destruction of america

[frankendat]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:58 PM, paradime said:

Not arguing that we don't need better border security, the total number, or the tax revenue vs drain on our resources by undocs. My point is about the age old propaganda practice of fear mongering, and scapegoating immigrants for political gain. None of this changes the crime rates in TX, nor is it meaningless as you suggest. What get's in the way of seeing it happening today? The ability to recognize this stale rhetorical BS shouldn't depend on what news entertainment network being watch, but here you are again arguing non sequiturs. The Canada thing was funny though, so props for that.

You confused me on this one: It seems that you agree 1. The United States should have boarder security. 2. The United States should know the total number of immigrants in the country and the drain on resources this entails. 3. The previous information is currently unknown and propagandized higher or lower depending on political agenda.  

 

My argument did not contain non sequiturs, unless you are intentionally refusing to apply standard reasoning.

 

Fox News lists the number of undocumented immigrants crossing the boarder under the Biden open boarder policy over 10 million. The antithesis of Fox is either MSNBC or CNN or if you have another, then I am open. All of the aforementioned place the number of undocumented immigrants crossing the boarder under the Biden open boarder policy in the millions. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe over one million undocumented immigrants have crossed the border under the Biden open boarder policy.

 

It is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of individual who cross the boarder without documentation are impoverished.

 

It is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable to acknowledge that the impoverished community is responsible for a larger percentage of crime. I gave lip service and I will again, to the fact there are liberal publications that claim to "debunk" this very understandable statement. But, I have taken the time to deep dive on some (admittedly not all) and am confident that without linguistic gymnastics it is true.

 

Therefore, it is reasonable to believe of the million(s) of undocumented immigrants have crossed the border under the Biden open boarder policy a larger percentage (vs a random collection of the same number of United States citizens) will engage in criminal activity.

 

Therefore, the statement that, in the last decade, the Democrats allowed more criminals into the United States than the Republican is true. Is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable.

 

Now that has been established and answered on point. 

 

Applying inductive rather than deductive reasoning, while admittedly not as reliable, but remains a cornerstone of operation to function in everyday life. 

 

It is neither unreasonable nor non sequitur to conclude that more immigrants are committing crimes. Yet, there are those that point to police arrest records and incarceration intake form numbers to claim this conclusion is false. And it appears the matter has been refuted.

UNTIL, it is understood that a substantial reporter of these numbers (California) refuses to inquire or disclose immigration  status of those arrested or incarcerated. 

 

Finally, as sheer number of votes, matters, at least somewhat in elections, especially as close as the last elections have been. The understanding that undocumented workers are more often than not supported by governmental services (see poor above) The Democrats support open boarders and supply governmental services at no cost. Even immigrants who might be ideologically opposed to the Democratic Party platform will join if they are starving. Notice I didn't say undocumented, because under Biden documentation isn't  required and there is a full steam ahead mission to get as many immigrants in as many states as possible, voter registered.  Yes, 2020 voter fraud is old news, because the Democrats found a way to make the fraud legit, by legalizing, illegal aliens. 2024 could easily be won by the same tricks, but the tricks are now legal. 

 

SO, that the Democratic party has sold America to remain in power by allowing criminals to cross our boarders unabated and promising excessive social handouts which will cripple the economy and bring excessive taxes, is not hyperbole. I answered your fucking points and took too long to type up something that is damned obvious. I am not going to waste anymore time proofing it. You get what you get. 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

24 minutes ago, yenpit said:

 

Give us our flag back, you commie!!!!!!!!!!! 😂😆🤣 And to be fair, while yer at it, get yers back too................😎

 

Better than what Dan. called me. A Democrat.

[bottomwatcher]

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

 

This is bizarre. GOP puts up a steaming turd and then expects what? Just overlook all the turds bad qualities? The other side has a steaming turd too. Our third choice has been taken away from us. Any of the other candidates running on the rep side could have beaten the dems turd,  but no they had to become the party of Trump. Too late now, throw up an unwinnable candidate and you don't win.

