Bolts Backing Out On DriveSaftShop CV Axles

[paradime]

Has anyone else had an issue with adapter plate bolts coming loose on DriveSaftShop's R180 CV axles?

 

I had this problem with bolts backing out on Troy's CV axles after 30-50 miles of driving. This was happening at the inner hub adapter, and eventually the Beta Motorsports Stub Ends were damaged. I swopped to DSS axles, and it stayed solid for about 2-3K miles, but the recently inner hub bolts stared coming loose. 

 

It should be added that the car is with my brother in OR, and he's having fun with it. Unfortunately he's not mechanical inclined, nor disciplined when in comes to maintenance requiring shop skills. Granted these are Porsche 940 CVs, but the car is making 400 BHP, and it's being driven hard. Although it's not recommended, I'm advising the use of Lock-Tite on the head flange (not the tread) of the bolts to see if that keeps them in place. 

 

Any thoughts, advice would be much appreciated.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I use red loctite on my driveshaft bolts. And this does not make them much harder to remove. If you're familiar with red loctite, then you will understand how to use it and what to expect when disassembly time comes.

 

I would try using red loctite on the threads.

[paradime]

Thanks Stoffregen. Back in my motocross days, I never had luck with red lock-tite, but I'll take your advice. Think we should replace the adapter plate and bolts just in case?

[Icehouse]

It seems all the axles come loose.  My stock axles come loose every 6 months, Troy's axle were every month and another set I had also came loose, the style that T3 stole.  Not sure there is a good way to keep them tight.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If the fit is still good, meaning the mating register is in tact, I would just make sure they are flat and keep running them. Oh, and the threads too.

 

There are special high tolerance bolts made with larger OD on the threads to have an almost interference fit, but I would be leery of trying them on a part that needs to be removed every now and then.

[paradime]

Sure there's a lot of rotational force put on a thin adapter, and that's the weak link. I know building fast cars means we're expecting lots of after market parts to do what they're designed to do, but damn what a PITA, POS design on those F'n adapters... Yes, I usually get kinda pissy by the end of the day but seriously, you'd think a $1,500 kit would ship with the solution preinstalled. SMH

 

Thanks for the advice guys.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I looked for a pic of the adapter online, and I think I found one. It doesn't look too thin. Maybe an inch thick? And they are made of steel, right? I wouldn't expect the material to be the problem. Could a through bolt be made to work? Like a bolt and nut?

 

Racers have been using 930 CVs on 510s for decades. I wonder what problems they have had. We always had vibrational issues with the stock stock half shafts in our 510 race cars, but loose bolts was never a problem. We did use red loctite.

 

I believe most of the viibration we had was from a poor fit where the stub axle fits into the carrier. Could a custom side gear and/or stub axle be made with tighter tolerances?

 

What does Troy say about it?

[paradime]

The adapter is an inch thick where it connects to the 6 bolt Porsche axle plate. But at the pict you can see it's only 3/8" where the 4 bolts connect to the R180 stub end. That's the weak link.

 

 

I called DSS yesterday and they advised using blue Lock-Tite, grade A or higher, and torquing to 54 ft lb.

 

Troy's axles were even worse. His advice was not to use Lock-tite, but re-torque after every race event. Fine if you have a lift and trailer your car I guess, but what if you're driving the car 100-150 to an event or show? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I still say use red. How often do you need to remove them? Maybe not in your lifetime. Even then, there's always a way to remove even the most stubborn loctite'd bolt.

 

The stock R180 "bolts" are actually studs, aren't they? Studs would be the best way to go, and the proper grip length would also help. Do you know what size they are? I believe 10mm. You could try converting to a Toyota 10mm driveshaft bolt or stud. They have a super fine thread (10x1.0) that really helps keep things tight.

https://absolute-wits-end.com/70-80-100-series-driveshaft-hardware-kit-front-10mm/

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

https://www.yotamasters.com/shop/driveshaft/driveshaft-hardware/

[Crashtd420]

What about race tieing them with wire? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Good point. 

[yenpit]

Clean off all grease oil.  Use red Loctite. Torque to spec.  We use a bright nail polish to mark each bolt head once in the torqued position & do a quick visual check EVERY TIME BEFORE OUR CARS GO OUT ON THE TRACK!  If we see the nail polish mark NOT LINED UP, if we have time in the paddock we pull that bolt, clean out oil/grease, Locktite, torque  & RE-mark with nail polish.  If we do not have time, we simply re-torque.  We typically have to re-do all of the bolts at least twice a season.  We re-do all of the bolts on each car before the beginning of each season.

 

We considered safety wiring (race tieing) them, but if we have a failure that requires us to remove an axle & are on short time (it happens!), the amount of time to RE-safety wire is hard to swallow.  Our system of nail polish & visual has worked well........but YES, we have a bolt or two loosen up each season.

[Crashtd420]

What about those stage 8 fasteners?

They sell sets specifically for CV axles.... I saw over a dozen choices....

https://www.stage8.com/

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I like the lock tabs, but I wouldn't use stainless bolts in that application.

 

I wonder if there is room to use a nut instead of threading directly into the adapter. A grade 8 nyloc with red loctite would lessen the chances even further.

[thisismatt]

4 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

What about those stage 8 fasteners?

They sell sets specifically for CV axles.... I saw over a dozen choices....

https://www.stage8.com/

That's pretty cool 😎

[jbirds510]

Switch to cross drilled stainless studs and run castle nuts and cotter pins? Or stud and lock nuts

 

really like thisismatts post above also. Reminds me of arlan ness’s exhaust flange fasters.

 

If I were going to use locktight like products id probably go with blue.

Edited March 10, 2022 by jbirds510

[thisismatt]

29 minutes ago, jbirds510 said:

Switch to cross drilled stainless studs and run castle nuts and cotter pins?

 

really like thisismatts post above also. Reminds me of arlan ness’s exhaust flange fasters.

 

If I were going to use locktight like products id probably go with blue.

 

It's not my post, I was just quoting it...to give credit where credit's due

[jbirds510]

8 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

 

It's not my post, I was just quoting it...to give credit where credit's due

Oops my bad haha. Its a great quote and post by crashtd420

 

im on a iphone12 mini sometimes the light blue To white is kinda hard to see with such a small screen.

Edited March 10, 2022 by jbirds510

[iceman510]

Thread revival!

 

I am having issues with the rear axle (outer mostly) bolts loosening on my race car (stock axles at this time).  I will be cleaning them up and putting on Loctite as mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

My question is this- how to torque these bolts?  These are notoriously hard to even access with open end wrenches.  Crowfoot maybe?  TJ,  how did you guys at Ignite do it?

 

[yenpit]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:56 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I use red loctite on my driveshaft bolts. And this does not make them much harder to remove. If you're familiar with red loctite, then you will understand how to use it and what to expect when disassembly time comes.

 

I would try using red loctite on the threads.

 

Agree 100%! We had terrible issues on the vintage race 240Z's, but then started using RED LocTite on the threads (both male & female must be clean!!).  Then we drew a nail polish line across the head to the base...............that way you can quickly glance under the car & see if the line has "moved/separated".  Once we started doing this, we rarely had an issue!