, for now.... 

 

 

[Crashtd420]

Ok now I'm sold on that Holley sniper efi, had that been available I might have gone that route too... did you see the mounting template...?

I would print that and compare it to the Weber.... actually you should be available to verify the hole placement very easily with a tape measure....

 

[510revisited]

Ya, i honestly think that the mounting of the throttle body will be the hardest part. I got a buddy at work who can weld paper to water. If i go that route, ill just have a machine shop build me a little plate, then my buddy can weld it on. Crash, can you tell me the pros and cons of that distributor. How it works? How was it to setup? All that stuff. I did find a video on YouTube of a guy putting one into a z. To be honest i went through your build but could only make it to page 11.

[Crashtd420]

Thanks for checking my build out, atleast it looks like you got to the interesting stuff....

 

And I don't think the adapter will be too bad, just need to see where the bores need to be and where the bolts need to be but seems very possible......

 

As far as the distributor....

Pros....

They are extremely well build, the is no slop in the unit at all.... I believe they machine all the internals and the body....

 

Um not sure what else.... other than the obvious advantages of converting to an electronics distributor....  and it's a bit better because its programmable....

 

Cons.....

It's still a distributor with a cap and rotor... but that's the nature of a distributor.... caps and rotors wear out..

 

I had a problem, only in the extreme cold, with the bluetooth...  

 

In my opinion I think the drive keyway could be a little tighter but I believe it's the same width as datsun distributors, so really it's right to spec... I think I only measured. 010 or .020 clearance so it's tight but not that tight... it's not an issue.... oh it was 180 degrees off you know this pic...

Not a big deal just dropped the oil spindle and aligned to the distributor..

 

As far as programming that was easy, setup was also easy..... takes a second to match the display to the timing light but once you get it you can adjust timing purely from the app..... 

 

What I found difficult was understanding what information to put into the parameters...

I was lucky that I dont have to figure out the vacuum advance portion because I have a side draft carburetor.... I used it as a mechanical advance setup only so I deleted all the vacuum setting....

 

Yes it comes with some baseline info programmed into it, probably enough to get it to run but it needs to be altered....

 

Once you get it set it just does its job...

 

The bluetooth is nice while driving, it has a full display plus GPS speedometer, and you can also adjust the timing on the fly to see if it help or just incase its pinging you can lower it..... 

 

For me being high compression and running a side draft this seemed like my best option.... tunable incase of pinging and full (digital) mechanical... and it was bolt on.... it would honestly take about 30 minutes to swap it on ..... 

 

I'm not sure really what else to say about it.... probably better to ask me a little more direct questions so I dont just ramble.... but I think that's too late...

[510revisited]

I think your ramblings sold me. As far as the cold goes, this car will never see below freezing, for the most part. Thank you California coast weather... I wonder how it would interact with the fuel injection, or if it doesnt interact at all. I guess now i just need to teach myself what all the vacuum advance, mechanical advance, advance curve, blah blah blah is. Im pretty good with cars, but ive never had to fuck with advance. I get what advance does, KINDA.

  Im pretty set on the sniper kit. I plan to email them in a few months (once my vacation check drops in may) to ask them about fitting it to a l20b. Looks like i get to be a guinea pig maybe. Only thing is, i dont know if it will handle boost, as i am toying with that idea. I did see the ikengineering tb was oringed for boost, and it is made by jenvey. Maybe that and a megasquirt or haltech... either way. It looks promising, and its nice to see these products on the market.