410/411 disc brake mod

[ppeters914]

I just saw this and I am interested in any possibility of upgrading my 411 to front disks.. What do I need and how much will it cost me :)

Start by reading the entire thread. Yes, it's long, but answers both your questions.

 

Pete

[mklotz70]

Thanks for the interest.....I'll respond to your pm. :)

 

Basically....$270 + shipping($15 if you're in the states). You'll need rotor/calipers from a '93 Infinity G20. You'll need to either have the hubs turned to fit in the rotors or the rotors opened up to fit the hubs. I can do either, but it's extra $'s above the kit.

 

If the hubs get turned, any new rotor will fit. If the rotor gets turned, the car can go back to stock...not sure why anyone would go back to drums after discs.

 

That's the basics. :)

[ppeters914]

You'll need rotor/calipers from a '93 Infinity G20.

...and a brake m/c and D50 hoses and....there's a list in this thread.

 

You'll need to either have the hubs turned to fit in the rotors or the rotors opened up to fit the hubs. I can do either, but it's extra $'s above the kit.

 

If the hubs get turned, any new rotor will fit. If the rotor gets turned, the car can go back to stock...not sure why anyone would go back to drums after discs.

HEADS UP: If you get the rotors bored to fit the hub (like I did - the machine shop I went to didn't feel turning the hubs was safe), you'll probably want to replace the 7/16-20 wheel lugs w/ M12 otherwise there's quite a bit of slop.

 

Then you have to ask yourself, do I want different sized wheel lugs on front and rear? I'll probably replace the rear wheel lugs w/ M12 since I have to replace 'em anyway (too short for aftermarket wheels I have).

 

Pete

[mklotz70]

Good info....I don't think you ever told me that's what they said. I leave the decision up to the owner. I wonder if I can figure out how to measure the thickness at that point. ...hhmmm....a spare scrap hub....that I could cut in half!!! Anyone got one? :)

[ppeters914]

 

HEADS UP: If you get the rotors bored to fit the hub (like I did - the machine shop I went to didn't feel turning the hubs was safe), you'll probably want to replace the 7/16-20 wheel lugs w/ M12 otherwise there's quite a bit of slop.

 

Then you have to ask yourself, do I want different sized wheel lugs on front and rear? I'll probably replace the rear wheel lugs w/ M12 since I have to replace 'em anyway (too short for aftermarket wheels I have).

 

Pete

Good info....I don't think you ever told me that's what they said. I leave the decision up to the owner. I wonder if I can figure out how to measure the thickness at that point. ...hhmmm....a spare scrap hub....that I could cut in half!!! Anyone got one? :)

 

Somehow they measured it, and said the amount left was insufficient to properly support the bearing. It might be okay, it might not. They just didn't want to take chance and be the shop that did it and have it fail. This particular machine shop has been building and racing mostly American iron since the late 60's.

 

I was in a hurry at the time, and didn't bother to check with other shops.

 

Pete

[mklotz70]

Turns out my water jet guy is out of commission for a bit. I've submitted the art to have 3 sets cut by the laser guys. One set is already sold. I will have two more sets available in the next month.

[mklotz70]

These could have gone in the welding thread, but basically, I wanted to show the guys interested in these kits, that I am working one them!! :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

Since I showed the brackets being welded, thought you might like a few of the spacers being turned. If you notice the pic of the spacer NOT fitting down on the spindle, that's because I undersized it by .001". It will have to be heated slightly to install. :)

 

I just got 3 more sets of 411 brackets cut by the laser shop....one of them is already spoken for....so I've got two more available. These will get welded and plated along with the truck brackets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

I've been working on a set of hubs from Brett. I just thought I'd share some pics and findings :)

 

New rotor for reference....you can see how the nose of the hub is a bit big...

