Jon's 521 L20b 5 speeed

[jon521]

i have the throwout bearing for the 5 spd, the fork for the 5 spd, and the slave and push rod for the 4 spd. this is what i tried today

couldnt quite get the holes to line up. i had pushed the slave back all the way so all the fluid was out of it and in the master res., and it still wouldnt line up....

pretty nasty.

 

here is my completed mount!

[datzenmike]

i have the throwout bearing for the 5 spd, the fork for the 5 spd, and the slave and push rod for the 4 spd. this is what i tried today

couldnt quite get the holes to line up. i had pushed the slave back all the way so all the fluid was out of it and in the master res., and it still wouldnt line up....

 

I think the throwout bearings are pretty much all the same however the collar (or sleeve) that they are mounted on are matched to the clutch being used. You can use any 5 speed and clutch arm but the release collar has to be the one from the motor the tranny is going onto.

 

I may be stating the obvious but the adjustable slave push rod will only work with the matching clutch arm with the hole in it. I don't think any 4 or 5 speed B tranny had the hole in the clutch arm, that was a 521/510 and early 620 4 speed item.

 

 

BTW, really nice tranny mount.

[jon521]

I think the throwout bearings are pretty much all the same however the collar (or sleeve) that they are mounted on are matched to the clutch being used. You can use any 5 speed and clutch arm but the release collar has to be the one from the motor the tranny is going onto.

 

I may be stating the obvious but the adjustable slave push rod will only work with the matching clutch arm with the hole in it. I don't think any 4 or 5 speed B tranny had the hole in the clutch arm, that was a 521/510 and early 620 4 speed item.

 

 

BTW, really nice tranny mount.

 

 

sorry, when i refer to the throwout bearing, i am refering to the collar as well. when i first got the trans, i removed the old bearing and pressed the new on right away with the collar that was in it. so i have the 5 spd throwout bearing AND collar, 5 spd fork, 4 spd slave and push rod. sssooo what your saying is that i should order a new slave? one for a 79 620? on rockauto, only like 10 bucks + shipping....not bad.

 

thanks! i wish i could say it was my welding job, but it is definetly not work, it is my brothers. i built it and tacked it together and then gave it to him to weld.

 

one step closer.......

[wayno]

i have the throwout bearing for the 5 spd, the fork for the 5 spd, and the slave and push rod for the 4 spd. this is what i tried today

couldnt quite get the holes to line up. i had pushed the slave back all the way so all the fluid was out of it and in the master res., and it still wouldnt line up....

pretty nasty.

 

here is my completed mount!

 

Can you get the bolts in if the rod is not in the slave? If you can, then the rod is to long, you need to make a rod out of a 12mm headed bolt that is long enough to cut down till you find the length that just allows you to get the bolts started with just a little play, maybe a 16th of an inch play.

[datzenmike]

Just to be clear... there are 3 clutch sizes and I don't know what the 5 speed was off so I don't know what size clutch the collars is that was on it.

 

Just to be safe, use your old collar that was on your motor and put it on the 5 speed clutch arm . Now the collar is matched to your old clutch and is compatible with it.

[jon521]

Can you get the bolts in if the rod is not in the slave? If you can, then the rod is to long, you need to make a rod out of a 12mm headed bolt that is long enough to cut down till you find the length that just allows you to get the bolts started with just a little play, maybe a 16th of an inch play.

 

 

the bolts should go in without the rod there. since i am not with it right now, do you know if the dust boot on the push rod is removable? if you dont know i will just check tomorrow. so if i made my own rod, the piston in the slave should be pushed back all the way, and the rod tight against the fork?

[jon521]

Just to be clear... there are 3 clutch sizes and I don't know what the 5 speed was off so I don't know what size clutch the collars is that was on it.

 

Just to be safe, use your old collar that was on your motor and put it on the 5 speed clutch arm . Now the collar is matched to your old clutch and is compatible with it.

 

 

i do not exactly understand what your saying.....i have the 225mm flywheel and clutch. the engine and trans were not together when i bought them. the engine had an auto on it. i got the 5 speed out of a late 70s 620. it came with the fork and T/O bearing and collar, which i am using at the moment (with a new bearing).

[yello620]

Jon, I think that what you have for clutch/collar/bearing should be fine, it is already installed so stop worrying about that part for now. You will know if they are the wrong combo right after you install a slave cylinder.

