410/411 disc brake mod

[pl521sss]

hey i need some sort of brakes for a 411 bluebird wagon 66 whetherit be a conversion kit or just old drum brakes it runs and drives so i want to fix the brakes if you find any thing that can help me please give me some info thanks!

 

Did you read this thread? :blink:

[mklotz70]

small update.....

 

I did get the art finished...sent it to the cutter.....the first set is cut and either in the mail, or will be shortly.

 

Just wanted to let the 411 guys know that I haven't completely stopped working on these.

 

I want to give a heads up too.....these will either have "OFF ROAD USE ONLY" either engraved/stamped into the brackets, or will come with a disclaimer paper. In an effort to limit liability....I don't think I'll be including any of the bolts...basically, it will be the brackets and the bearing spacers.....which will also make them cheaper. I will have a recommended list of parts with the sizes/parts needed. The hub turning will still be priced separately so guys can have it done locally.....or they can get shipped to me.....similar disclaimer will come with them.

 

This has nothing to do with the buyers....and everything to do with the lawyers of the other person's insurance.

[mklotz70]

SWEET!!!! The first prototyped set of water jet cut brackets came in today!!! Here's some pics. Hopefully, I'll get off my duff and get these setup in the next couple of days. If I did everything right, they should mount up just fine.....so then.....couple final decisions...like price, included parts......then on to deposits. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I signed onto photobucket to upload these pics....it told me I was out of space. Seems I managed to squeeze 640MB onto my 500MB account. Says there's 2900 files in my account!!!!!!!! If you figure an average of 40 seconds of handling per pic (taking/upload/linking....which is a good bit less than it takes) ....I've got over 32 solid hours invested in pics on PB. That's not counting the time posting them all. Since most of those are up somewhere on Ratsun....I'm wondering if anyone else has actually posted more pics. :) Oh.....I upgraded to Pro(50x more space) just so I could post these :)

[AZhitman]

YAY!!!!

 

I am SO ready to tear into this!!! I gotta rebuild the entire front suspension anyway, figured I may as well do the brakes and all!

[p411]

MIKE LET ME KNOW WHEN ITS A GO THANK YOU SIR !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[MikeRL411]

YAY!!!!

 

I am SO ready to tear into this!!! I gotta rebuild the entire front suspension anyway, figured I may as well do the brakes and all!

 

Side comment, if you find a source for 411 upper and lower ball joints let me know! Not having problems but after 41 years, something may say "good bye" any year now. Regular application of a good grade of grease is a wonderful thing.

[mklotz70]

I did think about looking at the ball joint situation, but I didn't think about it long. I don't even own a 411. Unless someone steps up with upper/lower control arms and plenty of cash......I don't think it will be me digging into it anytime soon. Heck....I still haven't gotten the brakes done! :) Speaking of which.....I'd better go hit the shop!

[mklotz70]

Put a bit of time into the 411 stuff last night. Pressed the lug bolts back into the hubs. I don't think I've posted the pics of my press mods anywhere else. I got tired of the handle sticking in it's hole because the bump wouldn't stop it from pushing through. Made it a pain everytime I needed to pull it out to release the valve. So, I drill across the back of the hole and put in a cotter pin to stop the handle pushing through. Then, I cobbled some pieces together to make a handle for the valve. SOOOOOO much nicer!!!! I can leave the jack handle in it's place and still release the pressure. I should have done this years ago!!!!

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

I started to clean up the mill scale with a stripitall disc....what a pain....so into the acid they went. So much easier!!!! Then I hit them with the disc. Got them mocked up...everything is really close. I'll take it back apart and grind bevels for weld penetration. I just might be welding these up tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

Another small update. Started working on the jig for the brackets. I figured out that the triangle created between the center of the large hole and the two holes in the tabs, is an isosceles triangle. What that means is that I can use one jig for both left and right brackets. So, I have a chunk of C channel, but it's actually fairly flexible. I figured I'd weld some reinforcements under the bottom. Hopefully, tomorrow, I'll start the machine work. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

So I'm still a complete newb to CAD, but I somehow manage to get what I want out of it. I went back in to the artwork I had previously done and had it give me the dimensions for the welding jig. I was able to group it all together as one unit, rotate it so the tab holes were parallel to the page, then measure the distances from hole to hole. I already had the measurement from center to center, what I needed now was more of a coordinate measurement. So if I choose the center of the large hole as my reference point, I need to know how far on the X axis and how far on the Y axis I need to go. I could probably do it in the DRO by telling it the exact angle, then use the center to center measurement, but I think that would just add room for error. Anyway...I got the dimensions for the tab hole placement and picked one other hole as a reference for the main plate position. Since the plates are a mirror image, I can simply go to the opposite side and add another hole to reference the other plate.

