Nana Spec 69' 510

[slowlearner]

Finally got this mocked up this morning after several weeks of stealing an hour here and there. The tubes replace the SUs. Just need to do some welding.

[slowlearner]

Got some second rate welding done today and the spacers are finished. Now if I can just find a welder...

 

 

[slowlearner]

I've been at this job for the last 2 weeks and what a pain... I bought the hydro handbrake last year but not the lines that were available with the kit. I should have sprung for the lines I now know. So I've been slogging it out trying to get the brake lines in and it's taken me three goes to the get the fittings and ends right. I had it all in yesterday and realized I had it hooked up the wrong way around. So back to the brake shop again today. Thankfully, the local brake shop was just awesome. Never angry or sick of me. Just patient and helpful. I gave him a 6 pack today to say thankyou. 🙂

 

So now it's finished and just as well. Motorkhana on Saturday!

 

 

[slowlearner]

Had a good day out today at my club motorkhana...

 

CACA motorkhana at SMC 15.5.21 - YouTube

 

Whilst having a good time, I realized that I am still not used to driving the car in anger, let alone on top of how to get it to go faster. I was hoping to get it to drift more easily but really failed. The hydro handbrake did help a lot, but I wasn't really on top of when to use that either. At the end of the video, you'll see me "testing the diff" in the distance. Basically, I wanted to see whether the car was up to doing proper donuts or not. The good news is it is. I'm just not succeeding at the moment. I was also pretty tired and making lots of silly mistakes today, so that didn't help. I guess I've had 2 decades of driving aircooled VWs in khanas and the front engine/rear drive datto is a big change from that. I had my tyres setup with 26/40 PSI front to rear but that wasn't enough. The front wheels were washing out while the 2 way LSD just gripped harder. I'm starting to think that some sway bars might be needed to help me a little.

 

I'd be keen to hear people's thoughts on this. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by slowlearner

[slowlearner]

More adventures today.

 

1. I'm still trying to sort out the rear brake circuit with the hydraulic handbrake in it. Somehow, the handle is pressurized when I push the pedal.

 

2. The float in the front SU carb sustained a leak and I had fuel pouring out of the breather. Stew Wilkins set me straight, but now the car has a hesitation. Thoughts on this?

[slowlearner]

After procrastinating for months, I've finally done it. Ie. drilled big holes in a perfectly good manifold. Of course, I wasn't confident to get it all right just by eye, so I made up a jig from angle iron. It holds the injector mounts in position with M10 bolts. The plan is to epoxy them in with JB weld. I'll probably do the two outer ones first, then the two inner. I still will need to trim them back afterwards. I have some gaps around the injector bungs, but I figure the JB weld should fill them up well enough. I just want to experiment with it one before I actually glue them in place.

 

 

[Lockleaf]

Noice!  How much angle you put on those bungs?

[Lockleaf]

Noice!  How much angle you put on those bungs?

[slowlearner]

7 hours ago, Lockleaf said:

Noice!  How much angle you put on those bungs?

 

I'd say about 45deg. I know it won't be as good as a factory port injected setup, but it's about the same as most of aftermarket weber TBs on offer.

[Lockleaf]

My question was for curiosity not judgment of what you chose.  I'm very much in support of what you are doing here. 

 

Have you considered brazing as opposed to jb weld?  

[slowlearner]

5 hours ago, Lockleaf said:

My question was for curiosity not judgment of what you chose.  I'm very much in support of what you are doing here. 

 

Have you considered brazing as opposed to jb weld?  

 

I hadn't, because I don't have the equipment. TBH, I think I'll need the JB to seal up the gaps properly.

[slowlearner]

Well, I finally have an inlet manifold with injector bungs. I used JB weld to stick them in and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. One issue I did have was getting the epoxy to cure properly in cold weather atm. In the end, I had to resort to putting on our wood stove to get the temp up. Having done that, the epoxy cured really well.

 

 

[slowlearner]

Having got that done, I needed to trim the excess off the injector bosses. I fiddled around with the dremel for a bit and then got out the big guns. Ie. my wood router. There were a few little mistakes with it nicking the manifold, but it's kinda hard to see down the ports with the router in the way. In the end, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. I've blended the mounts as much as I cared and then wire-brushed with the dremel. Should be good.

[Lockleaf]

Maybe you mentioned it before and I just missed it, but what are your plans for throttle body etc.?  I'm assuming you are planning ITBs?