 

I think you need to do one of two thigs for a slave.

1. Drill hole in arm for the 521 rod to stick through, or

2. Order a 620 slave.

 

I would favor the second option after seeing that pic of the nastyness inside the boot of your 521 slave.

[jon521]

Jon, I think that what you have for clutch/collar/bearing should be fine, it is already installed so stop worrying about that part for now. You will know if they are the wrong combo right after you install a slave cylinder.

 

I think you need to do one of two thigs for a slave.

1. Drill hole in arm for the 521 rod to stick through, or

2. Order a 620 slave.

 

I would favor the second option after seeing that pic of the nastyness inside the boot of your 521 slave.

 

 

Thank you! thats what i needed to hear, but all input helps!

 

i will probably order a new slave, in the mean time build a rod so if i finish everything else and the new slave isnt here yet, i can take it for a spin :)

[yello620]

i will probably order a new slave, in the mean time build a rod so if i finish everything else and the new slave isnt here yet, i can take it for a spin :)

 

Screw building a rod, just cut the 521 rod shorter. Cut a little bit at a time.

 

Good Luck

[wayno]

This is how I make a rod for my clutch slave, I mount the slave on the tranny without the rod, then I guesstimate how long the rod needs to be and cut it out of a 12mm headed bolt from a timing chain cover or some other long 12mm headed bolt, make sure it is to long, because if it is to short, you have to start over, then grind the end round/smooth so it sits in the fork/clutch slave without sharp edges, then what I do is take a large ajustable crescent wrench and pry the throwout bearing fork like you are pressing on the clutch and slide the rod into position, I keep repeating this till the fork has just a little play/just loose, after it is right I put the boot on the rod and put it in position, then you are more than likely done. What datsunmike was getting at I think is what size clutch disc/cover was on the engine that you got the tranny from, hopefully it was 225mm, as that is what you are running now, if it was 200 or 240(doubtfull), then the throwout bearing collar might be wrong. I have never had an issue before myself, I have went from 225 to 240 and didn't change the collar with no issues, but maybe that is why I am always making new rods to get the clutch ajustment right. :rolleyes:

[datzenmike]

i do not exactly understand what your saying.....i have the 225mm flywheel and clutch. the engine and trans were not together when i bought them. the engine had an auto on it. i got the 5 speed out of a late 70s 620. it came with the fork and T/O bearing and collar, which i am using at the moment (with a new bearing).

 

OK sorry to be so dense. You have a 225mm clutch and PP and the 5 speed should have the correct collar as it's what came on the 620s. So the internal parts should match.

 

As to the slave pushrod the threaded one you have was intended to fit the clutch arm with a hole in it. Either get the correct length or make one. You can replace the slave but unless it comes with a new push rod this won't help.

[DanielC]

Wyano's method will work, but as the clutch disk wears, you will need to make a new slave pushrod. The wear on the clutch disk uses up the free play you have when the clutch disk is at its original thickness. If the freeplay is gone, it keeps the throwout bearing constantly on the pressure plate, greatly shortening its life, and if not fixed, it then will hold your clutch partially disengaged, and then both the throwout bearing, and the disk completely wear out soon after.

[jon521]

Mike

i was assuming that a new slave would come with a push rod, as it shows it in the picture, atleast on rockauto. maybe im assuming wrong

 

Daniel

thank you, i will keep that in mind. but if i get a new slave and pushrod, those look non adjustable because there is no hole in the fork, so how would you deal with this problem then?

[DanielC]

I am not exactly sure how a "nonadjustable" slave cylinder allows for the clutch disk wear. It might be a design difference in the master cylinder, or some other solution, I am not aware of.

[wayno]

Your making this to hard, just make a rod the right length using you 521 slave, if your worried about it, clean the slave up a little, it will get it on the road and then you can drive it to someone that knows a little more, bring it over here, i'll help you, just make sure that when the rod is in place that it has a 1/16 of an inch play/slop. You can make a rod with a long bolt the same thickness of the stock rod with a hack saw and grinder to smooth the edges.

[jon521]

i was tired of thinking about it and just ground down the stock push rod, rounded the edges, got it to fit in there, and decided to figure out adjustment later. because the 620 slaves ive looked at are not adjustable at the pushrod, maybe they are adjustable at the pedal? i mean, they have to be adjustable some where right?

