Coolant filters

[Draker]

I like the idea. Not required, but seems helpful.

[Gradyfest]

I don't see where anyone is saying it won't work. They do in fact work very well. Your missing the point of people that have been working on Datsuns since you were probably still shiting your pants..........kid. YOU DON'T NEED ON, IF one were to actually clean the system the way Mike or Daniel mentioned, you wouldn't have the extra item to maintane or the added weight on your front end. Every ounce adds to another pound!

 

You are correct that no flush can do what a filter can. One is the act of cleaning and other is the act of keeping it clean.

 

So everyone admits there is NO BETTER WAY to keep a coolant system clean. Finally.

 

Admitting that means you have to admit there is NO BETTER WAY to prolong and add life to not only the water pump, but EVERY part of the cooling system. Admitting one, is admitting the other.

 

You don't NEED it like you don't NEED to change your oil every 3500 miles, tranny fluid every 30K, rear dif every 100K, etc. and whatever on the miles recommendations.

 

But it's undoubtably preventive maintenance in the modern times, that's exact why new stuff comes with it.

 

New or not, cooling systems are pretty much the same but now they come with coolant filters? Think abut it...

 

Times change... Old man. Just like technology's and humans understanding of stuff, coolant and the importance of filtering it in this case.

 

Go call one of the big dealerships that sends out rigs with coolant filters from the factory and give them your argument friend. I'd love to here all about it.

 

All I'm doing is repeating known information and trying to help members hater.

[Gradyfest]

Everyone who doesn't see a need for one, fine. Quit posting and following the thread then please.

 

But those who see the benefit of having one I will post photos of how I hook them up tomorrow to help.

 

I am also getting close to replacing the first one on the F250 6.9 International Harvester diesel and should have cut open pictures of it posted this week. :D

[Gradyfest]

Just like those toilet paper filters. They are used in by pass mode along side the regular filter. .

The only time I run a bypass filter to an already filtered system is if it has no magnet to catch all the ferrous metals. Then I run a filter like Magnefine.

[bananahamuck]

Aren't the OTR trucks something like 400-500 horsepower motors that haul tens of thousands of pounds every time they go anywhere???  And the service schedule is still something like 25,000 miles-500 hours  ,, it seems a bit overkill for something that is about 100 horsepower hauling basically itself .

   Another thing ,, aren't the semi-truck engines set-up to run these from the factory,, thus making them more efficient than anything you could just "add on" ??

 

Take those as questions not arguments.

[Gradyfest]

Aren't the OTR trucks something like 400-500 horsepower motors that haul tens of thousands of pounds every time they go anywhere???  And the service schedule is still something like 25,000 miles-500 hours  ,, it seems a bit overkill for something that is about 100 horsepower hauling basically itself .

   Another thing ,, aren't the semi-truck engines set-up to run these from the factory,, thus making them more efficient than anything you could just "add on" ??

 

Take those as questions not arguments.

All true brother, but I started this thread with no specific on installing in a Datsun and it's in "General Discussions."

 

That aside though, I stand behind saying ALL coolant systems in ANY vehicle benefit from filtering the coolant.

 

Hands down and I'll bet the bank.

[Rjawm]

It's an opinion on something mostly not needed for the reasons started. To each their own. 

 

 

Why would your 'full size diesel' need this? Because re-built or just because chev?

 

Try reverse flushing the cores for RTV and use distilled rad water.

 

Catch cans are only needed to pass tech on a race track. If you need to catch oil on the street you need a rebuild.

 

 

Because I actually use my diesel for towing a 40 foot gooseneck trailer with up to 21,000 gross loads on the truck.  It seems that if I use my truck in a similar manner as an OTR hauler it'd be best to treat it as one when it comes to maintenance.

 

I tried just about everything before breaking down and pulling the cores, including backflushing.  In the end if I had been able to catch the debris before it wedged itself into the core fins I could have saved myself a lot of time and effort with an easier addition in the engine bay as opposed to the r/r of a heater core.

 

Or if running higher than stock boost, average boost on an N/A converted, or even just high compression on the street in above average temperatures.

 

 

Regardless, I'll give you the fact that you summed it up the best with "To each their own."

[DaBlist]

I had chunks of rusty scale come out of my block that I want to keep out of the radiator so it's a no brainer for me.