[slowlearner]

I have ITBs, but they're horrible for a. Street driving, b. Tuning and c. Adding boost. My current plan is to clamp a silicon hose on the front of the airbox and a large TB in front of that. I've got a Buick v6 TB but I may use something smaller.

[slowlearner]

Been a long, but ultimately productive day, although not quite as I'd imagined. My daughter went into hospital for a big test today (which went really well) and I was left to my own devices. It's been the coldest day in Sydney in recorded history here (cold for Australia) so it took me a bit to get going, but ended up at Barry's place using his drill press (because mine is beyond awful). 

 

 

I probably spent two hours measuring and marking up the fuel rail before I actually got there. I was determined to get it right. Of course the drills wandered anyway. As it happened, we were short of a 13.5mm drill for the injectors. The largest we had was 1/2".

 

 

And then my boys were harassing me to pick them up. Something about it being cold and wet coz it was raining, -15degF and the school forces them to wear shorts. 😄 Seriously, the school makes them wear shorts. 😨 I didn't, but I did let them into the house... having found out that they had keys anyway! 

 

Barry suggested I check out the local tool shop and what a find that was. They had all manner of stuff and sold me a drill bit about half the price the big hardware chain does. They also helped me to find what size tap I needed for the ends of the fuel rail AND gave me a free 3/8 BCP taper plug to try out. 

 

I was ready to drill the rest of the holes when I was told I was on dinner duties. Then my 12yo son told me some creep pulled up next him invited him into his car on the way to the bus stop this morning. I was horrified and called the cops. They've been up to interview him. I'll be calling the school tomorrow and the cops will be sniffing around to try and find this guy.

 

 

So, after all that, I managed to get back into the garage and have another go. I made a guide plate for the drill bit so it could wander. I meant to put it in the drill press, but that wasn't gonna work for various reasons. I ended up using my cordless drill. Sure, it's not great, but the holes will still be super tight on the o-rings, so it should be find. I've also tapped the ends of the rail for 3/8" NPT too. I'm feeling excited, but I still need to make up some retaining brackets.

P.s. I'm gonna keep the offcut for another EFI idea. 😉 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by slowlearner

[Draker]

Wtf -15f? Was everything just ice? Is ice a thing down there?

[slowlearner]

6 hours ago, Draker said:

Wtf -15f? Was everything just ice? Is ice a thing down there?

 

Whoops, 5degC. Whatever that is. 

[slowlearner]

Public holiday Monday today. We had visitors round for lunch, but I had the whole morning and night to myself. Which is a rare treat. I spent the whole time working on the inlet manifold/fuel rail again and got a heap done. The first job was making the rear mount for the rail. It's made of steel angle and ties into the throttle linkage mount on the manifold. I tapped 2 bolts under the bottom of the rail, so if I need longer injectors I can easily space it out with washers or whatever.

 

 

 

Of course, in the process, I sprayed sparks into a plastic garbage bin with brake cleaner and INOX in it and the rotten thing caught on fire. But no one was harmed and the garage didn't burn down so I guess it was all fun. I also had the idea of drilling in between the ports to get some M6 studs in to mount the rail off.

 

 

This also worked out really well. I discovered my injectors are at an angle of about 60degs. I wanted 45, but 60 is a LOT better than 90. These tapped holes will have lengths of M6 threaded rod thread-locked into them. I was all set to use two nuts to have the height right, then I found this in my (now much smaller) metal hoard...

 

 

Which is really cool. So that means I can make proper spacer tubes. 🙂 

 

I then made some tabs that mount the front of the fuel rail and tapped them for M6 bolts. All looks tidy so I just need some M6 threaded rod and I'm finished the inlet manifold and injector rail!

 

 

...werl, almost.

 

Turns out one of the injector holes in the rail is a bit rough or not properly countersunk/radiused. So I minced a few O-rings trying to shove the injectors in. I'll need to sort that out and paint a few parts. I'm thinking of painting everything black actually. Fuel rail included. I'd rather people don't know what they're looking at.

[slowlearner]

I managed to pick up all the things I needed today at the local shops. I'm finally sorting out where all the local suppliers are. Suffice to say we have a great metal supplies shop and a great tool shop in town, which is really nice for future projects. 🙂 The tool shop guys already have me pegged as "the datsun 1600 guy". 😄

 

I thought it was worth outlining what I've spent in this part of the conversion... it's never as cheap as it seems, but I think it's not too bad.

