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510revisited

Just another (LOOK AT ME!!!) 69 DIME build thread.

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Well, my order for the dash LEDs came in. Ran out to the garage like a fat kid in a candy store and hooked em up. What a hell of a difference! Id take a pic but im sure it wouldn't do it justice!!

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Just curious if anyone can help me identify what year and model tranny this is. It should be a direct swap as the 4 speed in the car is the same length. Im just hesitant cause i don't have a shifter yet. Well, at least til "datsun 5 1 oh" hooks a brother up. kVRogTU.jpg 7HmoVQM.jpg Iwh8tSD.jpg 8qR9elw.jpg also which shifyer does it take.. this one? lHIW8RW.jpg or this one? 4RtIXHF.jpg

Edited by 510revisited

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That looks exactly what I am assembling to go in my 521 behind my L16.... 

From what I have found that is the stumpy 71b from the 83-85 720....

Does it have the correct bellhousing on it? I also just learned the rear mount needs to be lowered by approximately 3/4"... 

And I think both shifters would work it would just be the bend that would matter and where it put the shifter...

 

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If you have the 63 series 4spd It will bolt in by length but not correctly with the bellhousing it has on it.....

If you look at my build thread I just started doing this exact thing.....

This is a pic of an L series bellhousing....

Look how close the mount hole and starter opening are to the clutch slave location,  now look at yours....

Screenshot-20181221-003621-Gallery.jpg

I've shown everything with some help about doing the change.. I'm a day away from reassembling mine.....

Edited by Crashtd420

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Oh one good thing, is your speedometer accurate?

If it is you can pull that speedo pinion out of your 4spd and use in the stumpy 5spd... I'm actually using the one from my 5spd in my 4spd right now...

And you'll also need the output flange, I think you can steal that from your 4spd also but if the one you have is bolted on to the transmission you may need to cap the center once you remove it... I think datsunmike said to use a freeze plug...

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Thanks for all the help. Heres some more pics. When i pulled the 4 spd i set it next to the 5. Everything "looked" like it would go. To be honest i dont know what model the 4 speed is either. Originally my speedo did work, but the cable from speedo to tranny broke. However my phone serves as a decent speedo/odo. No biggie for now. Ill probably just do it the hardway here pretty soon and throw it in. Its not super easy only due to the fact that some idiot ran the exhaust directly over the driver side trans mount bolts. They are a pain to remove/install.

 

 

4 speed left, 5 speed rightOkmILGv.jpg YuJ3qmH.jpg6iVhkAC.jpg 

Edited by 510revisited

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Look at that bellhousing again before you go to far an pull the transmission from your car.....

What's the 4spd on the floor?

Same as what's in the car?

Take a pic of the transmissions looking from behind.... make sure the shifter is level and note the location of the bolt circle on the bellhousing....

 

If you bolt that 5spd in as is you'll be in crooked, I know because i it drove like that for a year before....

You wont be able to bolt the rear mount in because it wont be level..... and now the shifter wont be straight up and it will be over on the passenger side.... 

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So the 4spd in the pic definitely looks like a 63 series..... 

Look at the 5spd bellhousing... does it look like this?

20181221-034414.jpg

You can see the bolt hole to the right of  rib.. the rib is the center and that housing is level ..

On the L series case the rib would be closer to the next hole on the left.... and  the top 2 bolts would be parallel..... 

I can take a pic of that tomorrow to really show the difference, it's in the garage..... 

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The 26"long 5 speed only came on the 720 Z series engines. There's an easy way to tell....

 

20181221-080355.jpg

 

Follow that center line ridge up to the bolt pattern in the above picture. Hole to the left is L series.

 

20181221-034414.jpg

 

Hole on the right is Z (or KA) series transmission.

 

 

6iVhkAC.jpg

 

The 'Left is L series' will apply to this transmission also, which is a 63 series and has no parts that will fit the 71B series 4 or 5 speed. It's from a dime? It won't have the bolt on driveshaft spline. The 521 truck had those. The shorty 720 transmission should fit in the place of the original 510 4 speed for length but the rear mount will need modifications. Speedometer cable location is the same.

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One part that does fit Mike is the speedo drive... they are the same in the 63 series and the short tail 71b... 

the long tail 71b are different, I believe they use the shorter one.....

I currently am using the one I took out of my short 71b in my 63 series 4spd.... 

 

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My understanding is that the 63 pinions are shorter than the 71B long. Speedo pinions are weird. I've cut the key way 180 out and put one in upside down to get it working in a different transmission. Automatic pinion sleeves are different though they look similar. 

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1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

My understanding is that the 63 pinions are shorter than the 71B long. Speedo pinions are weird.  

The one on the left was in my 63 series 4spd.... the black one came out of the short tail 71b....

20180517-183421.jpg

20180519-215411.jpg

All the long tail 71b use the speedometer pinion that looks like this..

Screenshot-20181221-134608-e-Bay.jpg..... 

I believe they are shorter....