[tr8er]

5 hours ago, frankendat said:

Notice I didn't say undocumented, because under Biden documentation isn't  required and there is a full steam ahead mission to get as many immigrants in as many states as possible, voter registered. 

You were doing great listing reasonable assertions with data then this?  I mean if they are citizens they should be registered. And if not why the hell would they break the law risking deportation even trying to register?  There is no evidence that significant numbers of illegal immigrants vote.  There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.  https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/noncitizen-voting-missing-millions

[datzenmike]

10 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

This is bizarre. GOP puts up a steaming turd and then expects what? Just overlook all the turds bad qualities? The other side has a steaming turd too. Our third choice has been taken away from us. Any of the other candidates running on the rep side could have beaten the dems turd,  but no they had to become the party of Trump. Too late now, throw up an unwinnable candidate and you don't win.

 

 Personality? The voting public needs to focus on character. This is the thing that predicts future bad performance, betrayal, self interest and lack of fortitude and grit.

[paradime]

16 hours ago, frankendat said:

You confused me on this one: It seems that you agree 1. The United States should have boarder security. 2. The United States should know the total number of immigrants in the country and the drain on resources this entails. 3. The previous information is currently unknown and propagandized higher or lower depending on political agenda.  

 

My argument did not contain non sequiturs, unless you are intentionally refusing to apply standard reasoning.

 

Fox News lists the number of undocumented immigrants crossing the boarder under the Biden open boarder policy over 10 million. The antithesis of Fox is either MSNBC or CNN or if you have another, then I am open. All of the aforementioned place the number of undocumented immigrants crossing the boarder under the Biden open boarder policy in the millions. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe over one million undocumented immigrants have crossed the border under the Biden open boarder policy.

 

It is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of individual who cross the boarder without documentation are impoverished.

 

It is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable to acknowledge that the impoverished community is responsible for a larger percentage of crime. I gave lip service and I will again, to the fact there are liberal publications that claim to "debunk" this very understandable statement. But, I have taken the time to deep dive on some (admittedly not all) and am confident that without linguistic gymnastics it is true.

 

Therefore, it is reasonable to believe of the million(s) of undocumented immigrants have crossed the border under the Biden open boarder policy a larger percentage (vs a random collection of the same number of United States citizens) will engage in criminal activity.

 

Therefore, the statement that, in the last decade, the Democrats allowed more criminals into the United States than the Republican is true. Is neither non sequitur nor unreasonable.

 

Now that has been established and answered on point. 

 

Applying inductive rather than deductive reasoning, while admittedly not as reliable, but remains a cornerstone of operation to function in everyday life. 

 

It is neither unreasonable nor non sequitur to conclude that more immigrants are committing crimes. Yet, there are those that point to police arrest records and incarceration intake form numbers to claim this conclusion is false. And it appears the matter has been refuted.

UNTIL, it is understood that a substantial reporter of these numbers (California) refuses to inquire or disclose immigration  status of those arrested or incarcerated. 

 

Finally, as sheer number of votes, matters, at least somewhat in elections, especially as close as the last elections have been. The understanding that undocumented workers are more often than not supported by governmental services (see poor above) The Democrats support open boarders and supply governmental services at no cost. Even immigrants who might be ideologically opposed to the Democratic Party platform will join if they are starving. Notice I didn't say undocumented, because under Biden documentation isn't  required and there is a full steam ahead mission to get as many immigrants in as many states as possible, voter registered.  Yes, 2020 voter fraud is old news, because the Democrats found a way to make the fraud legit, by legalizing, illegal aliens. 2024 could easily be won by the same tricks, but the tricks are now legal. 

 

SO, that the Democratic party has sold America to remain in power by allowing criminals to cross our boarders unabated and promising excessive social handouts which will cripple the economy and bring excessive taxes, is not hyperbole. I answered your fucking points and took too long to type up something that is damned obvious. I am not going to waste anymore time proofing it. You get what you get. 