 

The oil looked good so not running an oil filter though

[DaBlist]

 

Goes in top hose. Flow pushes debris to the outside edges to keep screen open. If nothing shows after a couple of cleanings then maybe leave it out.

[chandlerGTi]

Something else in OTR trucks is the use of wet liners. If you look at how cavitation happens and what speeds up the deterioration of the liner you would be happy to use one ON THAT STYLE of engine. On a non liner block all you are picking up is little bits of left over crap that would be pushed out with a flush.

 

Edit: not all diesels use wet liners; Cat, Detroit, Mack, large Mercedes, volvo, some international, and Large Cummins and some fords do.

[Gradyfest]

Something else in OTR trucks is the use of wet liners. If you look at how cavitation happens and what speeds up the deterioration of the liner you would be happy to use one ON THAT STYLE of engine. On a non liner block all you are picking up is little bits of left over crap that would be pushed out with a flush.

Edit: not all diesels use wet liners; Cat, Detroit, Mack, large Mercedes, volvo, some international, and Large Cummins and some fords do.

Unless the coolant filter is pre charged with SCA in it, it won't help with cavitation.

 

Diesels now come with extended life coolant that has the SCAs to fight cavitation in the coolant from the factory.

 

And they still have coolant filters (non pre charged.)

 

What I'm trying to say is a coolant filter isn't made for fighting cavitation in vehicles. That's what SCAs DCAs are for.

 

Gassers benefit the same from a coolant filter.

[Gradyfest]

Just to wrap it up for any diesel owners unlcear about it all. (Coolant filters aside for a second.)

 

Owning a diesel cavitation happens within the water jackets along the cylinders no matter what.

 

Cavitation occurs because diesels have easily twice the compression as gassers. So much force that the piston walls actually expand within the strokes of combustion. On the other end in the coolant jackets little vacuum bubbles form when the metal shoots back to its formed original shape.

 

Think about when you shoot your hand under water in a pool and see bubbles. They are not air bubbles, they are vacuum bubbles.

 

So now when those vacuum bubbles pop along the metal they draw coolant back rapidly.

 

What's a main erosion factor? Water.

 

And I could always be wrong of course but as far as I've heard, read, self-educated myself about; all diesels cavitate.

 

 

Only two options:

 

1- Buy regular green but must be low silicate coolant AND add proper amount of SCAs according to test strips. Then just check and maintain levels with strips.

 

2- Fill with extended life coolant made for diesels and STILL check and maintain SCAs with test strips.

 

 

Supplement Coolant Additives and Diesel Coolant Addatives put a liner of protection on the metal that the vacuum bubbles eat at instead.

[Gradyfest]

I don't know how to post videos directly if someone wants to that'd be kool.

 

But here's a great visual on cavitation.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_7PtvziB-Q

[Gradyfest]

So after installing a new water pump I finished the job including a flush, on my 1996 F250 with a beast of a 7.5L 460 V-8 Gasser, with a coolant filter just like I described. This was all almost two years ago now.

 

I said something different earlier but I actually got it from dieselsite.com It was made for a 7.3 diesel but I noticed the only thing different with the kits was the bracket. So I picked one with what looked Iike the best bracket to modify for my needs.

 

 

I thought it was cheaper back then...

 

 

 

 

 

[Gradyfest]

Grab it where it comes from the engine bringing the hot coolant to the heater core, this is filter in.

 

 

 

 

[Gradyfest]

Back then I thought a straight shot would be best. I called dieselsite and talked to the main tech before buying to make sure it would apply to my 460 gasser not understanding what I do now, he said the "Ts" are just fine because of the different pressures.

 

I did it anyway. They are both just essentially bypasses (coolant filter and heater core.)

 

Thought I'd make filtering #1 and heat in the cab #2.

 

But like I I said, I don't think it matters. It only filters so much at a time anyways.

[Gradyfest]

The hose underneath is the return from the firewall and heater core back to the water pump sucking coolant back. This is the out of the filter housing.

 

[Gradyfest]

From there, in this application, I ran them down the radiator support internally to a spot on the frame by the bumper.

 

 

 

 

[Gradyfest]

I was able to put a big carriage bolt through an existing opening on the frame in a fashion that doesn't allow anything to rotate. I remember cutting and filing the square of the carriage bolt in the plate and a slot that it all slid into in the frame holding it all with just the carriage bolt and appropriate washers on the other end. All requiring a little fab to the mounting bracket that came in the kit of course.

