The big three.... assholes.

[zerow]

Back in the 70's, people used to make fun of Datsuns, VWs and Toyotas..people use to say crap like ha, ha, made in Japan, tin can and so on...

 

I'm not old enough to have seen the actual newsreel, but I recall a story about how some UAW members back in the early '70s took a brand new Toyota Corona and beat the holy hell out of it. It looked worse than a rollover accident, not a piece worth saving. All for the sake of showing how poorly made the cars from Japan were, and to buy American.

 

Flash forward 35 years. Now we are restoring these "tin cans", getting better gas mileage in a 30-something year old car or truck versus what is being offered at a dealership today. The Japanese/German/Swedish/British/etc. got it right, and never looked back.

[Icehouse]

Think about it... the world (billions of years) and the people on it have been around for tens of thousands of years. Civilization for thousands more or less. And in the space of 80-100 years everything revolves around cars?????? The economy is intimately controlled and influenced by it???? How much or the worlds glass, rubber, steel, aluminum, copper and plastic goes into new car production each year????? worldwide!!!! We are no better than the former civilization on Easter Island that used up all the trees transporting huge stone carvings until they couldn't build boats to fish with, or escape. If we survive the collapse of civilization story tellers will say this about us to the young ones around the fires at night: "the Great Ones were arrogant and proud and wasted everything they had and the fall from heaven was far and hard"

 

I think of that all the time Mike, all my relatives are yuppies, at family get together they all so up in there SUV's. Saying,"I have 2 kids I need 4 wheel drive and a 5 ton towing capacity..." I just think of the millions of mothers in the past that were lucky to give birth to kids without dying let alone worry about there 5.125 ton SUV... Todays life is all about ego's, I have to be better off than the so and so down the street, I need a bigger car, a bigger house, I deserve everything!!

 

I think that is why I've always been into datto's I've never seen the need for a bigger rig. Frank has 4 kids and he even says SUV's are pointless. I really like his quote, "When your kids are young its easy to fit them in a average sedan, when the get older they have there own license and don't want to ride with you anyways." :D My parents had 4 kids, I remember all of us kids pilling in his VW carmen gia haha

 

As for the bailout I don't know what we should do, it seems either way we get fucked one way or another. I just feel bad for all the retires of the big 3, if they go under its going to be bad for them.

[datzenmike]

I think I mentioned an old friend just retired two years ago after 30 years at GM Oshawa. If I had stayed I would now have been retired for five years... meh. I'm going to call him up before X-mass and I'll ask him for his take on things. I wonder If GM going under will affect his pension or not. Scary thought at his age with no real skills.

[comply]

and NO MORE FUCKING IRAQUI TECH SUPPORT!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

WTF, they dont need boats!!!!! they need less military, and more US soldiers!

 

/facepalm

[a.d._510_n_ok]

Please Mr. Strahl, no bail out for the auto industry

 

Friday, November 21, 2008

Dear Chuck Strahl:

Re: Bail out of the auto industry.

 

In 1972 I started selling cars at a Datsun (Nissan) dealership. There was the Datsun 510, which had an overhead cam engine. You could rev up the engine to 8,000 rpm, drive it like a race car and the car handled great. Toyota had the Corolla.

 

I said then that the Big Three are in trouble (1972). Why? Because the competition from the Big Three were the Ford Pinto, the Chevy Vega and the Dodge Omni.

 

These three pieces of junk came out of Detroit and Oshawa. No wonder they are in financial trouble. They did not want to build good small cars and kept pushing the large vehicles onto the market.

 

In my opinion they deserve to go into bankruptcy. My tax dollars could be better spent somewhere else. Especially when the auto industry executives show up in Washington the other day in their private jets.

 

The VP of GM Canada has two private jets and a helicopter, plus a salary worth millions. These men to me are pigs at the trough, with no foresight but their own personal gain. Please, no bailout for the auto industry.

 

Keith Nerbas,

 

Chilliwack

 

http://www.canada.com/chilliwacktimes/news/community/story.html?id=76a8019d-0245-4a4f-9346-0d199fcbfa45

[Llittle_Llama]

/facepalm

 

what?!?

[datzenmike]

The Dodge omni wasn't around till '78. Here:

 

"The year is 1978. Chrysler Corporation attempts to stay alive, making marketing changes in their product line. Chrysler continues to offer larger cars in weakening economic times. On November 2, 1978, the new Chrysler president, Lee Iacocca, replaces chairman John Riccardo.

