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The big three.... assholes.

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the big 3 still make some nice cars.


They should not go away!!!!!!!


Yes they did, a few. And the north am consumer is also to blame. Yuppy mothers buying Ford Explorer SUVs to drive their kids to school on paved roads. Everyone switching to trucks from cars.


They shouldn't go away, they should be making the next generation small efficient cars. Something with looks, performance, handling and cheap. It's totally do-able if not to late.

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I don't think they should be bailed out. They should file bankruptcy and get that damn union out of there. It's not that they make bad cars, it's the unions draining them dry to where they can't compete. But they'll bail their asses out anyway to protect the unions. The shitty economy has finally hit here. I work for a bigtime car dealership in this area and found out yesterday my hours and pay have been cut in half each month. They're business has dropped off so bad. I've been out looking for something else and it just isn't out there. Of course I don't have a college degree (if that would even help right now) so people want be knocking my door down to hire me. My brother-in-law is in management at a big chemical company here and he told me that they are laying off 1000 people at the first of the year with more to come. That company is a huge part of this areas employment. I didn't vote for Obama, but if he can help this economy then hell yeah more power to him. I just don't see it happening.

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Good one rubberman,

I agree with you 100%. They should get there own ass out of the mess there in. As a small business owner I don't see anybody running to help me out, The union was s good thing 60 yrs ago, But now they just suck the life out of a company. One of my customers employees went union on him, He got so pissed he sold the company. The new owner stepped in and fired all of them and hired all new staff non union.

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They do make nice cars; unfortunately they are mostly cars that people under 50 can't afford, i.e. corvette, escalade, cadillac cts sport, (I hate ford, but you get my drift).


All the affordable cars are shit compared to imports of the same class. Anything domestically built turns to shit after it hits 70k miles these days.

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I actually worked for GM in the Oshawa car and truck plant for two years in the 70s. Union and company do NOT get along and I seriously doubt it got better over the ensuing years. No co-operation at all and it of course it filtered down to the workers like growing up in an abusive family and growing up to be abusive. I remember there was some holiday that fell on a Tues. or Wed. and GM came to the Union and suggested we work that day and take the Fri. off and have a three day weekend. The union leaders went ape shit on their asses. Outright refusing and we all worked that Fri with a one day off mid-week. Not one person I talked to could figure that one out.


Politics, that's all it is with unions and management types. Some members were rabid with hate and impossible to talk with. You had to keep your head down and try to ignore it all. I quit. Money was $7.23 / hr back then and best around but Looking at some of my older co-workers, I didn't want to end up like them and not be able to quit.


If the Big 3 go down

You better have that Chinese made AK47 ready to go.


Chinese ones... from Wall-Mart??? you on crack??? They'll blow up in your face and save the enemy the bother. Get a real one "Made With Pride In The USSR" :lol:

Edited by datzenmike
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rubberman, i also agreee with you 100%. this bailout is more of a bailout for the UAW. this is what i always thought should happen when i first heard about the bailout. the UAW invest part of thier pensions into the companies to save them. if they disagree on terms of possibly losing thier money, it just shows that they would no trust in the companies and why should the U.S. people trust them if thier employees didnt. i know it would be a longshot to get them to budge with seeing what they make compared to other car companies and businesses.

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You want to fix this mess, the first thing you do is let the employees buy the company. I guarantee that the fat cat CEO's will be the first one out the door, with the union rep a close second. It will hurt in the short term but will make a stronger company in the end. The average union line worker is costing the big three $75 an hour while average for the Japenese makers is right around $48/hr. That's over a third more for all the stoners that can't do the math.:eek: This is a direct result of UAW getting what they demanded at the table. The Japenese makers are not unionized so they are not stuck with these higher cost per hour per worker. Keep in mind that the guy on the line is not making $75 an hour, that is the cost to the company on hour for that worker. It costs me around $34 an hour to pay me lead guy $25/hr. That's for all the workman's comp, taxes, SS whatnot. The only way for me to cut that cost is for my guy to go get his own licsense or make him an officer in the company. Neither one is going to happen so who pays in the end? The customer. Let's just hope that at some point I am not forced by a union to pay for this guys retirement and medical. Anyway the point is, at $75/hr the US guys can't compete. And putting a "Car Czar" in place is one of the worst ideas that I have every heard of. What dumb ass came up with that? Look what happened when the first Bush came up with a "Drug Czar". Use of illicet drugs actually went up. Brilliant. Although so did the strength of the weed as growers were forced to move inside so maybe a czar isn't such a bad idea after all.:cool:

OK, rant mode off. Over and out.

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Yeah fellas, I'm all for people making a good wage, but I've also worked under the union with a company and it was just bullshit. When I got that job I was expecting my pay to be like $4.00 less an hour than what it was, I was like, damn you gotta be kidding. And yes it was because of the union, but even though I was benifiting from it, the pay was way higher then what it should have been. I got a taste of union working, the enviroment in the work place and how it affected the company. Of course I was eventually laid off because of cutbacks. I would have taken a pay cut in a heartbeat and gladly voted the union out to keep that job, but I could see in the diehard union people, the union wasn't going anywhere. It was like, give me more and expect less. Lazy ass greed, sums it up. Man, I could rant for days about this, sorry if anyone disagrees, but thats just my feelings. Oh yeah the UAW put out that it cost on average $74 dollars an hour for each employee, thats everything, hourly wage, pension, ins. and so on. I think I heard the competitors, honda, toy, nissan is about half that. Thats a huge difference. It's not damn rocket science why they are going under.

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The Chinese made(slave labor camp #9) AKs are actually better cause they chrome line the bore.

Mean You never have to clean it. And if it has to be cleaned. Youll be dead already before you wear it out anyways.


I blame greedy CEOs and managment making some Junky cars and the legacy costs that are hurting the Big 3.


But the facts there are alot of American cars/trucks that are cheaper than there Jap made is USA assembled equivelant so You cant blame all of it on the union wanting high wages as there is very minimal labor goin into these cars nowadays,Mostly robots.


I work for a Union shop inside Boeing and I know the Hate the Union puts out towards the Comany. But the Company reams alot of workers also, If Boeing had their way they would make the Plane in Communist China ,then fly the plane to Seattle then paint, Boeing on the side of it.

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I have an old and dear friend in Oshawa who just retired after 30 years with GM. He makes good money on retirement pay. He presumably has paid his house and X off. Paid for his daughter's wedding and is looking forward to.... comfortable retirement. If GM 'goes under' or slides what will happen to him?

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I have an old and dear friend in Oshawa who just retired after 30 years with GM. He makes good money on retirement pay. He presumably has paid his house and X off. Paid for his daughter's wedding and is looking forward to.... comfortable retirement. If GM 'goes under' or slides what will happen to him?


I don't know, it's just all such a big mess of shit. We all can talk back and forth about this and it doesn't matter, they are going to do what ever they want. We just have to hope for the best and things work out. Life is suckin pretty bad right now, especially here at Christmas.

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