swaped vins !!!

[77/620RaTsooN]

i swaped my vins from a 73 620 single to a 77 king not sure if its gonna work. made it look factory though so maybe.?

[kiznook]

you are a bad bad person :D

[datzenmike]

They made it easy on some with philips screws, others with plastic 'rivets'. Maybe only a ratsun would notice.

[Z-train]

This is not something you should be announcing on the internet.

[OL YELLER]

There is a '73 620 on Ebay for sale...BUT...the guy says and shows that it is a KING CAB...sitting on a Long Bed Frame...says it is registered as a '73...go figure...(Oh and it's a good lookin truck too!...) (but I think the reserve is over 3500 bucks)

[datsun dreamer]

Hey ron I saw that '73 too.....I think the guy may have made an error or "typo"...Did they make a kingcab in '73? Even my wife said "I don't think so!".LOL!!! Z-train...I'm saying the same thing!

[Bleach]

There is a '73 620 on Ebay for sale...BUT...the guy says and shows that it is a KING CAB...

something like that might be what happend to my stolen kingcab :o

[datsunaholic]

It works until you get a VIN inspection. Those little plates aren't the only VIN, and they don't even really have to be there. It's the one on the FRAME that counts. I've replaced the cab on a truck, so I swapped the dataplates, but the VIN follows the frame.

 

I've had a VIN inspection (several times, in fact, when I bought out-of-State vehicles or did a type conversion). The State Patrol folks KNOW where to look. A few years ago someone on a Datsun board lost his truck he had for years, had fixed up, and thought he had clear title when he got pulled over and State Trooper checked the VIN and it didn't match the registration. In fact, came up stolen.

 

All it takes is ONE observant cop who knows that KC's weren't built in '73. Or if you ever properly dispose of the '73 frame the scrapper will report the vehicle destroyed... using the permanent VIN. That'll trip a red flag if you try to register it.

[hang_510]

yeah im going through this VIN inspection right now. HUGE hassle!

i now its not stolen etc...just been out of the system for 10 years.

have to go through the CHP to do the inspection.

if they found it to be altered etc, say buh-bye to the vehicle! :eek:

[datzenmike]

Hmm. I have an '82 frame from a wreckers, just the frame. Maybe I should grind the #s off??? It was a rolled long bed. I know the wreckers and don't think they record the dash numbers when crushing them. Maybe?

[datsunaholic]

Mike, you're also in Canada. I don't know if they're more/less lax. In the US they are required to record every vehicle they crush by VIN, because it's the only way to prevent stolen cars from being turned in without papers for scrap metal. Wrecking yards here have lost their business licenses for not recording destructions properly.

 

Grinding the numbers off would be even more suspicious. That is a huge red flag that instantly yells "stolen". By the late 60s all vehicles were required to have the etched VIN in a common location, and that location is well known to the inspectors. By the 80s the VIN had to be in multiple locations, and by the 1990s every major part had to have the VIN on it (to track stolen parts).

 

In the US a frame swap IS legal, BUT... you have to have it inspected so they can record the VIN variation. That means having recipts for all parts and the reason for the swap. I've known a few offroaders that have done it- had really good K5 blazer bodies (which are hard to come by due to wheel arch rust) but bent or broke the frame out wheeling. They got a junkyard frame, but it has a different VIN. The State Patrol inspected the vehicle, and replaced the VIN plate as well as added a VIN plate to the frame near the old VIN to record that the VIN was altered. Same thing applies to tube-frame conversions.

 

But I get the feeling that RatSoon's reason for swapping VINs is less honest. It's one of 2 things (or a combo of both): He has a '77 KC with no title, and/or he's trying to get out of the Portland DEQ requirement for vehicles 1975 and newer. A '73 is exempt, a '77 is not. Either way, it's illegal.

[spiffinspudater]

Technically the frame swap is legal and if he keeps the engine from the 73 (matching numbers?) and just puts the body on it and makes sure to go through the frame swap process by registering both parts then the law would be on his side. I thought about doing the same with my truck but then talked myself out of it.

[OL YELLER]

It works until you get a VIN inspection. Those little plates aren't the only VIN, and they don't even really have to be there. It's the one on the FRAME that counts. I've replaced the cab on a truck, so I swapped the dataplates, but the VIN follows the frame.

 

I've had a VIN inspection (several times, in fact, when I bought out-of-State vehicles or did a type conversion). The State Patrol folks KNOW where to look. A few years ago someone on a Datsun board lost his truck he had for years, had fixed up, and thought he had clear title when he got pulled over and State Trooper checked the VIN and it didn't match the registration. In fact, came up stolen.

 

All it takes is ONE observant cop who knows that KC's weren't built in '73. Or if you ever properly dispose of the '73 frame the scrapper will report the vehicle destroyed... using the permanent VIN. That'll trip a red flag if you try to register it.

