OldSkool's 521 Thread...the Mad Idiots Journal.

[mrbigtanker]

Put it in already so I can order my set.

[oldskoolvws]

Link to leaf thread with pics: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/54215-au-rite-e-weve-talked-about-torsion-time-for-leafs/page-2?do=findComment&comment=908863

[erichwaslike]

i dont see a metal ash tray being posted anywhere in this thread as being installed......

 

hurry up :poke:

[jrock4224]

aw u lucky bastard...old skool

[oldskoolvws]

You bunch of impatient bastids....ashtray is soon. I got a few pics...

[Z chopper]

I didn't notice if you had a tiki head shift knob

[erichwaslike]

You bunch of impatient bastids....ashtray is soon. I got a few pics...

 

yet theres nothing posted.... why you holding out on us

[jrock4224]

yeah ....why u going all mr bigtanker ...fj 20,  no, l20, no, lz23, no, fj 20, no, sr , no, two stroke diesel,  no, fj , no, electric golf cart , no, fj ...awww yes fj,  on us ....bring the oics...lol

[Z chopper]

I am more interested in where the Tiki comes in

[jrock4224]

brady bunch season 3 ....

[mrbigtanker]

yeah ....why u going all mr bigtanker ...fj 20,  no, l20, no, lz23, no, fj 20, no, sr , no, two stroke diesel,  no, fj , no, electric golf cart , no, fj ...awww yes fj,  on us ....bring the oics...lol

Jrock you really crack me up,you make my day.Now were is my fucking oil pan that i dont need now since i got a FJ20.lol

[oldskoolvws]

yeah ....why u going all mr bigtanker ...fj 20,  no, l20, no, lz23, no, fj 20, no, sr , no, two stroke diesel,  no, fj , no, electric golf cart , no, fj ...awww yes fj,  on us ....bring the oics...lol

 

Kind of like a teenage girl trying to figure out what to wear for her first date hahaha.

 

 

Mailman came today, bringeth forth these and a few Corvette and 4x4 suspension parts for the 521. Whhoooooooooo that suspension is getting closer.

[mrbigtanker]

What cha doing,pu'pule.

[oldskoolvws]

Beef'n up da spension, oldskool kine.

 

Part of dis suspension build is to educate the newer generations how to do some oldskool tricks for serious performance and handling while being able to be a mini. This currently is the direction:

 

Front:

Mr. Klotz Z'd arms with minor mods.

NISMO 2-stage torsions

Cut / Add what needs to be cut / added for that altitude adjustment

ADDCO sway

All bushings / rubbers replaced.

 

Rears:

Belltech 720 Springs..yeah I know, put em' in already. I may add in a overload to assist in rebound.

Blocks as needed for the rear altitude adjustment

Pan hard bar and ADDCO sway.

C-Notch

SIngle piece driveshaft(?) gotta follow the boys on dis one I think.

 

4-Corners:

Monroe MA785 air shocks for Corvette

4x4 stem to hoop adapters (maybe)

And maybe one of two other tricks here and there.

 

The MA785 Air Shock is a very good choice for a few reasons.

- It is pretty much the shortest actual air shock you can find. The stroke is limited though so you need a tight suspension. I'll still need to do some extensions.

- It is a sport shock (Corvette, duh....actually larger shaft and better rebound)

- It has internal bump stops to prevent bottoming out blow outs

- Allows me to ride up comfortable and down show low and get in my driveway. Plan is to be biased 50/50 F/R. Small tank onboard, Slow acting system, kind of like Datsun would have made it.

- CHEAP. Both sets cost a little over $100

 

I'll start the rears so you guys can see my super success or catastrophic failure. I it works, do I get one of those really, really cool forum project reference names like "the Tiki leaf Mod" or "way damn slo Mod"?

[mrbigtanker]

Well i cant wait to see it.now get to work.

[erichwaslike]

 I it works, do I get one of those really, really cool forum project reference names like "the Tiki leaf Mod" or "way damn slo Mod"?

 

 

no...... no you dont.....

[jrock4224]

dont use those valves .....if your controling those air shocks ..... they way(air shocks..) there designed is for slo air transfer and using a electric solenoid will lead to premature failure......either use a manual valve like a shrader or use a 1/4 npt valve and slow it way down......way down.....solenoids provide rapid air transfer......no matter how slow or small ....being a long term minitrucker i have seen time and time again people try and circumvent the way and use air shocks in a similar way....it never ends up being a long term solution ....countless mini truckers have been left road side cause if this ......and i can tell u from my one experience in ten years with a air bag failure ... .once the bitch is unable to air up ... its a bitch to tow,  move work on ... fix ... diagnose....its just a bitch ... mine ended up requiring a friends rolll back about thirty two by fours,  a roll pan and removing my front valance and bumper... and about 4 hours of my evening...and that was just to get it off road side....i ended up fixing it on the roll back as getting it back off was gonna be the hard part which required tricky fork lifting and sketchy jack standage......as much money as your gonna spend doing it this way you could have four linked and bagged it twice.....plus air shocks have a designed ride quality that only is in the middle 1.5 inch of the stroke ... when u run it low or over full it will ride terrible.....trust me do it right ...... u will regret this plan of action with in a year..... seen many a minitruck head to the scraper from failed attempts at not doing adjustable suspension the right way...or at least stock floor bd frames built after this route was taken...