 

The first front-wheel-drive subcompact car ever to be built in America hits the showroom...the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon. [Webmaster notes:] Based on the Horizon of Chrysler Europe, [End note]the Omni/Horizon would help to save the corporation from bankruptcy. For once, Chrysler displayed a product that was right for the times."

 

I had an 82 Dodge Omni O24 and it was a great little car. Whereas the Vega (Chevy) Astra (Pontiac) and the Pinto were absolute CRAP! If anything they taught us to hate small cars and probably did more for boosting sales of bigger cars. Please don't lump the Omni in with these POS cars.

 

Mr. Keith Nerbas, I'm embarrassed for you.

Edited December 18, 2008 by datzenmike

[fiveNdime]

Its a loose loose situation for us. If we don't bail them out we loose a tone of jobs and potentially loose more of our economy down the toilet, and if we do bail them out we eat the cost! They do make some sweet cars so don't be a dumbass and say that they dont. I am currently looking at the SRT8 Cherokee which would kick the ass of tons of sweet datsuns. Please don't waste my time with my datsun is faster, I don't care:eek:. My point is that you have a choice to buy any car. This is obviously reminding the big 3 that they need to step up and take some advice from the Japanese and foreign markets.

 

A little note, the average GM employee costs 73 bucks to employ!

[racerx]

Please Mr. Strahl, no bail out for the auto industry

 

Friday, November 21, 2008

Dear Chuck Strahl:

Re: Bail out of the auto industry.

 

In 1972 I started selling cars at a Datsun (Nissan) dealership. There was the Datsun 510, which had an overhead cam engine. You could rev up the engine to 8,000 rpm, drive it like a race car and the car handled great. Toyota had the Corolla.

 

I said then that the Big Three are in trouble (1972). Why? Because the competition from the Big Three were the Ford Pinto, the Chevy Vega and the Dodge Omni.

 

These three pieces of junk came out of Detroit and Oshawa. No wonder they are in financial trouble. They did not want to build good small cars and kept pushing the large vehicles onto the market.

 

In my opinion they deserve to go into bankruptcy. My tax dollars could be better spent somewhere else. Especially when the auto industry executives show up in Washington the other day in their private jets.

 

The VP of GM Canada has two private jets and a helicopter, plus a salary worth millions. These men to me are pigs at the trough, with no foresight but their own personal gain. Please, no bailout for the auto industry.

 

Keith Nerbas,

 

Chilliwack

 

http://www.canada.com/chilliwacktimes/news/community/story.html?id=76a8019d-0245-4a4f-9346-0d199fcbfa45

 

I am beginning to think that we should not bail out the big 3. They have been making money off our backs and because of bad strategic decisions, like the post before mine and my post, why should I dole out my hard earned cash or taxes for automakers who only care about short term profits. And what about the CEOs who got bonuses like $27 million eventhough they were going bankrupt. Why should we reward bad bevavior? Yes, millions of people will lose their jobs but why should I feel guilty for someones bad decision. we've had the technology to bridge the gap between the Japanese hybrids and sustainable energy. They should have invested wisely and these fools knew that the price of gas was skyrocketing. Yet, they kep on buying these big SUVs and trucks. Yes, they were selling them but they got greedy and forgot about hybrids. You see that's the problem we have in America. It's not a budget deficit or bankcruptcy, it's a lack of "solid" leadership. The 3 CEOS who went to congress begging for money had the nerve to arrive there with their private Jets and so on, when word got out they quickly said that they will fly commercial or sell their JETS...no way man, it's time for an evolution to occur, meaning the one with INTEGRITY, VISION and lack of GREED will take over. I am hoping that we learn something from this clusterfuck and eventually come out of it with better leaders and cars.

[banzai510(hainz)]

the average GM employee costs 73 bucks to employ! ?????

a Chevy Cobalt is still cheaper than a Toyota Corrola!!!!!

 

You want a SRT8 Cherokee. Man you must be a high roller$$$$$$$$

 

I want a Jeep Wrangler 4 door Sahara or Rubicon.

 

The big 3 only made cars what the people wanted.Its a true capitolistic nature.