 

Doug, would it be possible to put something together like that..lets say a srapped 73 Long Bed that you bought from the scrap yard as a totaled auto..then put another scrapped body on that frame.(same as this guy did) and then register it as a special construction something or other...Similar to what you would have to go thru in building a roadster from scratch (like a 32 Ford) or something like that...just wondering maybe that is how ya do it and then the DMV issues you a new vin tag...rivited to the frame in the location of the old vin#........(I would certainly NOT recommend "grinding the numbers off"..as Doug said it would only take one Police official with the correct knowledge to get you in deep trouble...To the point of having someone named "Bubba" claim you as his personal companion in the local jailhouse...ha ha)

[datzenmike]

Those are good points Doug. Well if it ever comes up at least the frame isn't stolen. I don't think the 620 dash had a VIN sticker but my replacement one sure does... for an '85? I think. Don't plan to sell it, but good to know, and I will check a few things if I ever do just so there's no trouble for the new owner. My truck, nor anything on it is not stolen, I just want to drive it and be left alone.

 

I am curious about the wreckers, they may check the VIN but there's no way they check the frame #. I'll ask.

 

Oh yeah, where is the frame no. ?

[datzenmike]

Those are good points Doug. Well if it ever comes up at least the frame isn't stolen. I don't think the 620 dash had a VIN sticker but my replacement one sure does... for an '85? I think. Don't plan to sell it, but good to know, and I will check a few things if I ever do just so there's no trouble for the new owner. My truck, nor anything on it is not stolen, I just want to drive it and be left alone.

 

I'll check the wreckers and see what they do before they go on the lot.

[flyerdan]

When I hauled a Toyota wagon off to the scrappers last month they never took the title. Didn't check any numbers either, just picked it up with a 966, I pulled my wheels off, he booked it over to the claw crane which chucked it into the baler. I've got three extra titles in my title folder.

[datsunaholic]

Doug, would it be possible to put something together like that..lets say a srapped 73 Long Bed that you bought from the scrap yard as a totaled auto..then put another scrapped body on that frame.(same as this guy did) and then register it as a special construction something or other...

 

Problem #1 is there's no such thing as a '73 longbed... Longbeds showed up in the US in '75. But that's immaterial.

 

Any time you pull a vehicle from a wrecker and attempt to make it streetworthy it's going to have to be inspected because there's no title. The inspections HERE in WA are the same for a salvage vehicle, whether or not it ever was in a wrecker. You have to have chain-of-custody paperwork for every part replaced. If you were building a vehicle completely from junk parts, they're going to use the most permanent VIN existant unless they determine the vehicle requires an entirely new VIN. In fact, a junkyard here would be required to sell the frame with the VIN printed on the receipt. Major parts are required to have at a minimum an identifying number on them at junkyards- usually the yard vehicle number. I go to a yard that doesn't inventory ANY parts, but every major part has to be marked with the yard number anyway, which is then printed on the receipt.

 

That's a big gotcha- you show up with a '73 frame, but a '78 engine and a bunch of '78 body panels (per the paperwork) they'll issue you a NEW VIN with '78 model year. They want to make it as "new" as possible. Now, if you had a clear title for a '73 and you were to use that cab and the majority of the '73 parts, you MIGHT be able to get away with a "frame swap". But a King Cab? Nuh-uh. You've just changed vehicle types, payload, wheelbase, a whole bunch of things. When Bleach "built" the departed Bluestreak he used a jumble of parts- '73 bed, '76 doors, JDM L18 engine, but the cab and frame were '78 and it remained a '78 truck. He did nothing wrong (well, other than scrapping 3 perfectly good trucks into one beat up King Cab but that's another story).

 

For "Special Construction" basically you can't have any original identifyable parts. It'd be titled as a "reproduction". If you have an original frame though it isn't. Or, at least some identifyable part. That's how you see 5 AC Cobras, all listed as "original" (nor reproduction), all with the SAME VIN. All have one identifyable, serialized part of the original, destroyed car.

 

One of our museum volunteers has a '50s Packard. But the only thing Packard is the body. The frame, engine, and entire drivetrain is an '89 Pathfinder. Guess what his paperwork says it is. An '89 Custom, using the Pathfinder's VIN. The paperwork is branded as a rebuild/custom body.

 

I had a Motorhome once. It was listed as a 1971 Wilderness motorhome. All it was was a 1971 Ford F250 with a Wilderness slide-in camper, BOLTED to the bed (to make it "permanently attached"). It used the F250's VIN. Had all the proper paperwork, signed and tagged by the State Patrol. Absolutely legal. I got harassed constantly by cops who wondered why I had car plates on a truck, and no camper plate on the slide-in. Showed them the paperwork, they ran the numbers, came back OK, but it got plain tiring so I ended up going through inspection to get the title split (costing me WAY more per year to register both, with the GVW fee on the F250). Inspectors said it should never have been allowed in the first place.