 

manifold and airbox - $150

Injector rail - $24

Injector bungs - $40

JB Weld - $40

13.5mm drill - $22

Threaded rod - $6.50

O-rings - $8

Spacer tubes - $30
holesaw - $20
Brass fittings - $20

TOTAL = $360.50

 

Everything I had lying around from other projects. I guess, if I was lucky I could buy an L18E manifold for around that, but I'm pretty sure it would need re-working and end up costing more. That said, I still need to make up a throttle body setup so I'm far from done. I'd like to think the EFI conversion is going to be $400 all up, but I know it will be more. Still, just getting the SUs properly tuned cost $1k, so this has to be worth it.

[slowlearner]

Been in the shed mucking around with crank trigger yesterday and today...

 

 

After 'hot gluing' it together I had this. Yes, Stevie Wonder might have done a better job welding it, but it works. I filled it up with a speed holes, coz race car!

 

 

In the car it measures about 2mm from the trigger wheel. I have some adjustment to get it closer if needs be.

 

 

What you didn't witness was hours of lying under and bending over the front of the datto with almost zero hand room trying to wiggle things around from awkward angles. Why did Datsun put the motor so close to the radiator?!

 

Anyhow, it's all sitting on the hook waiting for a coat of paint and a few other bits made up.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by slowlearner

[slowlearner]

I'm starting to put together my wiring info. I'm planning to have everything sorted so creating a wiring loom should be straight forward... course I could still be procrastinating. I still need to find the crank sensor pinouts, but I'm close to done.

 

[slowlearner]

Been a nice day off today doing various things... messing around with firewood, taking my wife for her second COVID needle, picking up parts and going for mexican food. We came across this old beauty just across the parking lot. My 15yo son pointed it out as soon as we pulled in. Original Mazda Cosmo with a 10a Rotary.

 

 

The Mexican food was pretty good too. At home I was fiddling with a few things. Here's the fuel tank that was given me for free by a guy from Canberra clearing out 510 parts. It's from an old rally car and has a perfect collection tank for EFI. The collection pot hangs down into the spare tyre well, but also allows you to fit the spare in.

 

 

I've got a 3/16 and a 5/8 output. Both are copper pipe brazed in. I'm not sure if I'll keep them or not. I probably will. It's not like they're high pressure. I'll be using the stock return for the EFI return to get the hot fuel to mix around as much as possible.

 

Tonight, after collecting a few other parts, I hooked up the my laptop to the Microsquirt ECU.

 

 

I've been reading lots of the manual, but I wanted to get the basics installed in the software before I went any further. Man, I gotta say, Microsquirt ECUs are so easy to use. I mean, sure, I guess I've had experience before, but it wasn't that hard to get it going. Hook up the power. Plug in the USB cable. Start tuner-studio and off we go. I could easily set it up. I'm excited about getting the rest of the bits ready and installed ready to do some data-logging and then tuning.

 

So yeah, super happy! 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

they want alot of money for those Rotary cars esp that one.

 

vintage performance sells these or used to sell these SU replacements. I think this would be a better way to save the SU intakes and be a popular mod in Austraila

 

I heard mixed revies from these guys but think one could figure it out them selves using these common carbs , as they do have a accell pump in them unlike the orginal SU

newSUreplacement.bmp

 

maybe somebody does these already Down Under esp for Datsun Z cars and Britsh cars

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html

 

on 510

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html

Edited June 24, 2021 by banzai510(hainz)

[slowlearner]

14 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

they want alot of money for those Rotary cars esp that one.

 

vintage performance sells these or used to sell these SU replacements. I think this would be a better way to save the SU intakes and be a popular mod in Austraila

 

I heard mixed revies from these guys but think one could figure it out them selves using these common carbs , as they do have a accell pump in them unlike the orginal SU

newSUreplacement.bmp 2.25 MB · 1 download

 

maybe somebody does these already Down Under esp for Datsun Z cars and Britsh cars

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html

 

on 510

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html

 

Yeah, every rotary except the rlx8 is worth silly money now. Most of them were horrible cars too, just the engine was a redeeming point. 

 

Re those carbs...

 

It's been my plan since day 1 of owning the car to convert it to efi. As a carb, the SUs actually work quite well. However, the linkages really let them down and they're all 50 years old now. I had a float fill up with fuel just the other day. 

 

Beyond that, they suffer from the same mediocrity that all carbs do... ie. A lack of really fine tune ability across the whole rev/load range. I know old guys will disagree but I've owned an old engine converted to efi. The benefits go beyond just outright power. And there are plenty of SU setups around on marketplace. I don't feel bad about converting a manifold. If someone wanted to use it for carbs again they still could.