The Jap cars have Gotton bigger in the USA except for the Prius and really I dont know if they really make a profit with those untill the gas got up to 4$ a gallon.

Nissan Titan,Toyota Tuntra,New pathfinders are huge!!!!

 

also gas was up due to speculation. Remember when the Iranians would just paint a missle the west would say OH NO the oil supply.

Now Opec cut production 2.2 million barrels yesterday the a barrel of oil drop 3 $. Explain that one!!!!!!!!

 

I think if the Asian/Indian/South American countries stop imposeing a Import tax on our stuff the US companies the big 3 would be fine.

 

 

But as any country Rome fell, then the English manufacturing(the industrial revelution) We had it now its Asia soon to be China /Korea and India. Then after those guys want to much money it will be Martians on another planet.

 

I hope the Big 3 survive myself. At least the jeep Division of Chrysler.

[]2eDeYe]

Don't worry Hainz. Jeep is one of the most valuable brands out there.

 

I'd love to get a new 4 door Rubicon. Just can't justify 2 Jeeps in the driveway right now :P

[racerx]

Yes, why couldn't we tax the crap out of imports like what they do to American cars. This is just the beginning. China and India are beginning to make their own cars. They are where Hyundai used to be 15 years ago. Again people are not realizing that we have lost our competitive edge maybe 15 years ago. In physics, they call it atrophy- means to waste away. Sure the big 3 makes sweet cars but now it's about being effective and efficient and in which case they are not. More important, it's about reputation. The vast majority of Americans and the world sees our cars as second rate as compared to the Japanese.

 

1). UAW has to make concessions

 

2). fudge the big bonuses that the CEOS get. Read an article that they are willing to work for a $1 what about theyir bonuses and pensions

 

3). Even if we bail them out what is the negative or positive potential that they will survive and flourish

 

4). Consumers need to be budget savvy, specially with the Depression that's coming.

 

5). It's payback time...all of these times that the CEOS, UAWs, stock brokers, Consumers have been living in the "me" world. It's not suprising the the whole system athropied

 

6). I trully think that the big 3 time has run out. It's being 21 points behind in the superbowl and they had opportunities to capitlize on yards gain and fumbles and yet they got cocky.

 

no bail out..for sure.

[comply]

Its a loose loose situation for us. If we don't bail them out we loose a tone of jobs and potentially loose more of our economy down the toilet, and if we do bail them out we eat the cost! They do make some sweet cars so don't be a dumbass and say that they dont. I am currently looking at the SRT8 Cherokee which would kick the ass of tons of sweet datsuns. Please don't waste my time with my datsun is faster, I don't care:eek:. My point is that you have a choice to buy any car. This is obviously reminding the big 3 that they need to step up and take some advice from the Japanese and foreign markets.

 

A little note, the average GM employee costs 73 bucks to employ!

 

The biggest problem I have with cars from The Big 3 is the quality. Sure you can buy a sweet (enter car name here) with a HEMI or whatever, but it's made out of plastic, has a crap motor, and has whatever corners that can be cut, cut.

 

As much as I hate Pacific Rim cars(Daewoo, Kia, Hyundai) for being poorly made and out of cheap materials, at least they sell their cars for what they're worth.

[racerx]

This is "shock and awe" at it's finest, pls....a "orderly bankcruptcy"

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081218/ap_on_bi_ge/bush_autos

 

can you say oxymoron!

[comply]

I am beginning to think that we should not bail out the big 3. They have been making money off our backs and because of bad strategic decisions, like the post before mine and my post, why should I dole out my hard earned cash or taxes for automakers who only care about short term profits. And what about the CEOs who got bonuses like $27 million eventhough they were going bankrupt. Why should we reward bad bevavior? Yes, millions of people will lose their jobs but why should I feel guilty for someones bad decision. we've had the technology to bridge the gap between the Japanese hybrids and sustainable energy. They should have invested wisely and these fools knew that the price of gas was skyrocketing. Yet, they kep on buying these big SUVs and trucks. Yes, they were selling them but they got greedy and forgot about hybrids. You see that's the problem we have in America. It's not a budget deficit or bankcruptcy, it's a lack of "solid" leadership. The 3 CEOS who went to congress begging for money had the nerve to arrive there with their private Jets and so on, when word got out they quickly said that they will fly commercial or sell their JETS...no way man, it's time for an evolution to occur, meaning the one with INTEGRITY, VISION and lack of GREED will take over. I am hoping that we learn something from this clusterfuck and eventually come out of it with better leaders and cars.