 

 

 

 

My point about Roy's click bait tirade was: "Fear mongering, and using immigrants as a scapegoat is the same tired schtick from Tammany Hall politicians to today. This bean sack rattles off highly publicized incidents as if undocumented Immigrants commit more crimes that American citizens. Fact is, in Texas, it's less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens. But in politics, shamelessness has no limits. No immigration reform, more funding for boarder petrol? All blame and no game on both sides. Demonizing immigrants is the world's worst joke, but it still works on weak minded voters."

 

Maybe I was confused by you describing the problem with a non sequitur dodge of my point. Instead of following the point presented here, you launched into denying Texas state's own crime statistics, a WAG at the number of undocs under Biden's "open door policy" (catch phrase of your news entertainment), their drain on our public services, and some unrelated point about rates of crime between poor vs rich. A description of the problem, but totally off topic to the point I made. Now, does this fit my adjective?

 

non se·qui·tur

/ˌnän ˈsekwədər/

noun

a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. For an example, see your arguments above.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:21 PM by paradime

[datzenmike]

Dan:

 

Geezus. It's absolutely impossible for me to be a Democrat and I answered your questions and you even said I did in your last post. I don't have to explain anything to you on demand so stop bitching about how things are and move on and get your opinions and comments posted. Unlike you, I haven't once called you names so lose that and your bad attitude too. You want to post here, grow up.

 

The thing with opinions is that they are a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge. So they are true to the person that has them and not 'wrong.' Therefore I don't care about posting differing opinions. Without them Destruction probably wouldn't exist. There would be only agreement and little to argue about.

 

I accept that there are few factual things about the government other than in broad terms. A lot of 'facts' are just opinions.

[paradime]

I have a question about elder abuse. 

 

It really shouldn't be this hard, but it's another life or death battle again trying to take off a pare of jeans.

 Should a restraining order be filed, or break up with the 501s and start dating sweat pants? Asking for a friend.

[datzenmike]

Don't remember the last time I wore jeans but my sperm count just went way up..

[frankendat]

11 hours ago, tr8er said:

You were doing great listing reasonable assertions with data then this?  I mean if they are citizens they should be registered. And if not why the hell would they break the law risking deportation even trying to register?  There is no evidence that significant numbers of illegal immigrants vote.  There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.  https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/noncitizen-voting-missing-millions

THAT IS THE POINT! The Democratic party has pulled the slick move. Biden opened the boarders, so there were not any "illegal" immigrants. Like I said many posts back. I can't think or even imagine a method of disallowing newly minted citizens to vote. WHICH IS WHY, there is a massive campaign to "document" previously "undocumented" immigrants. Remember, even using the liberal estimates that is more than a million. NOW re read that last post and understand how hard the Democrats are trying to fuck America. And you're bitching about ID's.....

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

 

My point about Roy's click bait tirade was: "Fear mongering, and using immigrants as a scapegoat is the same tired schtick from Tammany Hall politicians to today. This bean sack rattles off highly publicized incidents as if undocumented Immigrants commit more crimes that American citizens. Fact is, in Texas, it's less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens. But in politics, shamelessness has no limits. No immigration reform, more funding for boarder petrol? All blame and no game on both sides. Demonizing immigrants is the world's worst joke, but it still works on weak minded voters."

 

Maybe I was confused by you describing the problem with a non sequitur dodge of my point. Instead of following the point presented here, you launched into denying Texas state's own crime statistics, a WAG at the number of undocs under Biden's "open door policy" (catch phrase of your news entertainment), their drain on our public services, and some unrelated point about rates of crime between poor vs rich. A description of the problem, but totally off topic to the point I made. Now, does this fit my adjective?

 

non se·qui·tur

/ˌnän ˈsekwədər/

noun

a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. For an example, see your arguments above.