This way, I only have to make one jig for left/right. The only thing that will change is which plate reference hole I use. :)

 

[mklotz70]

I spent some more time on the jig tonight. I made feet on the bottom to make it easier to level up. There was still a slight twist, so I filed the high ones down until it wouldn't rock any more. I then turned it over and clamped it above the feet. I laid the bracket in between the clamps to make sure that I could fly cut enough surface. The sharpie lines are to make sure I cut far enough. You can see just how wavy the surface was from the first cut. The final cut isn't perfect, but it's certainly close enough! :) The pic of the clamp is to show the battle damage from trying to snake the fly cutter....I used one swinging over 3" and should have used a smaller one.......between the clamps....oops. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

bit more progress on the jig. Hopefully, tomorrow, I'll have it pretty much done :)

 

 

 

 

[]2eDeYe]

I think I like the jig more than the brackets :cool:

[mklotz70]

...probably cause you don't have a need for the bracket :) I don't have a need for any of it.....part of the reason I get side tracked so easily! :)

[Noiin]

this stuff is loking really good. and very kool!

nice work

[mklotz70]

So...I'll skip the part of how I made the disc. It's done and registers with a 1/4" dowel pin just like the other two. One of the brackets went right on...the other was a bit off, so I cut the spot welds and re-tacked it on the jig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I then fit it to the spindle. The tolerances are so stinkin' tight that I think it's a definite possibility that guys will have to do a bit of filling to get the clearance needed. As you can see, I only had to shave just a bit off to get the bolts in. Shouldn't be an issue, but if anyone has a prob with that small amount of grinding......don't order the brake kit!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And....I welded them up. I still have to mill the tabs, but it doesn't look like Doug is going to bring the wgn back to put these on until end of sept or oct. So....I don't have time tonight, but I guess we're getting to the 'taking orders' phase. I don't imagine there's much point in waiting for Doug since the only clearance issues are right at the spindles. There was tons of room on the car. The biggest reason Doug is getting these brackets is because that was part of the deal. :) Anyway.....

 

 

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Hey Mike awesome work as always. You take the time to do all the trial & error stuff.The brackets look clean.

[mklotz70]

Hey Mike awesome work as always. You take the time to do all the trial & error stuff.The brackets look clean.

 

Thanks! ......and that's exactly why I can't seem to make more than about $5/hr on this stuff :( Hopefully, since I've taken the time to do the jig, it won't take much time at all to make the brackets ....at least for the 411's. I need to do something similar for the trucks....but beebani's pretty much covered that market.....so I may just hang on to the brackets I have....something tells me I'm going to need another set for myself :)

[compression]

Mike you should get them zinc plated.

TFC plating in SE portland does stuff for pretty cheap. it is more economical to do a bunch of brackets and plate them all at once...obviously.

 

great work!

[mklotz70]

Thanks! I'll see about checking them out. For this setup, I don't think there will be enough sold to bother with it. Besides....I have so much time into these things that they'll be going out in bare steel. I can't afford to spend any more time putting them together than I have to or I'd have to push the price to $350/set....which no one will buy.

 

I'm basically to the point of taking deposits to find out who's serious and who's blowin' smoke. I'll try to start putting the word out tomorrow morning or evening, but if anyone following this is serious....pm me for my paypal address.

 

As posted previously....the brackets, bolts, loctite, bearing spacers, brake line adapters will be $250+$15 shipping.

The hub machining will be $50+$15 shipping. They're priced separately since some guys will be able to have the machining done locally.

[AZhitman]

First set is MINE!

 

Now I just have to source the rest of the front end parts...

 

Figured if I'm gonna tear into her that much, I may as well make the front suspension fully roadworthy.

 

Any tips or leads on front end components are appreciated via PM.

[mklotz70]

Considering you're the only one to respond, you maybe the only one getting a set. :)

[pl521sss]

Considering you're the only one to respond, you maybe the only one getting a set. :)

 

 

 

Make that 2

[mklotz70]

turns out that first set isn't going to hitman. I put the offer out to him since I thought he was going to get it on before JCCS. These will most likely go to Doug. I'm thinking I'll draw the line at next friday. Whatever orders I get by then, I'll order brackets for. After that, I will not be doing 411 brakes anymore. It's the weekend, so hardly anyone is here anyway.......but as I said early on, these will be on a deposit basis. If I don't get a deposit, I'm not making brakes for them.