 

not being a dick just trying to save u the heart ache of once u get finished hating the result ..... more then driving around static dropped.....box the parts up and send them back this will not equate to what yor looking for

[jrock4224]

The biggest  problem u have is u are running spring rate through the leafs and torsions then u are also running a variable spring rate through air pressure.....those two things will counter act one another .....which will provide u with very very weird handling characteristics .......u will only have one sweet spot and even just that will not ride terribly good .......there are a plethora of reasons why not to do it this way .......I could get into all of the but this already seems ranty....i just don't want u to not wanna drive your truck ....if u want adjust-ability then go for adjust-ability but u cant run competing spring rates,   it will ride like a dolphin in a mud puddle in panic mode....

[erichwaslike]

i have to agree^^^^ just got static and drag it if it doenst make it.....

[oldskoolvws]

dont use those valves .....if your controling those air shocks ..... they way(air shocks..) there designed is for slo air transfer and using a electric solenoid will lead to premature failure......either use a manual valve like a shrader or use a 1/4 npt valve and slow it way down......way down.....solenoids provide rapid air transfer......no matter how slow or small ....being a long term minitrucker i have seen time and time again people try and circumvent the way and use air shocks in a similar way....it never ends up being a long term solution ....countless mini truckers have been left road side cause if this ......and i can tell u from my one experience in ten years with a air bag failure ... .once the bitch is unable to air up ... its a bitch to tow,  move work on ... fix ... diagnose....its just a bitch ... mine ended up requiring a friends rolll back about thirty two by fours,  a roll pan and removing my front valance and bumper... and about 4 hours of my evening...and that was just to get it off road side....i ended up fixing it on the roll back as getting it back off was gonna be the hard part which required tricky fork lifting and sketchy jack standage......as much money as your gonna spend doing it this way you could have four linked and bagged it twice.....plus air shocks have a designed ride quality that only is in the middle 1.5 inch of the stroke ... when u run it low or over full it will ride terrible.....trust me do it right ...... u will regret this plan of action with in a year..... seen many a minitruck head to the scraper from failed attempts at not doing adjustable suspension the right way...or at least stock floor bd frames built after this route was taken...

 

not being a dick just trying to save u the heart ache of once u get finished hating the result ..... more then driving around static dropped.....box the parts up and send them back this will not equate to what yor looking for

 

 

The biggest  problem u have is u are running spring rate through the leafs and torsions then u are also running a variable spring rate through air pressure.....those two things will counter act one another .....which will provide u with very very weird handling characteristics .......u will only have one sweet spot and even just that will not ride terribly good .......there are a plethora of reasons why not to do it this way .......I could get into all of the but this already seems ranty....i just don't want u to not wanna drive your truck ....if u want adjust-ability then go for adjust-ability but u cant run competing spring rates,   it will ride like a dolphin in a mud puddle in panic mode....

 

 

i have to agree^^^^ just got static and drag it if it doenst make it.....

 

First keep in mind, this will not be a ground pounder. It will be close, but drivable down (maybe, hard turns might be an issue). This is not an airbag bouncer. The travel on this from up to down vice versa, should take about 30 secs if I did my calc's right. This will be a driver, I want to hug some turns.

 

But I understand your point fella's and can understand your concerns.I do this for a living (industrial controls and vehicle performance testing) and can tell you, you are correct in flow and operation but I have already designed and ordered a few parts . I did not show everything in this equation, that's where the oldskool stuff comes in. I am an oldskool mini-trucker and have used similar setups like this and it will prove to be reliable if thought and designed right. Most failures I have seen are caused by poor design or substandard products or installation.

 

The key to this setup as Jrock stated is flow. Being 1/4" ports, the flow value is too high. Stroke these shocks at full pressure at 1/4" and eventually you'll blow out a bag. The shocks are rated at 20-150 PSI on a 1/8" feed line. There will be flow controls to minimize flow in both directions. Primarily on the down stroke or empty, there will be a set of set it and forget it throttle exhaust valves (already ordered). That's the simple one. For upstroke, I'm currently on the fence on what I want to do. I know for sure I will use orifice plates to restrict flow and most likely a locking throttle valve from SMC or Festo. I was thinking of implementing full digital MODBUS components for control but I would lose the oldskool feel and definitely give up a lot of reliability (more sensitive equipment to fail). Cost would be crazy too.

 

The beauty of this setup is that there are internal bumpstops in the shocks already. It won't leave you stranded. You may ride on stops, but you'll get home.

[oldskoolvws]

Don't forget as well, these are not "normal" airbags or "air springs". These are shocks with airbags that have rebound rates, etc that will work with the suspension. They are designed for height adjustments while retaining ride and handling characteristics. This is why these particular Corvette shocks were chosen. Not all air shocks are designed this way from Monroe or Gabriel. You have to do the homework carefully. If I was looking only for ride height, I would have just slapped in some bags like everyone else and kept an external shock. I think I have 3 sets on my shelf.

 

This is good conversation for those looking for answers later.

[skyblue]

damn you guys are getting all Bill Nye the science guy with it. Trying to follow, but all these terms are way over my head. either way i get the gist of it. looking forward to seeing it all in action.

[mrbigtanker]

So what i get out of all this cuz,is you going put blocks in the back and crank down your torsion bars[re-index]. :rofl:

[oldskoolvws]

Yup, torsions and blocks.

 

It will be done this summer...all of it, or I'm getting rid of the damn truck :poop:

[mrbigtanker]

no your not.