 

 

 

Good luck finding anyone in the Human Race that isn't greedy. I dare you to find me one.

[comply]

Yes, why couldn't we tax the crap out of imports like what they do to American cars. This is just the beginning. China and India are beginning to make their own cars. They are where Hyundai used to be 15 years ago. Again people are not realizing that we have lost our competitive edge maybe 15 years ago. In physics, they call it atrophy- means to waste away. Sure the big 3 makes sweet cars but now it's about being effective and efficient and in which case they are not. More important, it's about reputation. The vast majority of Americans and the world sees our cars as second rate as compared to the Japanese.

 

1). UAW has to make concessions

 

2). fudge the big bonuses that the CEOS get. Read an article that they are willing to work for a $1 what about theyir bonuses and pensions

 

3). Even if we bail them out what is the negative or positive potential that they will survive and flourish

 

4). Consumers need to be budget savvy, specially with the Depression that's coming.

 

5). It's payback time...all of these times that the CEOS, UAWs, stock brokers, Consumers have been living in the "me" world. It's not suprising the the whole system athropied

 

6). I trully think that the big 3 time has run out. It's being 21 points behind in the superbowl and they had opportunities to capitlize on yards gain and fumbles and yet they got cocky.

 

no bail out..for sure.

 

 

Depression? /facepalm

 

 

Does no one realise that the reason the economy sucks is because people are so afraid that the economy is bad that they don't spend money? And as we continue not spending money fearing recession, the economy will get worse. Self-fulfilled prophecy.

[datzenmike]

Say what you will, we still bought those big cars and trucks and that showed GM that there was a market for them. Moms wanted SUVs to drive their larva to school on paved roads. Japan makes smaller efficient cars because gas costs more there than here, simple as that. They've been doing it forever. If gas is cheap cars will be bigger. Look at the Z24 that was only sold in NA because we like big.

 

Think about it... the world (billions of years) and the people on it have been around for tens of thousands of years. Civilization for thousands more or less. And in the space of 80-100 years everything revolves around cars?????? The economy is intimately controlled and influenced by it???? How much or the worlds glass, rubber, steel, aluminum, copper and plastic goes into new car production each year????? worldwide!!!! We are no better than the former civilization on Easter Island that used up all the trees transporting huge stone carvings until they couldn't build boats to fish with, or escape. If we survive the collapse of civilization story tellers will say this about us to the young ones around the fires at night: "the Great Ones were arrogant and proud and wasted everything they had and the fall from heaven was far and hard"

 

Our economy shouldn't be based on, or severely affected by the auto industry. Look at all the raw materials, and manufacturing that goes into a product that lasts a hand full of years, pollutes and kills us. (not to mention the road/pavement/bridge infrastructure. At best we need cheap ultra efficient cars that last forever. Think the big 3 will go for that? Big companies are like a virus. It moves in and uses up all resources reproducing itself with little control and no concept of right and wrong often killing the patient.

 

If we are going to live further away from our work than we can walk, then we will need a better transportation system, maybe without cars altogether.

[ronnny]

The car companies do need some kind of a bail out to not put so many out of work. They need to make cars and trucks to meet in the middle of what people want and the economy needs. I was looking in the net about a 4x4 truck with a sfa and a small diesel that gets 20+ mpg made in india. You can not even get a solid front axle under many americian trucks anymore. The oil companies drained the money with high oil prices out of every economy and now everyone is paying the price even them. If the companies get a bail out they need to be regulated. I mean there has to have been improvements. I ddrove a 81 datsun at 28-29 mpg and a new toy or ranger gets no better 25 years later? Hard to believe. quit hiding the tech that the government is getting all this taxmoney off of gas and people will think of buying new. If i could get 50 mpg then i might let my 30 mpg payed off nissan go for it. Has to be worth having a car note +gas vs. just gas and upkeep. all them in the car business from the uaw to the ceo and workers need to take thier share of a cut to stay in business or not be in business no more. No other foreign company gives a retirement like the big three so the big three need to end this. Maybe go bankrupt and start over and tell the uaw to stay the hell out or we will close our doors again. The foreign ones keep them out so the americian companies can do the same. sorry but i have only had bad union experiences. someone that can not do my job can not represent me as well as i can myself. If i were a dumba$$ it might be different.