 

 

I will try to remember that you require each premise and conclusion labeled. Is there a way to draw arrows in a post? How about something simple to start: Go outside and dig a hole, with your hands or a shovel, it need not be excessive. Feel around in the hole in the ground. Now stand up and feel below you middle back and down, if you reach the back of your knees you have gone to far. Compare and contrast the two items. Once that is understood, we can increase the complexity of your understanding. 

[paradime]

24 minutes ago, frankendat said:

I will try to remember that you require each premise and conclusion labeled. Is there a way to draw arrows in a post? How about something simple to start: Go outside and dig a hole, with your hands or a shovel, it need not be excessive. Feel around in the hole in the ground. Now stand up and feel below you middle back and down, if you reach the back of your knees you have gone to far. Compare and contrast the two items. Once that is understood, we can increase the complexity of your understanding. 

Right, and I'll try to help you remember that you ignored the premise and gave the unrelated conclusions I listed. How about something simple to start, like responding to the original premise in the point I made about political demagoguery. Then we can increase your understanding on the complexities of this old BS propaganda still being used today, and how it works on weak minded voters, on both sides. Or you can continue to ignore it and dig yourself into a deeper hole.

 

/ˌnän ˈsekwədər/

noun

 

1. a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

   "his weird mixed metaphors and non sequiturs"

non se·qui·tur

/ˌnän ˈsekwədər/

noun

 

1. a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

   "his weird mixed metaphors and non sequiturs"

[datzenmike]

[paradime]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Dan:

 

Geezus. It's absolutely impossible for me to be a Democrat and I answered your questions and you even said I did in your last post. I don't have to explain anything to you on demand so stop bitching about how things are and move on and get your opinions and comments posted. Unlike you, I haven't once called you names so lose that and your bad attitude too. You want to post here, grow up.

 

The thing with opinions is that they are a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge. So they are true to the person that has them and not 'wrong.' Therefore I don't care about posting differing opinions. Without them Destruction probably wouldn't exist. There would be only agreement and little to argue about.

 

I accept that there are few factual things about the government other than in broad terms. A lot of 'facts' are just opinions.

 

I believe 'facts are like hemorrhoids, right or wrong, eventually most assholes get one.  

[john510]

On 9/19/2024 at 2:19 PM, paradime said:

 

I stumbled on to this thinking it might be something important, and couldn't have been more wrong. 

 

It's absolutely repugnant how Chip defiles the memory of people who died or were injured on 9/11 to serve his ignorant propaganda. He chastises politicians who do nothing to secure our country, when he didn't disclose to his constituents that he voted against the congressional bipartisan boarder security bill, as ordered. Fear mongering, and using immigrants as a scapegoat is the same tired schtick from Tammany Hall politicians to today. This bean sack rattles off highly publicized incidents as if undocumented Immigrants commit more crimes that American citizens. Fact is, in Texas, it's less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens. But in politics, shamelessness has no limits. No immigration reform, more funding for boarder petrol? All blame and no game on both sides. Demonizing immigrants is the world's worst joke, but it still works on weak minded voters.

 

There you go Frankendat, something we can disagree on for end of time Revelations sake.

That border bill was hardly bipartisan or wouldn't it have passed ? It wasn't even a bill about the border. Roughly 20% of the funding was to be directed to the border and it wasn't to secure it, it was to streamline processing to bring illegals in faster. At 5,000 a day for a limit before they shut the "legal" entry down. Why bother wasting the money ? You think more agents were going to be there to help watch the wall they won't build ? Take a look at where all that "border bill" money was really going and ask why it was even called that. As far as illegals committing crimes and whatever numbers you like to believe I believe if that illegals weren't here they wouldn't have committed the crime. That's as simple as it gets. 

[john510]

Too much crap to respond to after being on vacation for a few days. One thing I'm still thoroughly convinced of is liberalism is a mental defect that's for sure. Hell even having the TDS is causing this country serious issues.  The human race would have perished a long time ago if it weren't for the non liberal types there are left.