 

 

 

 

[Gradyfest]

It's hard to tell by the photo but you can see the ball valves and then I got a 90 degree bent nipple and a straight one to put the hoses in the best spots. All hardware not in kit came from local hardware stores.

 

 

[thisismatt]

2wd? Have you changed you ibeam bushings yet?

[Gradyfest]

2wd? Have you changed you ibeam bushings yet?

This one's 4wd, Dana 50 up front.

 

Replaced EVERY bushing, polyurethane.

 

My shackle bushings up front were sitting on metal, split the rubber and leaned to one side dog tracking until I replaced. Raised the front a couple of inches afterwards. Something with the 7.3L and 7.5L being to heavy for the design of the Dana 50 and springs up front. I'm still close to bumper stops.

 

Heaviest leaf springs I've ever carried at the rear, has factory overloads.

 

The I beam axle pivot bushing was a bear, mostly because the weight of it all. But it was the biggest difference. On California highways in the fast lane I could really feel the slop in turns.

[datzenmike]

 

Cavitation occurs because diesels have easily twice the compression as gassers. So much force that the piston walls actually expand within the strokes of combustion. On the other end in the coolant jackets little vacuum bubbles form when the metal shoots back to its formed original shape.

 

Think about when you shoot your hand under water in a pool and see bubbles. They are not air bubbles, they are vacuum bubbles.

 

I'm going to have to say this is junk science that you heard. The high compression (gas or diesel) only happens near the top of the cylinder. It's nowhere near the pressure released when the cylinder actually fires. Sound good but....

 

In addition, the bubbles in water from splashing your hand is just air sucked in by the momentum of your hand. If you watch they don't disappear, they float up to the surface. You can't move your hand fast enough under water to cause cavitation. Try it. Dive under water and wave your hand around as fast as you can... no bubbles.

 

Cavitiation affects high speed propellers or water pumps that are over revved. There aren't many other places in a cooling system where things are moving so fast.

[thisismatt]

My 2wd went through the ibeam bushings, causing it to do the toe back-and-forth death wobble on the freeway. It felt like the front wheels were coming off. Shook so violently that it started to tear the mount in half.

[Gradyfest]

I'm going to have to say this is junk science that you heard. The high compression (gas or diesel) only happens near the top of the cylinder. It's nowhere near the pressure released when the cylinder actually fires. Sound good but....

 

In addition, the bubbles in water from splashing your hand is just air sucked in by the momentum of your hand. If you watch they don't disappear, they float up to the surface. You can't move your hand fast enough under water to cause cavitation. Try it. Dive under water and wave your hand around as fast as you can... no bubbles.

 

Cavitiation affects high speed propellers or water pumps that are over revved. There aren't many other places in a cooling system where things are moving so fast.

 

You're not saying cavitation doesn't happen, so we disagree on how it happens then.

 

I've looked it up more using search engines since and see other explanations of how people say it happens better then my hasty throw together.

 

I think it's a matter of understanding it first and then saying the right verbals for others to understand as well...

 

Here's some guys explanation better than mine copied right off thedieselstop.com

 

 

"Cavitation is a localized low pressure zone that forms adjacent to the outer wall of the cylinder. It is caused by by the flexing of the cylinder wall due to the high cylinder pressures experienced in diesel engine ignition. Gasoline engines don't typically get this failure mode due to lower cylinder pressures during ignition. Basically what happens is the cylinder wall quickly expands due to ignition then returns to its original geometry. This expansion of the cylinder wall is more pronounced as you increase the demand for power. Bascially when you increase your demand for power you are pumping more fuel into the cylinder. If you have a turbo charged unit you are also increasing air charge. This increase in fuel and air causes a more violent ignition which further increases cylinder pressures and thus increases the flexing of the cylinder wall. This fast cylinder wall movement causes a low pressure zone to be created in the coolant adjacent to the cylinder wall. When this pressure zone drops below the vapor pressure point (temperature, coolant ratio, and additive dependant) a vapor bubble is formed. When this low pressure zone returns to a high pressure zone, the vapor bubble collapses, causing an implosion, or pitting phenomena on the cylinder wall (like hitting the surface with a microscopic ball peen hammer). If left unchecked, it will eventually eat all the way through the cylinder wall."

 

 

 

I'm also about to research like hell and figure out this air bubble in the pool thing.

 

Because you saying one can "create air" in dense liquid water..? Has me mind blown... Why do people drown then?