 

Ronny

[Jason]

I walked into a GM dealership 3 years ago looking for a replacement truck. My shopping requirements, a gasoline powered, RWD, 8 passenger van capable of towing 5000lbs and gets 20 + mpg in the city. Dude laughed at me and told me that what I had ( a 1997 GMC Savana ) was what GMC still made and got 15 mpg in the city, sometimes .... I've gone back every year since, but, now the salesman begs me to "trade up" and buy a new Savana. Screw him, if they can't build what I want and need, I'll run the old one until it dies.

 

It's their own fault that they can't manufacture what is wanted by their customer base. Believe it or not, I still can't buy a truck that fills those requirements to replace my old Van from any manufacturer in North America, domestic or import. Guess I'm too small a market for them eh?

[Icehouse]

I just don't understand why the big 3 don't make any cool cars.. I was never a car guy in high school, I worked on dirt bikes and some of my friends cars. I wasn't die hard anything until I saw my first datsun roadster, at the time I had no idea who made it, shit it could have been ford for all I knew back then :D I wanted one, I didn't care how good they ran how safe or anything..

 

To think that the big 3 can't make a cool looking car or a well designed car, or even a car that will at least run for a good deal of time. I can't even think of one american car made in the last 20 years I would drive if it was giving to me. There trucks are alright but I don't like big vehicles, to much work to drive around. I wish they made a cool 4 cylinder rear wheel drive sedan.

 

SRT4's are slow!!! :) I raced one with my SR car and wasn't impressed :D Frank beat one in kent with his turbo KA. I got stuck racing the BMW haha :D

 

To me it's kinda weird to have this argument, the newest vehicle I own is my Yamaha YSR below that is my 78 king cab. haha I don't think I will be buying anything new ever, I'll just drive my datsun's until they become "one with the earth"

[comply]

I just don't understand why the big 3 don't make any cool cars.. I was never a car guy in high school, I worked on dirt bikes and some of my friends cars. I wasn't die hard anything until I saw my first datsun roadster, at the time I had no idea who made it, shit it could have been ford for all I knew back then :D I wanted one, I didn't care how good they ran how safe or anything..

 

To think that the big 3 can't make a cool looking car or a well designed car, or even a car that will at least run for a good deal of time. I can't even think of one american car made in the last 20 years I would drive if it was giving to me. There trucks are alright but I don't like big vehicles, to much work to drive around. I wish they made a cool 4 cylinder rear wheel drive sedan.

 

SRT4's are slow!!! :) I raced one with my SR car and wasn't impressed :D Frank beat one in kent with his turbo KA. I got stuck racing the BMW haha :D

 

To me it's kinda weird to have this argument, the newest vehicle I own is my Yamaha YSR below that is my 78 king cab. haha I don't think I will be buying anything new ever, I'll just drive my datsun's until they become "one with the earth"

 

Word

[Phlebmaster]

To me it's kinda weird to have this argument, the newest vehicle I own is my Yamaha YSR below that is my 78 king cab. haha I don't think I will be buying anything new ever, I'll just drive my datsun's until they become "one with the earth"

 

I agree. :D

[racerx]

Depression? /facepalm

 

 

Does no one realise that the reason the economy sucks is because people are so afraid that the economy is bad that they don't spend money? And as we continue not spending money fearing recession, the economy will get worse. Self-fulfilled prophecy.

 

 

Economy sucks because our govt has been in denial for over a year. 1). Denial our GDP has been going for the past 2 years or so

and "W" finally admitted that he knew we were in a recession. 2nd, deregulation of financial market, yes this is good sometimes in free market style but it can bite us, like now. What about that investor who bilked investors and consumers out of $50 billion dollars and security firms getting involved in real estate. 3rd. people buying stuff and not knowing the consequences on a global scale (your payment for a house should not be more than 40% of your gross and yet there were those who was spending like 75% of their gross towards their mortgage). 4th, the war in Iraq is causing a lot of resources being depleted elsewhere - it's funny that we have aspent about 700 billion dollars there - and so far the bail out is about this much. 5th we live in a consumer society and people feel in their heart that in order for you to feel good, you have to have a boat, SUV with bling while you stretch the crap out of your credit. 6th - Hubris - CEOS, investos and Ponzi schemes, people felt they were or are untouchable or lack of global awareness. 7th - price of gas skyrocket to almost $5/gallon and SUVs were left parked in the driveway. 8th - our deficit (federal and consumer).