[tr8er]

39 minutes ago, john510 said:

That border bill was hardly bipartisan or wouldn't it have passed ? It wasn't even a bill about the border. Roughly 20% of the funding was to be directed to the border and it wasn't to secure it, it was to streamline processing to bring illegals in faster. At 5,000 a day for a limit before they shut the "legal" entry down. Why bother wasting the money ? You think more agents were going to be there to help watch the wall they won't build ? Take a look at where all that "border bill" money was really going and ask why it was even called that. As far as illegals committing crimes and whatever numbers you like to believe I believe if that illegals weren't here they wouldn't have committed the crime. That's as simple as it gets. 

The border bill was poisoned with Ukraine money.  And it was done so to win politically regardless of the bills passage.  I wanted both, but tying them together is always the issue.  They should eliminate riders. 

[paradime]

2 minutes ago, john510 said:

That border bill was hardly bipartisan or wouldn't it have passed ? It wasn't even a bill about the border. Roughly 20% of the funding was to be directed to the border and it wasn't to secure it, it was to streamline processing to bring illegals in faster. At 5,000 a day for a limit before they shut the "legal" entry down. Why bother wasting the money ? You think more agents were going to be there to help watch the wall they won't build ? Take a look at where all that "border bill" money was really going and ask why it was even called that. As far as illegals committing crimes and whatever numbers you like to believe I believe if that illegals weren't here they wouldn't have committed the crime. That's as simple as it gets. 

Good to see you back John.

 

Not sure where your getting this information, but it was bipartisan until Trump's call to tank it. I read the bill and it was only a 7% increases in the budget. You may not like how it's spent, or the policies of this admin, but no money in this bill was diverted away from the border or immigration control.

 

H.R.2 - Secure the Border Act requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to resume activities to construct a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border; 

provides statutory authorization for Operation Stonegarden, which provides grants to law enforcement agencies for certain border security operations;

prohibits DHS from processing the entry of non-U.S. nationals (aliens under federal law) arriving between ports of entry;

limits asylum eligibility to non-U.S. nationals who arrive in the United States at a port of entry;

authorizes the removal of a non-U.S. national to a country other than that individual's country of nationality or last lawful habitual residence, whereas currently this type of removal may only be to a country that has an agreement with the United States for such removal;

expands the types of crimes that may make an individual ineligible for asylum, such as a conviction for driving while intoxicated causing another person's serious bodily injury or death; 

authorizes DHS to suspend the introduction of certain non-U.S. nationals at an international border if DHS determines that the suspension is necessary to achieve operational control of that border;

prohibits states from imposing licensing requirements on immigration detention facilities used to detain minors;

authorizes immigration officers to permit an unaccompanied alien child to withdraw their application for admission into the United States even if the child is unable to make an independent decision to withdraw the application;

imposes additional penalties for overstaying a visa; and

requires DHS to create an electronic employment eligibility confirmation system modeled after the E-Verify system and requires all employers to use the system.

 

How is this something any Republican wouldn't want had it not been for Trump's kibosh?

[paradime]

If you're not able to laugh at politics, you're taking their shit show too seriously. Why get bent on it when they're all working for the same boss, so vote in Nov anyway, and get on with doing what you enjoy, because life is too valuable to waist. 

 

 

[john510]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

Good to see you back John.

 

Not sure where your getting this information, but it was bipartisan until Trump's call to tank it. I read the bill and it was only a 7% increases in the budget. You may not like how it's spent, or the policies of this admin, but no money in this bill was diverted away from the border or immigration control.