 

painted the exhaust manifold today, and got my plugs for the holes in the mail today. after my manifold dried, i put the intake and exhaust manifolds on hand tight, and will be torqueing them in the morning. i have had to make a quite a few trips to ace, picking up different bolts, since the L20b was missing some bolts, and my l16 was missing some too, different sizes, etc. SO hopefully i can atleast get my starter on tomorrow and get it to turn over, maybe even fire if im lucky. thad be the best birthday present ever right there. i will get some pictures, and if it runs i will get a video.

[wayno]

Once I have made a pushrod for the clutch slave I have never had to ajust it/change it. I am not entirely sure why the 521s had an ajustable rod, I suppose that it was there in case the disc wore out, maybe the design of the clutch arm(4 spd.) itself has something to do with it. There is no ajustment on the 620?/720s because there was no need, maybe it's self ajusting. You will know if the pedel is wrong, as no matter how short you make the rod it will always be tight.

[crackerjack69]

Got those goodies ready for you Jon. Can't wait to see the vid :hyper:

[jon521]

I was so close to having it running! i did get it to turn it over a few times with the starter, but i pulled manifolds off one to check and make sure nothing had slipped down into the head, one last time. also, two of the 3 exhaust manifold studs had the nuts rusted to them that i could not break free, so i think im going to pickup some bolts that will go in there. ALSO, those plugs i ordered for the holes in the exhaust manifold were 12mm by 1.5! i need 14mm by 1.5! those damn canadians messing up my order! haha just kidding about the canadians. it took about a week for these damn plugs to get here from canada so it will probably take another 2 weeks to send these back and get the correct ones, so i am going to devise some sort of temporary plug until i get the correct ones. i would have had it running if i had more time. but it was so nice to hear it turn over! im pretty stoked! and now that im 18 (as of today), i will probably go pick up a cigar and save it for when i finish my truck, then go take it for a cruise and smoke that cigar :)

 

hey chris, my phone isnt working, i sent you an email though

[wayno]

Happy B-day, I guess some progress is better than no progress. You should be able to find what you need a parkrose hardware to plug the smog holes, maybe a bolt turned in, then cut off level as possible. I have used a brass plug there before, with a square head, or maybe it was a allen type hole. I would buy new studs for the exhaust mani, if you can't get the last one out use heat(torch) on it, and just before you turn it, hit the base of it from the side with a hammer, hit the exhaust mani, not the stud. I wish you were closer.

[crackerjack69]

I hear guys saying you gotta use pipe thread plugs. And I've heard of regular bolts backing out of the threads and shooting out. I guess if it were my problem, I'd just take the stick welder and plug-weld the holes. I've never had any of the smog stuff though, all my intakes and exhausts on my shelfs and rigs are non-smog. On a side note, you mentioned you might want me to ship that stuff down. I just got a box full of SU's in the mail. They were in one of those "large flat-rate boxes". It looks like that's the size needed to ship the parts to you. Point is, looks like it's $14.95 on the shipping sticker, so BAM! ther's your shipping quote :D Although it'd be more fun if you came up here w/ the truck to get 'em. Then we could race! Just got all the parts I need, and I hope to hear my new cam by Monday. Happy B-day man, get that vid up soon.

[.sunlover]

Yep, :) happy late birthday Jon. good luck man

Haha, my gf says the same thing :)

[.sunlover]

I hear guys saying you gotta use pipe thread plugs. And I've heard of regular bolts backing out of the threads and shooting out. I guess if it were my problem, I'd just take the stick welder and plug-weld the holes. I've never had any of the smog stuff though, all my intakes and exhausts on my shelfs and rigs are non-smog. On a side note, you mentioned you might want me to ship that stuff down. I just got a box full of SU's in the mail. They were in one of those "large flat-rate boxes". It looks like that's the size needed to ship the parts to you. Point is, looks like it's $14.95 on the shipping sticker, so BAM! ther's your shipping quote :D Although it'd be more fun if you came up here w/ the truck to get 'em. Then we could race! Just got all the parts I need, and I hope to hear my new cam by Monday. Happy B-day man, get that vid up soon.

 

Aren't you talking about welding steel to cast iron? Okay for low pressure?

[H5WAGON]

I was at the hardware store the other day....I was going to grab some.

 

I thought shipping from Portland would have been a pain..:o I could still do this for you if wanted?