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1raZzfE.jpg

 

Well now what am i gonna do. I was looking at prices of trannies on line, and im gonna have to sell my first born just to get an extra gear...fiddle sticks!!! Welcome to the world of restoration. I guess for now ill look for a bell houing to swap and move on to the now plugged and/or defunct fuel pump, partially working fuel guage, non working temp guage, rattling exhaust, sticking throttle, and god knows what else. Thanks for the info though yall. Kept me from learning the hard way..

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Dont give up on that transmission, no matter what you do other than a dogleg 5spd some work is gonna be needed.. You have what you need,  You can get the bellhousing cheap.... I paid $60 for mine, put a want ad here and I'll bet you get one quick, I had 2 people want to sell me one with in a few days.... it can be the 4 or 5 spd front bellhousing as long as it's from a 71b L series... just make sure you get the small front cover and bearing shim too.... 

the couple things you need to do to swap it  are minimal but worth it.... 

Like I said on my build thread the last 2 or 3 pages are about disassembling the transmission and swapping the front case..... 

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2 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Dont give up on that transmission, no matter what you do other than a dogleg 5spd some work is gonna be needed.. You have what you need,  You can get the bellhousing cheap.... I paid $60 for mine, put a want ad here and I'll bet you get one quick, I had 2 people want to sell me one with in a few days.... it can be the 4 or 5 spd front bellhousing as long as it's from a 71b L series... just make sure you get the small front cover and bearing shim too.... 

the couple things you need to do to swap it  are minimal but worth it.... 

Like I said on my build thread the last 2 or 3 pages are about disassembling the transmission and swapping the front case..... 

I wont give up yet. Hell i can still change my diff to drop my rpms as well. And to answer, i have know idea what the ratio is, yet. Ill just check the smaller stuff off the list first. Last nite i put all the external LEDs in the car, minus the knock off arrowheads, license, and reverse. I learned that im gonna need to update my flasher unit. I also learned that the "i think they are the cheap version" arrowheads dont like the bulbs i bought. They try to arc out when i put them together. Weird as shit. Im wondering if i need to have both of them in in order for it to work properly. Ill say this though, all led lights make one hell of a difference, at least visually. I digress though. I will look into the swap you speak of crash. Im slowly working my way through your last few pages of your thread... again thanks

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I forget which size L motor you have, but I ran mine L16 all summer, probably a combined 1200 highway miles doing 65-70, and ya it was hanging around 3800 to 4000 rpm, motor didnt care , but you dont know how many times I wanted to be able to have 1 more gear.... I think I have 437 gears if I'm right.... 

 

There is a way to check your rear end ratio, just get the rear up on jack stands... some thing between the tire rotations vs the driveshaft rotations...

You'll have to look that up or datzenmike will help me out with that info for you...

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1 hour ago, 510revisited said:

 

 

Well now what am i gonna do. I was looking at prices of trannies on line, and im gonna have to sell my first born just to get an extra gear...fiddle sticks!!! Welcome to the world of restoration. I guess for now ill look for a bell houing to swap and move on to the now plugged and/or defunct fuel pump, partially working fuel guage, non working temp guage, rattling exhaust, sticking throttle, and god knows what else. Thanks for the info though yall. Kept me from learning the hard way..

 

Well there is a way to use the 720 shorty. You have to modify the transmission mount on the cross member anyway. Mount the Z series transmission on the L engine. This will rotate the transmission about 20 degrees to the right or passenger side like the picture below....

 

This is not your transmission (well the one on the left is your 4 speed) just an example for clarity.

MygIJd7.jpg

 

Rotating the transmission also lifts it, so slipping a wedge in there won't work. I would mark where the driveshaft is in the tunnel with the 4 speed and make sure when the 5 speed is installed on the completed mount it's in the same position so the driveshaft angles are preserved. The rest is modifying the cross member and the mount to attain this. This is the only way to bolt it in so that the Z transmission rubber and the L engine mount rubbers are not fighting each other.

 

Yes the transmission will be tilted but there's lots of oil in there and it's splash oiled by the counter shaft gears.

 

The shifter will be sticking into the passenger's hip but that's easily fixed by a strategic bend up to the vertical. I've bent several in a vice using a piece of pipe over the end.

 

Because of the tilt and the fill bung location, you won't be able to fill properly. Go over to the driver's side on the rear case behind the adapter plate and unbolt the reverse check sleeve and wiggle out. The reverse check sleeve is an ingenious device that prevents a down shift from 5th into reverse. Reverse can only be accessed from any other gear or by sliding to the right through the neutral gate and then down into reverse. Put 2 liters of GL-4 in and you're good. This thing...

 

dj4qbBT.jpg?1

 

I won't say there's lots of room to fill. Maybe fill just before installing the cross member?

 

Only downside is maybe oil seepage out the 5 speed's plastic breather. This can be removed and a suitable pipe pressed in with a hose extending upwards to 'keep it's head above water'.