 

And how can people spend when, 1.2. million jobs and this is being compounded daily with major retail stores closing or cutting their staff hours.

 

This is not done yet..there's a documentary I saw awhile back and it's called "I owe you USA". this is not a liberal or left wing documentary. As a mtter of fact previous GAOs and Warren Buffet was interviewed. The movie talked about our deficit and how Social Security and Medicare will fight for their survival. Money for social security is supposed to be in a "TRUST" fund and there are less workers per retire folks, which will start depleting, I think in about 8 years or so. Plus we owe countries like China, Japan, Europe, even Mexico, Iraq, yes Iraq! The monies we owe is funding the war effort and bad investments as well as foreign investments and it's called bonds.

 

How do I know all of these stuff: I am an Employment Counselor by trade for like 20 years and I have to, as a profession, keep up with the hiring trends and the economy.

[datsunaholic]

The following is an opinion. It's based on observation.

 

Frankly the Big-3 was ill-equipped to weather the fuel-price spike. But it's not just them. Everyone's sales are way down. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc are all seeing inventory sit. It's a "perfect storm" of problems, cause by one thing: rampant speculation investment. Professional and casual investors turned the entire economy into a giant Ponzi scheme with unsustainable price growth that when one key part holding it up fell, the whole works came down.

 

The Big 3's problems came from 2 key areas: High Gas Prices weakened them beyond their already unstable situation, and the Financial crisis was the "other shoe". People couldn't get credit, and with most potential new-car buyers being in debt to their eyeballs anyway no one was paying cash. No credit, no car. No sales, big problem.

 

The financial crisis stemmed from the bursting of the housing market bubble. Speculators ran the price of housing up nearly triple in 10 years... when the prices started crashing, folks ended up upside-down on mortgages that they couldn't pay for because of increasing ARM rates (banks were at fault for offering "introductary rate" mortgages... liek a home loan was equal to a credit card!). Normally folks could get out of a foreclosure by selling quick, but with prices crashing that couldn't happen. Banks then got stuck with foreclosed houses worth less than their note and either had to hold the property or sell at a loss... with banks showing losses, their stocks plummeted and savings holders went on "bank runs" pulling deposits which caused bank failures. That's what cause the credit crunch; banks are wary to loan any money even though their "bailout" money was supposed to go straight to underwriting loans, not propping up their balance books.

 

The housing market speculation was fueled by the record-low interest rates in the early 2000s. Low interest loans drove the prices up, making houses an investment. You could "flip" a house basically by just buying something that needed a tiny bit of work and make 10-10% back in 3-6 months. It was unsustainable.

 

The low interest rates were caused by the Federal Reserve's attempt to bouy the economy in 2000-2002 when the "Dot Bomb" (dot.com bubble burst) and post 9/11. Teh dot.com bubble was the main impact though... the Fed lowered interest rates to spur economic growth. It worked, sort of, but created the housing price spike.

 

The Dot-bomb was caused by unchecked speculation. IPOs and venture capital investments had money pouring into companies with no solid business plan- just a website and a bunch of employee benefits.

 

Greed. It makes the world turn. In economic cycles. See "October 1929". We got out of the Great Depression by having a World War. Not really how I want to get out of this one.

[racerx]

Good luck finding anyone in the Human Race that isn't greedy. I dare you to find me one.

 

Dalai Lama

 

Obama - he could have been a high priced lawyer, instead he chosed to help his community and become a community organizer

 

Ghandi - another lawyer - instead he freed his people from England's tyranny -

Martin Luther King

 

Albert Einstein - he could have made millions or billions with his ideas and later on chose to become a pacifist and regretted that his formula E=mc2 helped devleoped the atom bomb.

 

Warren Buffet - he could live in a Multi billion house but he stills lives in the same house he purchase in 1958 or so and drives himself with no chauffer.

 

Bill Gates - Did he not donate large sums of his money to the needy.

 

I could list some more but the point is that greed is okay but wanton greed or Hubris is what got us into this mess and being unconscious about bad actions from the top downl!