 

H.R.2 - Secure the Border Act requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to resume activities to construct a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border; 

provides statutory authorization for Operation Stonegarden, which provides grants to law enforcement agencies for certain border security operations;

prohibits DHS from processing the entry of non-U.S. nationals (aliens under federal law) arriving between ports of entry;

limits asylum eligibility to non-U.S. nationals who arrive in the United States at a port of entry;

authorizes the removal of a non-U.S. national to a country other than that individual's country of nationality or last lawful habitual residence, whereas currently this type of removal may only be to a country that has an agreement with the United States for such removal;

expands the types of crimes that may make an individual ineligible for asylum, such as a conviction for driving while intoxicated causing another person's serious bodily injury or death; 

authorizes DHS to suspend the introduction of certain non-U.S. nationals at an international border if DHS determines that the suspension is necessary to achieve operational control of that border;

prohibits states from imposing licensing requirements on immigration detention facilities used to detain minors;

authorizes immigration officers to permit an unaccompanied alien child to withdraw their application for admission into the United States even if the child is unable to make an independent decision to withdraw the application;

imposes additional penalties for overstaying a visa; and

requires DHS to create an electronic employment eligibility confirmation system modeled after the E-Verify system and requires all employers to use the system.

 

How is this something any Republican wouldn't want had it not been for Trump's kibosh?

Maybe Trump just pointed out to the Republicans that they were about to get duped AGAIN by the Democrats. Why he had to do it is beyond me. A "border bill" where 80% of the money is spent elsewhere ? I'd probably be ok with it (not that it matters) if that 20% was spent on an actual wall/fence or deterrents to stop the invasion. But it wasn't so.....  I'd prefer to see a shutdown because at this point there's nothing to lose.

[difrangia]

How bout y'all turnin' off the spell-chek; maybe it's just me but I'm more tolerant of mis-spelled words than some of the shit that pin-head geek software supplants into some of these communications.

 

Asking for myself.

[datzenmike]

Spell check? Isn't that done by your own computer at your end???

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[bottomwatcher]

So just putting this out there. As a 53 year old redneck I am all good with the border being sealed with razor wire and landmines. That being said I am honest with everyday reality. I am in south Florida and have unfortunately spent a lot of time in the hospital with a dying relative. Most of the doctors speak with a Latin accent and the nurses creole(Hatien). They have been AWSOME. The Hatien nurses are absolute sweethearts and smile while literally cleaning up shit and work a 12 hour shift.  Love thier job and living in the US and do it to send money back home to help thier parents. The Hispanic doctors are not the ones sneaking over the border but are the children of those that did. Believe me I don't want to see the US over run with immigrants, we can't afford it. They will fill and displace the Americans that are unwilling to bust ass for a living. Just my 2 cents.

 

[paradime]

2 hours ago, john510 said:

Maybe Trump just pointed out to the Republicans that they were about to get duped AGAIN by the Democrats. Why he had to do it is beyond me. A "border bill" where 80% of the money is spent elsewhere ? I'd probably be ok with it (not that it matters) if that 20% was spent on an actual wall/fence or deterrents to stop the invasion. But it wasn't so.....  I'd prefer to see a shutdown because at this point there's nothing to lose.

 

"Maybe" and "beyond me" sounds pretty vague and far from convincing. Could it be he harpooned it to keep border security as his political position? After making it the cornerstone of his attacks on Biden, would it make him look weak if it passed with bipartisan support? That's a rhetorical question; we both know it would. I posted what was in the bill and asked what was wrong with it, so what's the source of the claim 80% would go elsewhere, Tucker maybe?

 

There's nothing to lose if Trump's republicans shut down the government before the election? I'm sure his sycophants think that, but any intelligent Rep campaign strategist will tell you it would blow up in their face, and push center undecided voters into the democrat's hands in every swing state. Mike Johnson sees the blue wave coming if this budget shit show continues, and knows Trump's talent for self-destruction will do nothing to avoid it. Said in a letter Johnson wrote to his Republican colleagues. “As history has taught and current polling affirms, shutting the government down less than 40 days from a fateful election would be an act of political malpractice.” You may not see it this way, but with those words he's earned my respect.