 

This will only cost you for making or modifying the transmission cross member, and like I said... it has to be modified for the 71B mount anyways..

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Well there is a way to use the 720 shorty. You have to modify the transmission mount on the cross member anyway. Mount the Z series transmission on the L engine. This will rotate the transmission about 20 degrees to the right or passenger side like the picture below....

 

This is not your transmission (well the one on the left is your 4 speed) just an example for clarity.

MygIJd7.jpg

 

Rotating the transmission also lifts it, so slipping a wedge in there won't work. I would mark where the driveshaft is in the tunnel with the 4 speed and make sure when the 5 speed is installed on the completed mount it's in the same position so the driveshaft angles are preserved. The rest is modifying the cross member and the mount to attain this. This is the only way to bolt it in so that the Z transmission rubber and the L engine mount rubbers are not fighting each other.

 

Yes the transmission will be tilted but there's lots of oil in there and it's splash oiled by the counter shaft gears.

 

The shifter will be sticking into the passenger's hip but that's easily fixed by a strategic bend up to the vertical.

 

Because of the tilt and the fill bung location, you won't be able to fill properly. Go over to the driver's side on the rear case behind the adapter plate and unbolt the reverse check sleeve and wiggle out. The reverse check sleeve is an ingenious device that prevents a down shift from 5th into reverse. Reverse can only be accessed from any other gear or by sliding to the right through the neutral gate and then down into reverse. Put 2 liters of GL-4 in and you're good. This thing...

 

dj4qbBT.jpg?1

 

I won't say there's lots of room to fill. Maybe fill just before installing the cross member?

 

 

 

Mike, the angle those two trannys are sitting at, is that a true representation of the difference, or close enough to it for a good idea? I thought about mounting it any way, but i would like it to be right. Im confident in my fab skills and welding, i just want it as close to factory as it can be. Im a purist...

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Ya I did that and ran my truck for a year like the, i think i used a block of wood and bailing wire as the rear mount... not a recommended mount.....

So you could do it till you find the bellhousing,  but honestly do you think you'll pull it back out to do properly once it's in and working.....

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8 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

I forget which size L motor you have, but I ran mine L16 all summer, probably a combined 1200 highway miles doing 65-70, and ya it was hanging around 3800 to 4000 rpm, motor didnt care , but you dont know how many times I wanted to be able to have 1 more gear.... I think I have 437 gears if I'm right.... 

 

There is a way to check your rear end ratio, just get the rear up on jack stands... some thing between the tire rotations vs the driveshaft rotations...

You'll have to look that up or datzenmike will help me out with that info for you...

I dont have a ta h, but shes screaming. I used a gps on the phone, and 56 was the highest i saw. Though i took it on the freeway once before without a speedo and she was kinda keeping up. I stayed to the right, but someqhat kept up. I have a four day this weekend, i plan to do some tinkering. Mainly re route the fn exhausts. 

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2 minutes ago, 510revisited said:

Mike, the angle those two trannys are sitting at, is that a true representation of the difference, or close enough to it for a good idea? I thought about mounting it any way, but i would like it to be right. Im confident in my fab skills and welding, i just want it as close to factory as it can be. Im a purist...

And I would say yes that's about the angle.... 

L motors I believe have a 10 degree left tilt, and the z motor 10 degree right tilt, so I think it ends up off 20 degrees total..

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6 minutes ago, 510revisited said:

Mike, the angle those two trannys are sitting at, is that a true representation of the difference, or close enough to it for a good idea? I thought about mounting it any way, but i would like it to be right. Im confident in my fab skills and welding, i just want it as close to factory as it can be. Im a purist...

 

I didn't take that picture so can only say it's close. Either way it's the difference between L and Z series engine tilts. For certain the L series is tilted 12 degrees to the right of vertical. The Z series is slightly to the left as seen from the driver's seat. By my understanding about 18 degrees difference but make your own measurements. Good fabrication and no one will even notice. Besides going to a 71B 5speed is going totally away from factory anyway does it really matter if it's a Z series????

 

4 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Ya I did that and ran my truck for a year like the, i think i used a block of wood and bailing wire as the rear mount... not a recommended mount.....

So you could do it till you find the bellhousing,  but honestly do you think you'll pull it back out to do properly once it's in and working.....

 

A wedge will work but the transmission will rise and throw the drive shaft angles out vertically AND horizontally. Careful measuring is the key here. 

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5 minutes ago, 510revisited said:

I dont have a ta h, but shes screaming. I used a gps on the phone, and 56 was the highest i saw. Though i took it on the freeway once before without a speedo and she was kinda keeping up. I stayed to the right, but someqhat kept up. I have a four day this weekend, i plan to do some tinkering. Mainly re route the fn exhausts. 

Luckily I'm only on the highway for 15 minutes like than... I think it sounds worse than it is at that rpm....

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2 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

 For certain the L series is tilted 12 degrees to the right of vertical. The Z series is slightly to the left as seen from the driver's seat. 

Thanks Mike got that backwards....

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