[datsunaholic]

When I hauled a Toyota wagon off to the scrappers last month they never took the title. Didn't check any numbers either, just picked it up with a 966, I pulled my wheels off, he booked it over to the claw crane which chucked it into the baler. I've got three extra titles in my title folder.

 

If they were anywhere BUT Oregon and if the State dept of licensing found out they were doing that, they'd be out of business faster than you can say "Revocation". Oregon is far more lax than any other West Coast State. When I was trying to title a truck I had lost the title (not in my name, and I didn't know whos name it was in) the "Title Acquiring Service" all said they'd have to wash it through Oregon. Or Georgia. You don't even need titles for cars over 25 years old in Georgia. It's a federal law, but it's up to the States to enforce.

 

Here in WA they'll set up stings on yards that are suspected of not inspecting VINs. They'll haul a real mess of a clunker in with bogus paperwork, and if the yard takes the car and doesn't catch the discrepancy, their license is revoked. Quick. But due to lack of money those stings don't happen often, and then only with the ones with a lot of complaints. Last one we saw hit the news, they threw the owner in jail and deported half the employees (they found them dumping oil in the river, a half dozen reported stolen cars on site, no paperwork for half the rest, no crush records on cars they had baled up, just to name some of the stuff).

[Z-train]

Same with Az.I've scrapped two 620s recently cut up the cabs & frames & stuffed them into my wifes F-150 and off to the scrapper.Never said a word to meThey looked in the bed just to make sure of no HAZ-MAT and that was it.In fact i'm cutting up a frame tomorrow and hauling it down.

[datsunaholic]

Well, once you've cut 'em up it doesn't really matter. I've even done that here. The metal yard basically said as long as there weren't any VINs....

[RacnJsn95]

Huh... Thank god I live in Oregon. All the scrappers here where I live want the title if there is a complete CAB. I've only registered one car from out of state, and they just checked the door tag, and the vin on the dash. Didn't look at the vin on the firewall, or the frame, or anything else.

[OL YELLER]

Well now....thanx for the information Doug, got quite a lesson there..Just got me thinkin was all..come to think of it...I registered Ol Yeller as a "lost title" in 2003....My son had a friend that did all the DMV stuff for their shop on the dirt bikes they repair/rebuild/restore and she just met me at the DMV with my paperwork and the truck...they "looked it over/insoected it" said OK give us 56 bucks here is your title and registration and have a nice day...but then again my truck is just a generic 73 Datsun pickup....

[Bleach]

He did nothing wrong (well, other than scrapping 3 perfectly good trucks into one beat up King Cab but that's another story).

those other trucks were crap. This is what you call a beat up kingcab? I won 1st place at Canby with that thing :D

 

 

 

It was very straight. The original kingcab was beat to hell and not running... I bought it as a 'parts car'. Looks a lot better when I was done

 

THIS is a beat up Kingcab... how it all began

[datsunaholic]

Just giving you a hard time. Kind of- the blue longbed was pretty straight until the bed got bent. Well, it went into more than one so I can't complain. The green one looked good with a blurry camera. Then I saw it up close...

[pope_face]

Lot of good points here... I just realized that if I swap out the engine in my truck I'll have to get it inspected and apply for a different registration... at least when I do that I can get it appraised (apparently I'm supposed to anyways), so in case the unmentionable happens (knock on wood) I can get back more than the $500 on the registration transfer form...

 

But, to add a little story to everyone else's... When I bought my truck, I had to drive quite a way to get it... it was over an hour in each direction, plus an hour long ferry trip... not including ferry wait time. So, when I went to see it the first time (I hadn't even seen pictures of it, just talked to the guy about it) I was already pretty set on getting it. I got out there, fell in love, had the guy drive me around, and decided on a price. He had his paperwork all filled out, so he gave it to me so I could drive out to the insurance place and get the registration switched over. It was about a fifteen minute drive to the insurance place, so I went out there (with my cousin, who was going to drive the Datsun back while I drove my DD) and went in... turns out I forgot my driver's license, so I had to go back and get it, but I asked them if all the paperwork was filled out alright, and they told me it was all set, I just needed my DL for ID. So, back to the guy, gave him the cash, and took both cars back to the insurance place. It was empty in there, and there was two people at the desks, so one of them transfered the registration to me while the other set up the paperwork for the temporary plates. I got the registration done, and the other one starts finishing the paperwork for the temp insurance... then stops and looks at me... and says to me "Are you aware that this is a salvage vehicle?"

 

I didn't know what to do... I couldn't insure a salvage vehicle, and so couldn't get it back to my place... plus, I'd have to get it inspected before I could even think of putting it on the road, and if it was salvaged it would likely mean there could be a hell of a lot wrong with it...

 

Fortunately, the other lady (the one who had transfered the regs) realized something was up and checked the paperwork... turns out the second lady had made a typo on one number...

 

That was my one (and hopefully only) encounter with... The VIN From The Dark Side!

 

And as an aside... quick reply isn't necessarily as quick as the name suggests...