 

 

 

 

This is how the first hub was done and how it compares to the original.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought about what Pete posted about the machine shop...so I thought I'd do some measuring. They're not in the best order, but I think you'll get the idea. These measurements and thicknesses are of the thinnest spot, which is the notch where you place the drift punch to remove the bearing race. There's a ton more meat everywhere else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My biggest concern was losing the "gusset" at the base of the nose....so I did a bit more measuring and decided to cut a 45 deg gusset, leaving more meat.

 

 

 

 

[mklotz70]

..dang picture limit! :)

 

 

All of that measuring....the 1/32" is how much thinner the wall was than stock. The 8mm references are how thick the wall is at that thinnest point....which is only about a 3/8" area, at most.

 

 

I was hoping to leave the stock gusset at the base so that drums could be put back on, but the lip that was left hit the bevel on the rotor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the 45 bevel cut completely, the hub seated completely. I will turn any future hubs this same way. :)

 

 

[mklotz70]

oh...as for the lugs and slop Pete mentioned....there's some rotational slop between the lugs and the lug holes, but I cut these hubs so that there's no detectable play between the center hole and the hub. If you notice the extra step in the nose cut(about 5/16" up from the base), I put that in for two reasons.....it cleans up the casting differences more and it makes it easier to mount the rotor by not having to slide it so far along such a tight fit. There's one more reason which deals with machining an interrupted cut, but I won't bore you :)

[bananahamuck]

..dang picture limit! :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sooo i ASS--umed that disc was flat on back lip.. Seeing this may change what i need to get done

[mklotz70]

uummm.....I know you're waiting for a plated kit, but I'm lost past that.

[bananahamuck]

..dang picture limit! :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this picture shows my problem better.

I told you that i could turn my hubs on my lathe myself, but if you think i need to do this i may have to send them to you after all. {and pay you of course}.........

 

because like i wrote i can square and parallel but i know i cant angle cut like that.

[mklotz70]

That sounds familiar. I would recommend it, but I seriously think you can still do it. You can turn the X and Z axis' at the same time to get it close enough. I was only turning it at about 200 rpm if I remember right. You could probably also file it down...carefully :)

[WAGON JON]

Absolutely amazing Mike!

[mklotz70]

Thanks :)

 

 

small update.....I've gotten the brackets back from the welder....I'm hoping to find time to machine the brackets this weekend and get them to the plater on monday.

[mklotz70]

they are at the plater's. I believe bananahamuck has one of the 3 spoken for already....he's been patiently waiting for a plated kit. If he still wants one, I have 2 kits left. I'll get them back from the plater mid next week?

[mklotz70]

I've gotten the brackets back from the plater. One is spoken for...or was?...so I have two kits.

 

 

[bananahamuck]

Or Was?

 

Who dat?

[mklotz70]

.....so I've got two kits available. :)

[ppeters914]

oh...as for the lugs and slop Pete mentioned....there's some rotational slop between the lugs and the lug holes, but I cut these hubs so that there's no detectable play between the center hole and the hub.

Yes, the slop is between the lug bolts and the lug holes.

 

I just now realized that you'll have slop whether you bore the rotor or turn down the hub. Either way you still have 7/16-inch lug bolts on the hub, and a rotor that was designed for M12 lug bolts.

 

Since I have to replace the lug bolts anyway (they're too short), I figured going w/ the larger M12 bolts would eliminate/minimize the slop.

 

I would recommend turning the hubs instead of boring the rotors so it's a one-time process/cost.

[ppeters914]

I've gotten the brackets back from the plater.

 

 

Gee, wish I had pretty plated brackets. :(

[mklotz70]

I still have 2 of these kits left. They will be the last kits I make for quite some time....most likely forever.

[mklotz70]

My pm box is getting full....mainly from trying to hang onto pm's from guys that have asked about brake kits. Since the vast majority of them have been notified and not responded....(some are transactions that are already finished)....I'm going to clean out my pm box and start fresh. I've got a handful of things that I want to do this next year and brake kits are not on the list so I'd like to get these sold so I can get out of them.

 

If you have an interest in brakes....check out the first post and the install links, then pm me. Thanks.